Vinnie: Merry Fencemas!

I am going to echo the sentiments of folks who say that ownership of fighting breed dogs should be at least as restrictive as firearm ownership and probably moreso. I own several guns and have 100% confidence that they won't jump a fence of their on volition and attack my neighbors. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say owning a fighting breed dog should be harder than owning machineguns.

What are your thoughts on attaching machine guns to fighting breed dogs?

Of course, you could go even further...

Finger-->butt shark made me laugh. Thanks for that! And thanks everyone for the continued prayers, support and much welcomed advice.

Visited Vinnie on my lunch hour and after work, the second time I went in he actually stood up and started wagging his tail! His temp is still normal, he's still improving. He's a mess though, I tell ya what. He's still seeping a lot of blood, of course they want these wounds to drain. They were going to take out 3 of the drainage tubes as I was leaving, one is staying in a little longer. I have great hopes for his recovery, he still needs all the love and prayers he can get. If he can stave off infection, fight off the bacteria he was exposed to, he should have a good shot at it. He still has a lot of swelling and bruising of course. His breathing is better, but still pretty heavy. That wagging tail was the most beautiful thing I've seen!

I have pics, they're pretty ugly, but I'll post a couple after I get them uploaded.

I've been in touch with a lawyer. I have to speak with him again before talking to the Co. Atty. Hopefully tomorrow.

Good luck, I hope you can get this sorted out of court. Maybe your neighbor will back down after thinking things through.

Glad to hear his spirits are up! Sounds like he's getting great teatment, don't forget to treat yourself a bit. There's a lot to worry about, take some time to yourself with a tea and some soothing music (or your equivelant.)

Still sending positive thoughts to you and your pack.

I'm not sure how the law applies to people, but I know that when our neighbor's dogs came onto our property and ate two of our chickens, we were expressly told by the county AC officer that shooting them was an option. Not suggesting that you should shoot the neighbor, of course, but if your animal is properly penned, then she is endangering her own rights by not properly controlling her pets. Anything that occurs as a trespass of your property should be counted as self-defense, in my non-expert opinion.

I'm sure i'm not saying anything new, but just wanted to share, and wish you luck. I just lost my 5 year old boxer to Lymphoma, so actions that could harm an innocent animal are making me particularly angry.

I have pics, they're pretty ugly, but I'll post a couple after I get them uploaded.

Please post them as links, rather than inline? I can deal with wounds when I have to, but I'd rather not if I don't. Think of the squeamish!

Very glad to hear he's doing better. The lack of fever is especially promising.

theditor wrote:

when our neighbor's dogs came onto our property and ate two of our chickens, we were expressly told by the county AC officer that shooting them was an option.

Yeah, the law will pretty much always side with the person whose property was invaded in situations like that.

Of course if you're in an even slightly more urban type area, which this sounds like, it's a lot harder to justify use of a firearm. Generally not worth the risk, especially in situations like this one where it would be hard not to hit your own pet or someone else's house or property.

I'd lean pretty heavily toward the aluminum baseball bat or some other weapon. For myself I probably would have run out, grabbed the old pick mattock from the tool rack in the garage. I accidentally dented a piece of quarter inch steel plate with it once a couple years ago. I'm pretty sure I could bury it in a dog skull just fine, particularly if it meant saving my own dog.

Thin_J wrote:
theditor wrote:

when our neighbor's dogs came onto our property and ate two of our chickens, we were expressly told by the county AC officer that shooting them was an option.

Yeah, the law will pretty much always side with the person whose property was invaded in situations like that.

Of course if you're in an even slightly more urban type area, which this sounds like, it's a lot harder to justify use of a firearm. Generally not worth the risk, especially in situations like this one where it would be hard not to hit your own pet or someone else's house or property.

I'd lean pretty heavily toward the aluminum baseball bat or some other weapon. For myself I probably would have run out, grabbed the old pick mattock from the tool rack in the garage. I accidentally dented a piece of quarter inch steel plate with it once a couple years ago. I'm pretty sure I could bury it in a dog skull just fine, particularly if it meant saving my own dog.

I favor one handed weapons in this particular case. With two dogs moving around in a furball, it's hard not to hit your own if you don't have a free hand to hold the one you're aiming at down. Furthermore, an impact weapon like a bat requires a backswing, whereas a bladed weapon is "live" irrespective of the speed in which you use it. In this particular case, a smaller, curved knife might actually be ideal since the fastest way to dispatch a dog would probably to throat and fishgut it. For that, I'd probably recommend something like the Spyderco Harpie, CRKT Bear Claw, or Cold Steel Tiger Claw Kerambit.

IMAGE(http://www.youwantit2.com/SPYHARPY2.jpg)
IMAGE(http://www.dumptoko.nl/res/00201/img_user/productimages/crkt/crkt_bearclaw_2515.jpg)
IMAGE(http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/coldsteel/images/CS49KS.jpg)

This thread alternates between heartwarming and scary quickly enough to give me a headache.

necroyeti wrote:

This thread alternates between heartwarming and scary quickly enough to give me a headache.

Yeah... She's getting mild PTSD from breaking up the fight... I'm not sure how she'd be able to handle gutting another dog to save hers.

I can see it now, Rabbit dives into the fray, her knife flashes once, twice, six times. The pitbulls lie quivering on the ground, a long slash across each of their throats and down their bellies. Spattered with blood, Rabbit turns to face her terrified, shell-shocked neighbor.

"I'm going to go wash up," Rabbit says evenly, "and give my dogs a bath. Should take me about two hours. When I come out your dogs better be gone--and I don't want any intestines in my backyard either."

The neighbor nods wordlessly as Rabbit turns towards her house accompanied by her three dogs--tails wagging.

Yonder wrote:

I can see it now, Rabbit dives into the fray, her knife flashes once, twice, six times. The pitbulls lie quivering on the ground, a long slash across each of their throats and down their bellies. Spattered with blood, Rabbit turns to face her terrified, shell-shocked neighbor.

"I'm going to go wash up," Rabbit says evenly, "and give my dogs a bath. Should take me about two hours. When I come out your dogs better be gone--and I don't want any intestines in my backyard either."

The neighbor nods wordlessly as Rabbit turns towards her house accompanied by her three dogs--tails wagging.

As she gets to her porch, she stops and turns around. Wiping blood from her cheek with the back of her wrist she says "Oh, and welcome to the new neighborhood".

Paleocon wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I can see it now, Rabbit dives into the fray, her knife flashes once, twice, six times. The pitbulls lie quivering on the ground, a long slash across each of their throats and down their bellies. Spattered with blood, Rabbit turns to face her terrified, shell-shocked neighbor.

"I'm going to go wash up," Rabbit says evenly, "and give my dogs a bath. Should take me about two hours. When I come out your dogs better be gone--and I don't want any intestines in my backyard either."

The neighbor nods wordlessly as Rabbit turns towards her house accompanied by her three dogs--tails wagging.

As she gets to her porch, she stops and turns around. Wiping blood from her cheek with the back of her wrist she says "Oh, and welcome to the new neighborhood".

We're having a barbecue this Saturday, you and your husband are welcome to come.

Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I can see it now, Rabbit dives into the fray, her knife flashes once, twice, six times. The pitbulls lie quivering on the ground, a long slash across each of their throats and down their bellies. Spattered with blood, Rabbit turns to face her terrified, shell-shocked neighbor.

"I'm going to go wash up," Rabbit says evenly, "and give my dogs a bath. Should take me about two hours. When I come out your dogs better be gone--and I don't want any intestines in my backyard either."

The neighbor nods wordlessly as Rabbit turns towards her house accompanied by her three dogs--tails wagging.

As she gets to her porch, she stops and turns around. Wiping blood from her cheek with the back of her wrist she says "Oh, and welcome to the new neighborhood".

We're having a barbecue this Saturday, you and your husband are welcome to come.

Bring your dogs, we can use the meat.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I can see it now, Rabbit dives into the fray, her knife flashes once, twice, six times. The pitbulls lie quivering on the ground, a long slash across each of their throats and down their bellies. Spattered with blood, Rabbit turns to face her terrified, shell-shocked neighbor.

"I'm going to go wash up," Rabbit says evenly, "and give my dogs a bath. Should take me about two hours. When I come out your dogs better be gone--and I don't want any intestines in my backyard either."

The neighbor nods wordlessly as Rabbit turns towards her house accompanied by her three dogs--tails wagging.

As she gets to her porch, she stops and turns around. Wiping blood from her cheek with the back of her wrist she says "Oh, and welcome to the new neighborhood".

We're having a barbecue this Saturday, you and your husband are welcome to come.

Bring something to grill, If you know what I mean. As she gestures to the carcasses and smiles.

ftfy

Paleocon wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:
Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I can see it now, Rabbit dives into the fray, her knife flashes once, twice, six times. The pitbulls lie quivering on the ground, a long slash across each of their throats and down their bellies. Spattered with blood, Rabbit turns to face her terrified, shell-shocked neighbor.

"I'm going to go wash up," Rabbit says evenly, "and give my dogs a bath. Should take me about two hours. When I come out your dogs better be gone--and I don't want any intestines in my backyard either."

The neighbor nods wordlessly as Rabbit turns towards her house accompanied by her three dogs--tails wagging.

As she gets to her porch, she stops and turns around. Wiping blood from her cheek with the back of her wrist she says "Oh, and welcome to the new neighborhood".

We're having a barbecue this Saturday, you and your husband are welcome to come.

We're having... pitbull.

Rabbit puts on her sunglasses.

YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

ftfy

ftfy

Knives like that are probably excellent if you know how to use one correctly and are good with it. I'm very likely neither.

I know I can swing that mattock accurately though

Thin_J wrote:

Knives like that are probably excellent if you know how to use one correctly and are good with it. I'm very likely neither.

I know I can swing that mattock accurately though :)

There is certainly no substitute for training. That is true in anything you do.

Given the topic at hand, this conversation took a pretty stomach-churning turn.

KaterinLHC wrote:

Given the topic at hand, this conversation took a pretty stomach-churning turn.

True enough. It's pretty simple though. If my Dog's getting torn in half in my own backyard because an idiot neighbor buys a breed of dog they know nothing about and can't train or handle properly, then my dog's survival becomes priority one. Saving my dog without injury to myself is priority 2. If this is isn't the first time I've dealt with this problem then choosing a method of ending the conflict that protects the neighbors dogs is somewhere distant behind a number of other things on that list. If I have a way to disable or kill the attacking animals quickly I will absolutely take it.

In SillyRabbit's particular case, she'd dealt with the same problem once before but managed to avoid any real harm. She asked the neighbor to take care of it. The responsibility of keeping their dogs off her property is theirs, not hers, so her request was absolutely correct.

They did nothing about it.

At that point, if it happens again and my pet, a part of my family, is getting hurt... then the given neighbor's animals cease to be pets in my eyes. They're predators just like any other wild animal. If I catch a couple of coyotes in my backyard laying into my dog I'm not going to try and split them up without injuring them. I'm going to get them off the quickest, easiest way I can.

And on the other side, if my own dog gets off my property multiple times and eventually attacks a neighbor's pet, then I'm an idiot and he/she can do whatever they need to in order to protect their own. It might end with me depressed, but at least I'll know I need to avoid owning any more dogs.

I know, and I don't disagree with anything you said about protecting your pets, not in the slightest. I don't think any pet owner would.

But the relish with which the mutilation (and subsequent barbecue) of those dogs is being described... I mean, I know they attacked Vinnie, but it's just a little unsettling, that's all.

Ah, see, that's what I get for skimming. I missed the uh... barbecue conversation.

I don't think they'd actually BBQ a dog. Its just revenge fantasy so we feel a little less powerless over an attack on a beloved pet.

KaterinLHC wrote:

Given the topic at hand, this conversation took a pretty delicious turn.

Fixed for...wait, what?

Semi-seriously though, you're not wrong but while Silly Rabbit has been through a rough experience I think a little levity in the seriousness may be helpful, rather than staying overly po-faced.

SR, glad Vinnie is doing better. My prayers are with you. Don't let that neighbor push you around. You're in the right. Let your lawyer handle the nasty work.

And, get a bat. A little league or youth bat might be just right for you, small, easy to swing and fast.

I'm glad to hear Vinnie is getting better. I hope his prognosis continue to improve day by day.

As for pit bulls, Eff then with a capital F. They are nasty, evil, vicious dogs that should not exist in decent society.

A neighbor's sweet old rescue grayhound was mauled by a pit bull a few years ago while my neighbor was taking her for a walk.

And I was bitten by a pit bull puppy while out on assignment.

Why? Because I made the mistake of looking at it. The dog was tied to a tree, and it snapped its leash to come bite my leg. A cameraman with the local Fox affiliate beat it off me with his tripod. I got off easy -- just a tetanus shot and a couple of band aids.

I've heard the same stories about how sweet and lovable pit bulls supposedly can be. Those stories are lies.

Good luck with the court stuff, Rabbit.

Enix wrote:

I've heard the same stories about how sweet and lovable pit bulls supposedly can be. Those stories are lies.

This is a little bit hyperbolic. That said, there's more than enough history surrounding the breed to prove it's not a dog breed most people should ever own. People simply aren't responsible enough.

I think the problem with pit bulls is that they were originally bred to bring down cattle and wild boar. If you breed an animal to be crazy enough to attack something ten times it's own size, it'll probably attack everything smaller than that too. That's probably where the strong pack mentality comes from too.

The strong pack mentality is bred into other types of dogs too, for other reasons. Take the Siberian Husky, for instance. As wolfy as they look, they're not naturally aggressive. The pack mentality is present to make them better at team pulling. That said, if they aren't socialized right the pack mentality can make them over-protective of their human family. Same goes for a lot of breeds though.

I personally favor the idea that a person shouldn't own a dog they cannot or aren't prepared to handle. I also like the idea of discouraging having certain working breeds as pets, if the task they were bred for is inherently violent. Heck, even Terriers were originally bred to be ratters. There really aren't many breeds that were meant to simply be companion animals. A dog with a job is a happy dog.