The Iran War

Response withdrawn.

I didn't mean to cause any great offense Cheeze, I guess it was a slightly exasperated dig more than anything

Frenemies?

No problem Jack Malleus--I was probably over-reacting anyway based on prior events, so my bad, too.

I just think we should be honest about it and say that "terrorism" is defined as actions that the otherwise powerless take against us that we simply don't like.

Protesting in Zucatti Park? Terrorism
Sitting at a whites only lunch counter? Terrorism
Marching to the sea to gather salt? Terrorism

Training and supplying an airline bomber? Not terrorism.

Yes, we should be honest about what it really means -- and then change it.

Iranian government delivers a letter to the Swiss embassy claiming they have evidence that the recent bombing was orchestrated by the CIA. Unfortunately the story has zero details on what that evidence might be.

Aetius wrote:

Unfortunately the story has zero details on what that evidence might be.

Iran denies the holocaust ever happen . I'm sure they'll find some kind of evidence which links the CIA.

The was a travel warning for Bangkok this weekend and the Thai government managed to catch one Hizbollah operative out of two. I'm not sure if Iran told them to do it or they just likes blowing up things all over the world. Iran was linked to the Argentina bombing (85 dead 300 injured) .I'm not sure if they are involved this time .

The amount of economic pressure put on Iran are sort of "maxed" now. The next step (probably next year) would probobally be a lengthy war with a lot of casualties on all sides.

CheezePavilion wrote:

My understanding is that a nuclear weapons program isn't just some high school chemistry teacher's meth lab. You can't just go find another scientist. There are a limited number of these kinds of scientists.

An interesting bit of related news from Iran today:

ABC News[/url]]Approximately 1,300 Iranian university students have applied to switch their majors to the field of nuclear sciences following the assassination of a top nuclear expert in Iran, a government official reportedly said late Monday.

An interesting bit of related news from Iran today:

ABC News[/url]]Approximately 1,300 Iranian university students have applied to switch their majors to the field of nuclear sciences following the assassination of a top nuclear expert in Iran, a government official reportedly said late Monday.

a government official reportedly said

I think that pretty much sums up the whole story.

Bear wrote:

I think that pretty much sums up the whole story.

So you honestly think that the entire story is fake? That no Iranian college student might get a bit patriotic and switch their major in response to blatant attacks on their country and on a program that the US is so clearly afraid of?

I'm with OG, while you should be skeptical of what Iranian (and other government, increasingly our own) officials say, this claim totally passes the sniff test. 1300 students isn't even that much.

The Guardian has a story today on the mess the United States left behind in Iraq. Trouble is coming in Iraq, and Iran will likely be involved, further complicating the situation.

Endemic corruption in Iraq has created a new industry in which senior security service officers buy their authority over particular neighbourhoods by bribing politicians, junior officers pay their seniors monthly stipends and everyone gets a return on their investment by extorting money from the families of detainees.
"The commandos surrounded the area and took us," said Yassir. "There were Americans there who took our pictures. They moved us to the ministry of the interior, where they separated the people who were photographed by the Americans from those who weren't." Being photographed is why he survived at the height of the sectarian killing, Yassir explained.
"Corruption has reached the head," said the officer who introduced us to Rafic and who worked with him. "From top to bottom, everyone is rotten."
In the meantime, people were trying to work out ways to protect themselves. "Really bad days are about to come. Since the Americans left, everyone is looking for a gun."
OG_slinger wrote:

So you honestly think that the entire story is fake? That no Iranian college student might get a bit patriotic and switch their major in response to blatant attacks on their country and on a program that the US is so clearly afraid of?

Yeah, I think it's blatantly fake. Sure a few may have switched but 1,500? The quote doesn't even say "an official said", it says "reportedly" said. But yeah, I have a hard time believe that 1,500 college students suddenly decided to switch their majors into one of the most academically challenging programs in science. Odd that they just had a few dozen universities worth of space for angry students.

Bear wrote:

Yeah, I think it's blatantly fake. Sure a few may have switched but 1,500? The quote doesn't even say "an official said", it says "reportedly" said. But yeah, I have a hard time believe that 1,500 college students suddenly decided to switch their majors into one of the most academically challenging programs in science. Odd that they just had a few dozen universities worth of space for angry students.

Each to their own, Bear. Considering we had a bunch of angry students join the military after 9/11, it's really not a stretch to say that a tiny fraction of Iran's 3.5 million college students decided to support their country's nuclear program after it was attacked.

Perhaps ABC News said "reportedly" because they don't actually have any reporters in Iran and wanted to cover their ass.

The statement was made at a press conference by Iran's Minister of Science, Research, and Technology and backed up by a university official at the Iranian equivalent of MIT. And since the Iranian government runs the science and technical universities I'm pretty sure they'd eagerly expand classes and dump as much resources as they could to educate hundreds of nuclear scientists.

Either way it shows the absolute stupidity of trying to stop the Iranian nuclear program by killing scientists. More will just step up to replace them and they will burn with the desire for revenge on the only two countries likely involved: Israel and the US.

OG_slinger wrote:
Bear wrote:

Yeah, I think it's blatantly fake. Sure a few may have switched but 1,500? The quote doesn't even say "an official said", it says "reportedly" said. But yeah, I have a hard time believe that 1,500 college students suddenly decided to switch their majors into one of the most academically challenging programs in science. Odd that they just had a few dozen universities worth of space for angry students.

Each to their own, Bear. Considering we had a bunch of angry students join the military after 9/11, it's really not a stretch to say that a tiny fraction of Iran's 3.5 million college students decided to support their country's nuclear program after it was attacked.

Perhaps ABC News said "reportedly" because they don't actually have any reporters in Iran and wanted to cover their ass.

The statement was made at a press conference by Iran's Minister of Science, Research, and Technology and backed up by a university official at the Iranian equivalent of MIT. And since the Iranian government runs the science and technical universities I'm pretty sure they'd eagerly expand classes and dump as much resources as they could to educate hundreds of nuclear scientists.

Either way it shows the absolute stupidity of trying to stop the Iranian nuclear program by killing scientists. More will just step up to replace them and they will burn with the desire for revenge on the only two countries likely involved: Israel and the US.

I tend to agree that this passes the sniff test. The Iranians have wanted a bomb since the 1950's and had they not had that whole business with the Shah being overthrown, they'd probably have a nice tidy arsenal of them today. If anything, the prospect of a nuclear Iran seems to be as close to universally popular among Iranians of every political persuasion. Even folks who despise the Islamists seem solidly committed to an Iran as nuclear sovereign. If anything, the 1200 figure seems a little low.

IIRC, during the Iran-Iraq war, Iran was badly outgunned, but they held on through 'human wave' attacks... just throwing willing volunteers at the enemy by the tens of thousands. They knew an awful lot of them were going to die, and they signed up and went anyway. We actually had to sell Iraq a whole bunch of weapons to fight the war it started, because we were afraid our boy Saddam might lose. I think Iran even took some territory from Iraq in that conflict, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

From what little I know of them, the first word to be used when describing Iranians is 'patriotic'. No matter how much they may hate the government, and so very many of them do, in the presence of an outside threat, they'll unify to an astonishing degree, and fight with incredible morale.

So, yeah. This totally passes the smell test. Probably just about everyone that thought they might qualify applied to the program.

edit: plus, I don't think their economy is too hot, what with all the sanctions, and the students might simply want paying work, whatever the field.

Malor wrote:

I think Iran even took some territory from Iraq in that conflict, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

They did, but withdrew when the war ended.

As much as we Americans despise our own government (and let's face it, that is pretty much the gripe of choice for just about every American get together these days) things would have to get all manner of crazy f*ed up for us to welcome the invasion of a foreign military power. And the Iranians properly gauge the situation such that failure to obtain a working nuclear weapon and delivery system will, without hesitation, result in exactly that kind of invasion the very moment America gets around to putting another George W. Bush in the White House.

And as counterintuitive as it may sound, I actually think that should Iran successfully test a nuclear device, it would actually have a stabilizing effect on the Middle East because it would remove options that we hint at for political expediency that are, in actuality, deeply self destructive.

Paleocon wrote:

As much as we Americans despise our own government (and let's face it, that is pretty much the gripe of choice for just about every American get together these days) things would have to get all manner of crazy f*ed up for us to welcome the invasion of a foreign military power. And the Iranians properly gauge the situation such that failure to obtain a working nuclear weapon and delivery system will, without hesitation, result in exactly that kind of invasion the very moment America gets around to putting another George W. Bush in the White House.

And as counterintuitive as it may sound, I actually think that should Iran successfully test a nuclear device, it would actually have a stabilizing effect on the Middle East because it would remove options that we hint at for political expediency that are, in actuality, deeply self destructive.

I agree. Ideally you'd love to wipe nuclear weapons off the face of the planet. Ideally. But the more you think about it the more you realize that MAD, while literally insane, is often times the only thing that prevents an all-out hot war between countries.

Nevermind the whole thing about why it's okay for Israel to have them and threaten their neighbors, but their neighbors aren't allowed to defend themselves.

Aetius wrote:

Iranian government delivers a letter to the Swiss embassy claiming they have evidence that the recent bombing was orchestrated by the CIA. Unfortunately the story has zero details on what that evidence might be.

There is also this little gem, which unfortunately passes the "smell test" quite nicely: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...

Atras wrote:
Aetius wrote:

Iranian government delivers a letter to the Swiss embassy claiming they have evidence that the recent bombing was orchestrated by the CIA. Unfortunately the story has zero details on what that evidence might be.

There is also this little gem, which unfortunately passes the "smell test" quite nicely: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...

Jeez. We should cut off Israel.

Aetius wrote:

Heheheh.

It should be clarified that it's not the Iranian government that's doing this, but rather an Iranian toy company.

In other words, it's part of a promotional campaign to make some entrepreneurial Iranians rich rather than the Iranian government giving Uncle Sam and every red-blooded American the raspberry.

OG_slinger wrote:
Aetius wrote:

Heheheh.

It should be clarified that it's not the Iranian government that's doing this, but rather an Iranian toy company.

In other words, it's part of a promotional campaign to make some entrepreneurial Iranians rich rather than the Iranian government giving Uncle Sam and every red-blooded American the raspberry.

If it wasn't for the embargo, I would be sorely tempted to purchase one myself.

Paleocon wrote:

If it wasn't for the embargo, I would be sorely tempted to purchase one myself.

What? You want to end up on the TSA no-fly list?

OG_slinger wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

If it wasn't for the embargo, I would be sorely tempted to purchase one myself.

What? You want to end up on the TSA no-fly list?

Dude, I said "if it wasn't for the embargo". That's like the TSA equivalent of "no homo".

Paleocon wrote:

That's like the TSA equivalent of "no homo".

So does your wife know?

Dude, I want a toy drone! Unfortunately I really do fear that buying one would have consequences for me.

Hmm, maybe us paranoid Police State believers could go through one of the goodjers that isn't as concerned with three letter agencies?

(I am being completely serious by the way).

OG_slinger wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

That's like the TSA equivalent of "no homo".

So does your wife know?

She respects the pillow of heterosexuality.

Atras wrote:
Aetius wrote:

Iranian government delivers a letter to the Swiss embassy claiming they have evidence that the recent bombing was orchestrated by the CIA. Unfortunately the story has zero details on what that evidence might be.

There is also this little gem, which unfortunately passes the "smell test" quite nicely: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...

The more I think of this, the more it reminds me of this.

Paleocon wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

If it wasn't for the embargo, I would be sorely tempted to purchase one myself.

What? You want to end up on the TSA no-fly list?

Dude, I said "if it wasn't for the embargo". That's like the TSA equivalent of "no homo".

The TSA hasn't instituted thoughtcrime, yet?