Why is the NYPD after me?

The magic happens about a minute in.

That was ballsy to do that in front of their own cruiser cam.

We get that around here as well. Pretty much everyone I know on bpd lives out in the county. And most of them see the city like a war zone rather than a place where anyone lives or works.

Disappointed in the thread title. I thought this would be some epic post about Malor vs. The NYPD.

OG_slinger wrote:

The magic happens about a minute in.

The Utica police department has been a corrupt bag of douche nozzles for generations.

I'm not making excuses for a bunch of racist dirtbag cops but citing the Utica PD is like accusing the KKK of being racist.

There's over 800,000 individuals involved in law enforcement professions. I'm guessing the majority of them aren't racist dirtbags.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

These stats must be for NYPD as a whole. There is a huge administrative apparatus, where minorities are probably represented better. The racial breakdown of actual patrolmen, however, is probably different.

According to this article, the majority of NYPD officers are now other than white.

The big strides in accomplishing diversity are a credit to Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly. He believed that diversity would help the department in all areas. And, because of a large number of retirements after he took over in 2002, Kelly had an opportunity to hire many officers. By the end of 2006, whites had fallen to just 49.9 percent of the department and the percentages for Hispanics, blacks and Asians were increasing steadily.

We have learned that the new demographics in the department have been accomplished gradually by encouraging young people in the black and Latino communities to go into police work. It’s been a slow process. It’s taken years. But now the composition of the department more closely reflects the general population.

Bear wrote:

I'm guessing the majority of them aren't racist dirtbags.

So what's the magic number before it becomes a concern? 15%? 25%? 49%?

OG_slinger wrote:
Bear wrote:

I'm guessing the majority of them aren't racist dirtbags.

So what's the magic number before it becomes a concern? 15%? 25%? 49%?

I don't know, what's the number that have to be racists before we label all of them racists? 2%, 4%, 10%?

Any number of racist police officers is a concern that needs to be addressed. The non-racist cops make hundreds of thousand of stops and arrests annually yet you usually never hear about it. Well, the only time you do is when they get blown away trying to do their jobs. That happened 173 times last year yet I don't see people raging on these forums about the fact that the number of police officers killed in the line of duty increased by 13% last year.

This is why it's called institutional racism. If 100% of the force is 2% racist, or 2% of the force is 100% racist, those are both '2% racist', but the results will be much different.

Spoiler:

I really hope my math is right

oh wait.. I misread the post totally. Sorry, ignore.

CheezePavillion, I'm sorry I questioned your mathematical deductions!

Bear wrote:

I don't know, what's the number that have to be racists before we label all of them racists? 2%, 4%, 10%?

If they aren't immediately drummed out of the service and/or prosecuted? One. Any organization that tolerates racists in their ranks *is* racist.

Bear wrote:

That happened 173 times last year yet I don't see people raging on these forums about the fact that the number of police officers killed in the line of duty increased by 13% last year.

No. That's 173 officers who *died* in the line of duty. Half of those deaths were traffic accidents. So that's 173 out of 800,000 or 0.021625% of all law enforcement personnel. Am I really supposed to get worked up over the fact that people who chose to be cops die on the job at a rate that is statistically closer to zero than it is a number that should cause any real concern?

I'm going to take a guess that police killed more civilians than that last year. I can't prove it since Congress stopped mandating the collection of that data back in 1995, but I'd imagine that every decent sized city has at least one incident a year. Layer on that all the false arrests, assaults, excessive use of force, illegal searches, pepper spraying, etc. the police so clearly do and cops look a hell of a lot more like bullies than officers of the peace.

How men and women can even be a cop in NY without developing PTSD and multiple other emotional and psychological disorders is beyond me. I mean, with the junk these people have to put up with on a daily basis from people who aren't remotely interested in keeping the law, it would seem extremely hard to stay positive and cordial with everyone you interacted with. This by no means is justification for power abusing racist officers, but it would seem that many times when people criticize on a sweeping generalist level it is easy to forget the environments that city cops spend most of their work days in.

OG_slinger wrote:

If they aren't immediately drummed out of the service and/or prosecuted? One. Any organization that tolerates racists in their ranks *is* racist.

I agree with your zero tolerance philosophy but it's unrealistic. I'm confident that there are a large number of organizations have racists in their ranks. I'm positive you have some where you work. The difference is, they're closet racists and aren't able to project power in any meaningful way. Then again, there are companies that have engaged in all kinds of discriminatory practices, it's just not as overt.

OG_slinger wrote:

No. That's 173 officers who *died* in the line of duty. Half of those deaths were traffic accidents. So that's 173 out of 800,000 or 0.021625% of all law enforcement personnel. Am I really supposed to get worked up over the fact that people who chose to be cops die on the job at a rate that is statistically closer to zero than it is a number that should cause any real concern?

I wonder how many of the traffic accident deaths happened as a result of a pursuit or an attempted apprehension?

Personally, I think anyone being killed while trying to do their job is unfortunate and I'm sure the widows and children of those officers that were killed think it's a cause for concern. I'm not sure I understand the logic that because some cops are racist assholes it's ok if others are blown away because its not statistically significant.

Bear wrote:

Personally, I think anyone being killed while trying to do their job is unfortunate and I'm sure the widows and children of those officers that were killed thinks it's a cause for concern. I'm not sure I understand the logic that some cops are racist assholes it's ok if others are blown away because its not statistically significant.

I don't think that's the point being made. You don't see people raging about cops that die because rage isn't the appropriate response. That's a sad and unfortunate event. Racism is not unfortunate and incites rage. Different responses to different situations and not sure why they're even being discussed together.

I think (if I understand you right) your point was mostly that we only focus on the negative police actions and we don't keep it in perspective against (and appreciate) all of the positive things they do all day long. That's totally valid but it's also just not really worth talking about. It's rarely conversation worthy that someone did their job well and wasn't racist while they did it.

gregrampage wrote:

I think (if I understand you right) your point was mostly that we only focus on the negative police actions and we don't keep it in perspective against (and appreciate) all of the positive things they do all day long. That's totally valid but it's also just not really worth talking about. It's rarely conversation worthy that someone did their job well and wasn't racist while they did it.

Just as we can't focus on the positive, we shouldn't act as if a few assholes represent the majority of police officers in this county. Yet lately in these forums we seem to be on a roll of "all police are evil racist freedom hating peppers spraying assholes.

Bear wrote:
gregrampage wrote:

I think (if I understand you right) your point was mostly that we only focus on the negative police actions and we don't keep it in perspective against (and appreciate) all of the positive things they do all day long. That's totally valid but it's also just not really worth talking about. It's rarely conversation worthy that someone did their job well and wasn't racist while they did it.

Just as we can't focus on the positive, we shouldn't act as if a few assholes represent the majority of police officers in this county. Yet lately in these forums we seem to be on a roll of "all police are evil racist freedom hating peppers spraying assholes.

Agreed, but are people really saying all cops are racist (or assholes) or are they saying that racism is an institutional problem in the police force? Maybe I skimmed some of the more condemning posts but I haven't had the same impression you have.

Nomad wrote:

How men and women can even be a cop in NY without developing PTSD and multiple other emotional and psychological disorders is beyond me. I mean, with the junk these people have to put up with on a daily basis from people who aren't remotely interested in keeping the law, it would seem extremely hard to stay positive and cordial with everyone you interacted with. This by no means is justification for power abusing racist officers, but it would seem that many times when people criticize on a sweeping generalist level it is easy to forget the environments that city cops spend most of their work days in.

Is it really that bad being a cop in NYC these days? Haven't a lot of the crackheads been gentrified out of the neighborhoods by even skinnier people in ironic t-shirts who have brass knuckle tattoos instead of actual brass knuckles?

CheezePavilion wrote:

This is why it's called institutional racism. If 100% of the force is 2% racist, or 2% of the force is 100% racist, those are both '2% racist', but the results will be much different.

I think this is a much more worthwhile discussion than "how many are racist?" Racism isn't a binary thing and is often unintentional. And quite frequently apparent racism isn't the result of an individual acting maliciously against a race, but rater the result of the way a system is set up.

Bear wrote:

I agree with your zero tolerance philosophy but it's unrealistic. I'm confident that there are a large number of organizations have racists in their ranks. I'm positive you have some where you work. The difference is, they're closet racists and aren't able to project power in any meaningful way. Then again, there are companies that have engaged in all kinds of discriminatory practices, it's just not as overt.

I don't care if it's unrealistic or not. I simply expect higher standards from the people who we entrust to uphold the law and protect average citizens from the bad guys. I agree that there are likely people I work with who are racist. The difference is they can't arrest me on trumped up charges, plant evidence on me, or shoot me and get away with it.

Bear wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the logic that because some cops are racist assholes it's ok if others are blown away because its not statistically significant.

You're the one that brought up the number of cops who got killed in the line of duty. I never said it was OK they died because some cops were racist, I merely pointed out that the number of cops that died was, statistically speaking, much closer to zero than a real number. In other words, it's not actually a serious problem. It's not like we live in Iraq where police have died by the thousands. There it's a problem.

HEYOOOOO!

Here’s a pretty clear example of the “Just sprinkle some crack on him” philosophy of police work. A video obtained by the Utica Phoenix shows two New York police officers searching an SUV they had pulled over and finding a bag of drugs. This would all be well and good had one cop not been shown obviously taking the bag out of his pocket and placing it in the car, before emerging 30 seconds later holding it up as evidence.

All caught on the police car's video camera. Wow.

Farscry wrote:

HEYOOOOO!

Here’s a pretty clear example of the “Just sprinkle some crack on him” philosophy of police work. A video obtained by the Utica Phoenix shows two New York police officers searching an SUV they had pulled over and finding a bag of drugs. This would all be well and good had one cop not been shown obviously taking the bag out of his pocket and placing it in the car, before emerging 30 seconds later holding it up as evidence.

All caught on the police car's video camera. Wow.

There are news stories like this occurring on a daily basis from all over this country. Everything from regular misconduct to murder that gets "internally investigated" and all that.

Farscry wrote:

HEYOOOOO!

Here’s a pretty clear example of the “Just sprinkle some crack on him” philosophy of police work. A video obtained by the Utica Phoenix shows two New York police officers searching an SUV they had pulled over and finding a bag of drugs. This would all be well and good had one cop not been shown obviously taking the bag out of his pocket and placing it in the car, before emerging 30 seconds later holding it up as evidence.

All caught on the police car's video camera. Wow.

Except that's not what happened.

I can't believe I'm actually going to defend the Utica police department but I have to in this case. Last week the UPD release the full video which was almost 25 minutes long. In the video the officer's bare hand can be seen going into the driver's pocket and pulling out small baggies. Those were the bags that were being placed in the car.

I'm not going to comment on proper police evidentiary procedure but this clearly wasn't a case where evidence was planted. The Phoenix has already issued one apology and retraction because they named the wrong officers in the story.

Now the Utica PBA is considering filing a defamation suit against the Utica Phoenix.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/video_purports_to_show_utica_c.html

Well... that certainly changes things. Thanks for the rumor control, Bear!

While institutional racism is alive and well in the US. Cops in particular are probably less racist vs just general "miserable" human beings. I know two cops for over 15 years one in Philly and one in Queens, NYC. And in those 15 years they have degenerated into sub-humans. One is black the other is white. Both aren't racist. They just hate the people they deal with and struggle to differentiate between "us" vs. "them"

Good news is that on my side I could probably inflect horrible punishment on innocents that piss me off.

My cop dad has told me several stories that I have found fairly horrifying, he never seemed to find them horrifying, more like ranging from amusing to childish and unfortunate.

For example, he was complaining that people where he worked weren't allowed to work out and exercise on duty anymore. Turns out that some cops had made the mistake of beating up a prisoner who wasn't fighting back in eyesight of a member of an oversight group. It was reported and some sheriff was scheduled to talk with several departments in the area about, I don't know, how not to be thuggish pricks or something. At one of those meetings hardly anyone showed up, and the Sheriff was pissed at the low turnout at what was supposed to be a mandatory meeting, and then noticed that a bunch of guys were skipping the meeting to run on the track, and presto, the Sheriff announces that there will be no more exercising during your shift.

The point of the story was how he was upset that some idiots cost them exercise privileges. The police brutality was just random background information. The stories that he actually was upset about were "us vs us" stories. A cop hospitalized during a drunken fight with other cops at their office holiday party. (That "their" doesn't include my dad, different area) Some other time last year some cop shot another cop in some sort of love triangle.

In my dad's defense he looks down on these "thugs" as I believe he referred to them, and is unhappy that they are (apparently) entering the California police force in larger numbers. However he doesn't seem all that worked up about it, in fact, he said this at the end of the conversation, which is even a weak defense of the practice:

"Well, the population is getting more violent, and when you pull cops from that more violent population they tend to be more violent as well. And of course you need to use more force on a more violent population."
"The population is getting more violent? What is the crime rate looking like?"
"Oh, the crime rate is going down, but that's just because there are so many more Mexicans, and they don't report crimes."

The conversation ended there, I've had enough conversations with Republicans in general, and my dad in particular, to know when the impenetrable logic shields have been activated. The Venn Diagram of "Studies, statistics, and proofs that disagree with my preconceived notions" and "Studies, statistics, and proofs that I can immediately tell are incomplete, falsified, or incorrect" is a single circle.