Vinnie: In Memoriam

SillyRabbit wrote:

But, he's got good doctors and I know they'll do everything they can for him.

The best doctors your neighbors' money can buy!

Thanks for the update...I'll keep praying!

You can proceed to the last paragraph if you wish, Malor.

Thanks, I did! I probably wouldn't have minded, but I'll play it safe.

It's not going to be easy or pleasant.

Sadly, this is probably true, but if it helps, you're working on behalf of everyone in the neighborhood as well. It's not just about you. It can be if you want it to be -- you're completely justified in the circumstances to focus purely on protecting yourself. But the neighbors are obviously supportive, and if you start to wear out, remember that you're making them safer too.

Mytch wrote:
SillyRabbit wrote:

But, he's got good doctors and I know they'll do everything they can for him.

The best doctors your neighbors' money can buy!

Thanks for the update...I'll keep praying!

Remember, it could be done cheaper! /sarcasm

Actually I'm really glad Vinnie is doing well. I have to say that the name brings back fond memories of the first four legged canine that stole my heart with the same name. Go VINNIE!

Malor wrote:

Sadly, this is probably true, but if it helps, you're working on behalf of everyone in the neighborhood as well. It's not just about you. It can be if you want it to be -- you're completely justified in the circumstances to focus purely on protecting yourself. But the neighbors are obviously supportive, and if you start to wear out, remember that you're making them safer too.

I've wrote then deleted a message a couple of times similar to this. I don't want to come across in a guilt-trippy way. But I guess I'm picturing what I would feel like if I just tried to be nice and non-confrontational this time, only to have the animals "play" with a neighborhood child in the future.

SR, best wishes to you and Vinnie. I don't know what I'd do in your situation.

Sku Boi wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:
MaxShrek wrote:
BadMojo wrote:
MaxShrek wrote:

I've had friends with boyfriends like that. The only real solution to that type of person is a coat hangar and a time machine.

You keep locking your keys in that DeLorean? How does that fix anything?

Time machine to go back to when he was in utero. Coat hanger to do the obvious.

Hang up your coat while you give his mother a stern talking-to?

I thought it was to fix the parent's TV signal so they wouldn't get bored, modern hangers are so much better than retro rabbit ears!

No silly gooses... it's so she does my laundry instead of banging his dad.

I would try to have their dogs removed. Having them there is an untenable situation. They are dangerous and your neighbors are not capable of being responsible. It's an agonizing decision to make on a lot of levels, but seems the right one to me. Just my 2 cents. Wishing you well.

From your description, since the beginning, your neighbors have not passed up an opportunity to lie to you or attempt to bully you. If you tolerate this behavior, it will set the foundation for a living hell. Bullies need limits. They will continually test them and should you fail to enforce them, they will run roughshod on your life. Conversely, bullies are also notorious cowards. Stand up to them and they will back down. Underneath the narcissism and sense of entitlement lies a deep insecurity. If it wasn't there, they'd have a lot easier time acting like human beings.

I've skimmed the not SillyRabbit posts so not sure if this has been posted.

The choice about the dogs is a tough one. Maybe to remove some pressure, take a petition in your neighborhood about the dogs and the owners. If there are multiple issues with other neighbors you will have more proof that the dogs are an issue PLUS it may take a little bit of the focus off you. This guy seems deluded but maybe if a bunch of neighbors sign they had problems it may get through to him. It may also feel like a group decision and make you feel better.

karmajay wrote:

I've skimmed the not SillyRabbit posts so not sure if this has been posted.

The choice about the dogs is a tough one. Maybe to remove some pressure, take a petition in your neighborhood about the dogs and the owners. If there are multiple issues with other neighbors you will have more proof that the dogs are an issue PLUS it may take a little bit of the focus off you. This guy seems deluded but maybe if a bunch of neighbors sign they had problems it may get through to him. It may also feel like a group decision and make you feel better.

I wouldn't even go there. The guy is such a narcissist that doing the poll would just be interpreted as your getting the neighborhood to "gang up on him". Plus, it isn't their dispute, it's yours. Make your decisions, own it, and then, if you want to take a poll, but divorcing yourself from the responsibility by trying to spread it around is only going to make things worse.

MaxShrek wrote:
Sku Boi wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:
MaxShrek wrote:
BadMojo wrote:
MaxShrek wrote:

I've had friends with boyfriends like that. The only real solution to that type of person is a coat hangar and a time machine.

You keep locking your keys in that DeLorean? How does that fix anything?

Time machine to go back to when he was in utero. Coat hanger to do the obvious.

Hang up your coat while you give his mother a stern talking-to?

I thought it was to fix the parent's TV signal so they wouldn't get bored, modern hangers are so much better than retro rabbit ears!

No silly gooses... it's so she does my laundry instead of banging his dad.

Nice save.

I just wanted to add, that I am so glad to hear that Vinnie has done so well throughout this entire ordeal. I hope that this new complication is not a major one, and that the meds clean things up without another surgery. You have done an amazing job of being civil and responsible through all of this, when you could have easily and understandably freaked out a bit. I hope that your neighbors do loose their dogs, and that in doing so there is no feud that really starts up with you and them, as that can be a tough situation to be in. That being said, there should be laws preventing people from ever being able to own pets for reasons just like this. Your neighbors irresponsibility could have cost you much more than the money, time and emotional distress you have already sacrificed. They should not be able to keep their dogs, and should not be able to have any other sort of animal in their care ever again.

I know I've said this numerous times in different ways, but I think a little clarification is in order.

Irrespective of what you choose to do, your neighbor will feel aggrieved one way or the other. It isn't up to you to make him feel better. It isn't up to you to make nice. It is up to you to do the right thing.

I don't know dogs, but if I was your next door neighbor and my (so far fictional) kid were to get ahold of daddy's Mossberg 590 milspec 12 gauge shotgun and fire three or four rounds into your vinyl siding, you would be entirely justified in demanding that my gun and any others in my house be removed. I might be pissed. And if I were malignant narcissist like your neighbor (I'm not, btw), I might even go all Mel Gibson on your ass and scream about how you are using the big bad gubmint to take my guns. But in the end of the day, you would be entirely good and right to demand that I lose my ability to endanger others through my negligence.

Do the right thing. Don't delay. Don't delegate. Don't compromise. Just do it.

I've tried to stay away from dispensing advice on the thread as I don't feel I have any good one, but despite sounding very militant, Paleo does cut to the core of the matter.

Let me put it this way... If there was a known child molester living next door to you. And you find out he actually molested your child! And the county leaves it in your hands on whether he stays in the house or goes, what do you do? Well, there are three dog molesters living in the house next door. They have repeatedly molested your dog--your baby. You are given a choice on whether they should remain living next to you or not. What do you do?

Okay SillyRabbit, I know this is a tough decision. Whenever I face these kind of issues I do that tried and true writing it down method. I write down the issue, I write down the possible solutions, I even do the whole Pro vs. Con of each option. The reason I'm bringing this up is that many of us here are probably having a hard time figuring out why you're not just getting rid of the neighbor's dogs. What is stopping you from saying "Those dogs have to go."? It might help us to understand, and by writing it down and sharing, it might help you to understand exactly what your internal conflict is, too.

My worry about letting the dogs stay is that their behaviour is clearly escalating. First an attack, then a genuine attempt to kill Vinnie. What's next? They're out of control, and their owners are apparently neither willing nor able to correct the situation. At this point these dogs probably need years of intensive training to curb their aggressive tendencies, not a taller fence.

Well, I know I wouldn't want to live in the same neighborhood as those little monsters. The pit bulls are also a problem, amirite?

It would seem to me that there is no good way out of this situation. If the dogs live, they will continue to terrorize you, Vinnie, your other dogs, and the neighborhood in general (and their owners will probably still treat you with suspicion and malice). If they are put down everyone will probably be a lot safer, but perhaps not completely safe from the owners. It seems like your choice has been made for you in some ways: Putting the pits down presents the best odds of protecting you, your pets and your neighbors by a good margin.

Although you do not deserve to be in either situation, the unfortunate fact is that what happened cannot unhappen; we cannot hope to erase or ignore the events that occurred that day, but we can at least hope for the just result of your responsible conduct and your neighbors' dangerous and unpardonable conduct.

Wishing Vinnie good luck with his recovery.

I don't see how anyone reading this thread could possibly think you're wimpy. You fought 3 vicious dogs to save the life of your own dog, and won.

Paleo wrote:

I know I've said this numerous times in different ways, but I think a little clarification is in order.

Irrespective of what you choose to do, your neighbor will feel aggrieved one way or the other. It isn't up to you to make him feel better. It isn't up to you to make nice. It is up to you to do the right thing.

I don't know dogs, but if I was your next door neighbor and my (so far fictional) kid were to get ahold of daddy's Mossberg 590 milspec 12 gauge shotgun and fire three or four rounds into your vinyl siding, you would be entirely justified in demanding that my gun and any others in my house be removed. I might be pissed. And if I were malignant narcissist like your neighbor (I'm not, btw), I might even go all Mel Gibson on your ass and scream about how you are using the big bad gubmint to take my guns. But in the end of the day, you would be entirely good and right to demand that I lose my ability to endanger others through my negligence.

Do the right thing. Don't delay. Don't delegate. Don't compromise. Just do it.

I think this is right. I guess there are 2 things that have been holding me back. Firstly, that somehow they convince the judge that Vinnie also has to go (and this may be an irrational fear - or misplaced fear) and secondly, that they will somehow retaliate or one of their crazy friends will. Well, make that 3 things, I don't want to be responsible for what happens to these dogs. At the same time, I think the dogs need to go. A privacy fence would be nice for a lot of reasons, but it's not a solution to this problem in my opinion. I think maybe part of my reluctance has been that the CA called that meeting to avoid having to settle this in court and so I guess I was inclined to try. I still need to talk to him one on one, at which point I think I'll be able to make my decision.

To Paleo's point, I'm not going to feel safe whether I press charges or I don't. The fact is, if I don't press charges there is nothing to force them to take responsibility for this event or any other. If this happens again to me or anyone else, how much will I wish I had pressed charges? They have not offered to pay the vet bills or offered a dime to me. I've already paid out over $600 that I didn't exactly have lying around because of many other expenses I've incurred in the short time I've lived here. I'm not inclined to go talk to them about paying bills, I know there will be an argument about Vinnie's responsible, I have to pay their bills, etc. I'm sure that pressing charges is the right thing for me to do financially and civically. Those are easy points in that column.

Another thing that has held me back, I think I've been reeling from the trauma of what I saw, what I did to try to stop it, what other people did to try to stop it, the visual of Vinnie near death pops into my mind at random moments ... the helplessness of knowing that I couldn't stop it and won't be able to stop it if it happens again and what has come since with respect to caring for Vinnie, tending his wounds, worrying about complications and making sure I can let my dogs out to pee without an ambush. I wake up every morning with the worst sense of dread. It's the first thing that enters my mind, not, 'what's the weather today', 'what will I wear to work', but, 'I have to take my dogs out and there could be another attack'. I go out on red alert with my hands and pockets full. I carry a phone, a camera, pepper spray and a wooden baluster. Honestly, even then I know my weapons are not going to save me or my dogs from a 3 pit attack. We were joking at work today that I need a tool belt of some sort because I don't have enough hands. I have tremendous anxiety all day at work and really only feel calm at times like now. All the dogs are lying around me and everyone is safe and alive. Of course, we'll have to make one more trip to the backyard before bed, but for now, no immediate worries.

I have to snap out of this - the fear has a grip on me that I have to break free from. I've not even gotten angry about this because fear and worry are stronger right now. Vinnie's done his part. I have to do mine.

I might seem pretty wimpy in this thread, overall, and honestly, most people that know me don't have that impression of me. I've always been strong willed, independent and not a complete pushover ... but since this all came down, I've been feeling really weak. I just don't think I've had the mental strength to go forward to and take on what needs to be done, but I'm getting stronger everyday and you guys are a great help.

muttonchop wrote:

I don't see how anyone reading this thread could possibly think you're wimpy. You fought 3 vicious dogs to save the life of your own dog, and won.

Agreed. You're an incredibly strong person, taking care of their own. You totally rock.

Unfortunately, you have to finish this job, and deep down, you clearly know it too. You owe it to yourself and your family to beat this, and to stop living your life in fear. The CA is clearly with you, your other neighbors support you, and all of goodjerdom is behind you. Do not live in fear, do not give into fear. This is your house, and your yard, dammit. Time to finish the job. Get that one-on-one meeting with the CA, and put this into motion. Force the dogs to be relocated or destroyed, get your money for Vinnie's vet (or a court order demanding they pay and have the vet start sending invoices next door), and get that privacy fence put in for good measure. You really do have to take care of all three. With just vet bills and the pit bulls gone, the neighbor will get more pitts, and constantly harass you every time they see you. With just vet bills and the privacy fence, while you won't be getting dirty looks or harassment from the neighbors, the dogs are still a threat, and still likely to cause problems; if not to you, to someone else. You could go with getting rid of the pitts and the privacy fence, and take care of the vet bills on your own, but realistically why would you? That would be a half-hearted attempt at compromise that would accomplish nothing except drain your pocketbook. So, put it all into motion. Talk to the CA and ask about these three priorities, and find out if he can take this all on and settle it up there, or if you'll have to revisit this in a civil court. It's the only way to be sure.

muttonchop wrote:

I don't see how anyone reading this thread could possibly think you're wimpy. You fought 3 vicious dogs to save the life of your own dog, and won.

Hear hear! I'm one of the silent supporters mentioned above, I've been following this thread for a couple weeks now, and couldn't begin to imagine the stress SR has been/is going through. There's a whole emotional and psychological side to these events that only really weigh on SR, and I think she's been handling them exceptionally well.

Agreed...I smell no blood in the water. I mean, just this statement right here:

A Non-Wimpy Person wrote:

I go out on red alert with my hands and pockets full.

speaks of not a wimpy person, but a well-prepared one, weary of having to be on their guard. Like Connor MacLeod, or perhaps Eli.

SR, there really isn't an option here. The neighbor's dogs have to go.

I'll explain.
The options you think you've got:
1) You let the neighbors keep the dogs and rely on them to construct a better fence.
- Worst case scenario is their dogs break into your yard and another attack occurs.

2) You press charges and the dogs are removed from the neighbor's house.
- Worst case scenario is someone gets violent with you.

The only real choice is to keep any retaliation aimed at you instead of the dogs.

Keep your chin up! We're all with you and your pets.

I have been following this thread and I too would like to throw my support to having the neighbor's dogs removed. But, even if this happens, the air is poisoned in the neighborhood. How is the security of your house. I don't think that they might break into your house, however, I would expect petty acts of "retribution" from this neighbor. I think that a good fence in this case could help, but I would also look into motion sensor lights and possibly either an alarm system or a security camera system. Ultimately, the dogs are only the (granted very serious) symptom in a larger issue.

On a totally FYI sidenote, should the neighbors abjectly refuse to pay the vet bills, and because of some sort of blip in the space-time continuum the CA doesn't force them to, keep in mind your homeowner's insurance will often pay for such things. Seems terribly mundane given all the rallying around the SR flag going on (I'm right there with you SR!), but at least financially you that option.

Muttonchop couldn't be more right. From where we sit you're the picture of grace, grit, and integrity under fire. Just the kind of mom Vinnie deserves.

Jakobedlam wrote:

Muttonchop couldn't be more right. From where we sit you're the picture of grace, grit, and integrity under fire. Just the kind of mom Vinnie deserves.

Thanks to you I'm now picturing SR as Brett Butler...

IMAGE(http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Shows/G_L/Gq_Gz/GraceUnderFire/grace-under-fire2.jpg)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

No one thinks you're wimpy in the slightest, dear. In fact, you're a lot stronger than some of us would be in this situation. It's an incredibly stressful and heartbreaking situation that I would never want anyone to have to go through, but you're handling it extremely well. Vinnie is very lucky to have you.
And as unpleasant as it is, the dogs really do have to go. You and everyone else knows they're not going to become magically docile if they are allowed to stay. If you really are afraid of retaliation from the neighbors/their friends, tell your attorney. They may not do anything, but it's better to make sure your fear for your dog's life is known. Especially since you have proof of their friends being crazy bastards.
As always, I'm wishing you the best of luck in all of this, SR. Give Vinnie lots of hugs for us.

SillyRabbit wrote:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Clint?

Connor MacLeod

Ah ha! You have hit upon the weapon not yet suggested.

IMAGE(http://imgur.com/fjqFd.jpg)

There can be only one. And it must be Vinnie.

If this were happening to me, I know what I would likely do. First, I would use the leverage the CA gave to get the neighbors to build a good, solid, tall fence to my specifications, and also have them pay for all of Vinnie's bills. Then, I would list the house and get out of there. The fact is, these neighbors will make your life hell if you stay -- it is just the sort of people they are. If you let the criminal charges drop, so their dogs don't have to die, they have no reason to bring trouble to you after you move (which I would be concerned about).

By having the fence put up, you are doing something reasonable to make the situation better for the new owners. It is true that other neighbors will still be at risk, but you should not have to take on personal risk from the neighbors' retaliation to help the whole neighborhood -- you didn't start this and you don't have to bear that weight. The other neighbors can pursue matters on their own if they want something more done.

Anyway, that's how I would look at it. I am considering a move right now because of neighbor issues that pale in comparison to yours.