Vinnie: Merry Fencemas!

Mytch wrote:
Yellow5 wrote:

I'd maybe consider looking into an electric fence, and installing it on your side. I'd not trust the fence craft of some rube with the safety of my pets after what you've been through.

It'd have to be a MUCH more powerful electric fence than the ones marketed for dogs. Those are designed to scare the pet with a tingle to encourage them to stay away from the area...three pit bulls on the charge, I don't think they'd notice. And if you got one powerful enough that they would notice, I don't know that you'd want your dogs around it.

Yeah, an enraged pitt is going to need a lot more than a little jolt. A fence strong enough to keep one out will be a danger to SR's own dogs.

I have to agree with the folks that seem to be indicating that the problem of those dogs isn't going to be solved by the fence one way or the other.

I spoke with my brother over the weekend. He said that when his kids were 2 and 4, the next door neighbor got a pair of pitbulls. For about a week, they had a habit of rushing the 4' tall chainlink fence and growling at his kids. Now, my brother is a lot like me only about 40 pounds heavier with significantly less impulse control and his wife is a holy terror who would set you on fire if she thought you were threatening her kids.

They had a talk with the neighbor who, apparently, must have thought it just wasn't worth the consequences because the dogs were gone the next day.

muttonchop wrote:

So I've been following this thread and reading all sorts of pit bull horror stories, and then today I watched the Vancouver Pride parade which just happened to include representatives from the local pit bull rescue society. They look a lot less intimidating when they're wearing tiaras and rainbows and fairy wings.

Every animal has a non-hostile nature unless it feels threatened or endangered in some way. Unfortunately, the history of dog breeding is a very sad and cruel one and most dog races do not have a lot of their wolf ancestors left in them. And while even the most brutishly looking dogs like Pitbulls, Rottweilers and Dobermans can be loyal and peaceful companions, they have been bred to carry an increased internal aggression within them. Which means they need an owner with an even stronger hand and a more strict training early on. Sadly, in most cases it is the dog being put down when he was only a mere reflection of his owner's negligence.

Paleocon wrote:

I have to agree with the folks that seem to be indicating that the problem of those dogs isn't going to be solved by the fence one way or the other.

I spoke with my brother over the weekend. He said that when his kids were 2 and 4, the next door neighbor got a pair of pitbulls. For about a week, they had a habit of rushing the 4' tall chainlink fence and growling at his kids. Now, my brother is a lot like me only about 40 pounds heavier with significantly less impulse control and his wife is a holy terror who would set you on fire if she thought you were threatening her kids.

They had a talk with the neighbor who, apparently, must have thought it just wasn't worth the consequences because the dogs were gone the next day.

That, is awesome. Maybe they can speak to SR's neighbors on her behalf?

Is it feasible to just put up a sturdier fence along the property line you share with your neighbor?

Not sure if you can afford it, but perhaps something like a standard 10 ft. wooden privacy fence like you see around pool areas could give you peace of mind both physically and mentally. The added bonus is that way you wouldn't even have to see into your neighbors yard any more.

Aaron D. wrote:

Is it feasible to just put up a sturdier fence along the property line you share with your neighbor?

Not sure if you can afford it, but perhaps something like a standard 10 ft. wooden privacy fence like you see around pool areas could give you peace of mind both physically and mentally. The added bonus is that way you wouldn't even have to see into your neighbors yard any more.

She covered this earlier. Historical district rules limit her to a four foot fence, which is useless.

Boo.

That's a drag.

Glad to hear hear Vinnie is shaping up nicely! He's a good looking little pup!

Just to chime in on the drywall hammer, since you seemed interested, don't get an Estwing that Paleo showed in the picture. The Estwing hammers are an "old school" hammer design. They are great if you've been swinging hammer all your life, but I assume that isn't the case here. A Stanley Antivibe will be much preferable to an Estwing for the amateur swinger. They are balanced better and have a much better handle/grip that the Estwing. I swing both brands, but for different applications.
IMAGE(http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00973132000?hei=248&wid=248&op_sharpen=1&resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0)
Just look for a black and yellow handle.

ELewis17 wrote:

Glad to hear hear Vinnie is shaping up nicely! He's a good looking little pup!

Just to chime in on the drywall hammer, since you seemed interested, don't get an Estwing that Paleo showed in the picture. The Estwing hammers are an "old school" hammer design. They are great if you've been swinging hammer all your life, but I assume that isn't the case here. A Stanley Antivibe will be much preferable to an Estwing for the amateur swinger. They are balanced better and have a much better handle/grip that the Estwing. I swing both brands, but for different applications.
IMAGE(http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00973132000?hei=248&wid=248&op_sharpen=1&resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0)
Just look for a black and yellow handle.

Good call.

You probably also want to get a 50 count box of 3 mil contractor trash bags as well just in case. You know. Just saying.

And a box of Lye?

Yonder wrote:

And a box of Lye?

Or a pig farm.
IMAGE(http://thecia.com.au/reviews/s/images/snatch-12.jpg)

My personal recommendation for a defensive weapon tool goes to this sucker:

IMAGE(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15879359145117_2112_10151806)

Its rather weighty, being a bit larger than a regular hammer, but is also more balanced than aforementioned hammer.

Serious joking aside, I'm glad Vinnie is doing well and I pray that things will go smoothly for you regarding your neighbor.

Vinnie's home tonight. His recovery the last few days has been remarkable. He's walking very well, even able to handle stairs slowly as long as his e-collar's off. That thing really makes it hard to do stairs, and doorways. He came home like a champ, he was so happy to be here. I put him in his crate, which I had all ready for him in a great spot and let the other dogs in to see him. He soon let me know he wanted out of the crate and he tried to play with them like nothing was hurting. He amazes me. I did make them stop playing and sat down and had a love-in with them all. Fed everyone, Vinnie went out on a leash into the back yard twice, did his business in his favorite places and came back in. I put his collar back on and he went in the crate willingly, he's been snoozing good since.

I ended up getting pepper spray, the strongest a civilian can get. The guy at the gun shop seems to think it will stop a dog, even a pittie. I'm not finished with my self-defense plan, but for now, this is how far I've gone. I'd like to have one of those hammers, hope to hell to never have to use it. I plan to keep taking the dogs out one at a time on a leash for as long as it takes to get this sorted out. Another friend recommended a bullhorn, and I like that idea. Seems like blasting that in an ear might give me time to get to safety and call the police.

A friend of mine told me today of the neighbor's facebook page where Vinnie and I are completely villianized. He's got outright lies posted, not different interpretations of the same events. He's got friends that are angry and asking for my name and address. These people are sure that me and my dog are evil. Just to elaborate on what I knew of his story before: he's claiming that one of his dogs came over to play, Vinnie attacked it and when his GF came over to save his dog, Vinnie attacked her - when she screamed, his other 2 dogs came into the yard to defend her and attacked Vinnie so she could get away. He even says that the fact that my dog is alive proves his dogs weren't trying to kill it. The lies are, in order of the events: all 3 of his dogs came over at the same time, I saw it, they were all 3 in my yard before the GF ever got there. She and I both tried to break them apart, all three of her dogs were on top of Vinnie before she ever got bit the first time, the first time she got bit she screamed "Oh my god, you bit Momma!" and finally, one more bite on Vinnie's left shoulder and he would have bled out before I could have gotten him help. It wasn't for lack of tying that they didn't kill him.

I hate to end on a morbid note, so I won't. I'm so thankful for all of your comments, hopes and prayers, and it's made a big difference in how I'm getting through this and in Vinnie's recovery. There's a lot I'm thankful for. It looks like the road ahead won't be an easy one, but with support like this, I know we can do it.

Sounds like she never even told her boyfriend what really happened. What lying trash;watch your back around them.

Is Facebook libel or slander? I'm not sure how the internet falls in that particular dichotomy; I think libel.

If the FaceBook page is public, I'd go there and collect some screenshots before that evidence disappears. Or maybe you can tell the lawyer about it and see what he says. Also, it is so ridiculous that they feel it is perfectly okay for their dogs to enter other people's property and then be completely surprised if the dog on that property attacked them. I know that's not what happened here but it's still just as damning for them if they stick to that story. Once their dogs invaded another yard, all bets were off.

Ballotechnic wrote:

Sounds like she never even told her boyfriend what really happened. What lying trash;watch your back around them.

^ This. Be careful. The woman might not do anything but her lies may cause others to act out.

gbuchold wrote:

Is Facebook libel or slander? I'm not sure how the internet falls in that particular dichotomy; I think libel.

If it's untrue and written, then it's libelous. Slander is spoken IIRC.

On a side note, I'd love to see either of them make those statements under oath. The perjury charges would be magnificent on top of everything else.

What's the facebook page?? I always liked reading fiction.

SillyRabbit wrote:

A friend of mine told me today of the neighbor's facebook page where Vinnie and I are completely villianized. He's got outright lies posted, not different interpretations of the same events. He's got friends that are angry and asking for my name and address. These people are sure that me and my dog are evil.

This here...This is something you need to print out copies of now, and bring to the police tomorrow. Tell them that you are afraid for the safety of you, your family and Vinnie.

I did print it out the facebook transcript. It lacks the humor and creativity of this thread by a long shot. Mostly just profanity and hate. I wondered about the libel issue, but I doubt that applies to dogs. If they testify to any of the event's he's proposed, it'll be perjury, but, no witnesses arrived until after the neighbor's bites occurred. Neither one of us has corroborating witnesses. I'm pretty heartsick to think that not only has this horrible thing happened, but that I have no reasonable expectation of a good resolution.

I'm assuming someone has photos of her bite injuries though right? They should be able to tell the difference between bit marks Vinnie is capable of vs your neighbors pit bulls.

While you may not have witnesses, you have prior history on your side. From previous posts, you have said that they attacked Vinnie once before. You have also indicated (IIRC), that others have had their dogs attacked. Evidence and prior actions are definitely on your side in this case. While I loathe taking advantage of breed stereotypes, this is a case where it will work in your favour.

mudbunny wrote:
SillyRabbit wrote:

A friend of mine told me today of the neighbor's facebook page where Vinnie and I are completely villianized. He's got outright lies posted, not different interpretations of the same events. He's got friends that are angry and asking for my name and address. These people are sure that me and my dog are evil.

This here...This is something you need to print out copies of now, and bring to the police tomorrow. Tell them that you are afraid for the safety of you, your family and Vinnie.

+1.

Really, any and all info related to this case, you should print out/take pictures of/write down and keep (which it sounds like you're doing anyway without us telling you). But this especially.

'Course...devil's advocate, some of the comments made on here by your friends could be taken the same way. The difference, though, being that random members of a worldwide internet forum are probably less likely to actually take an active role in this situation than your neighbor's boyfriend's high school drinkin' buddies from the next town over.

Edit: Tannhauser'd!

SillyRabbit wrote:

I did print it out the facebook transcript. It lacks the humor and creativity of this thread by a long shot. Mostly just profanity and hate. I wondered about the libel issue, but I doubt that applies to dogs. If they testify to any of the event's he's proposed, it'll be perjury, but, no witnesses arrived until after the neighbor's bites occurred. Neither one of us has corroborating witnesses. I'm pretty heartsick to think that not only has this horrible thing happened, but that I have no reasonable expectation of a good resolution.

Given that neither of you have eyewitnesses(which can actually be a pain, since 5 people seeing the same incident will tell 5 stories), it really won't hurt either of you. You, however, have a libelous statement, history of aggression by the neighbor's pits, and the fact that it all happened in your yard on your side; a bit more than they have.(IANAL)

I definitely share your lament that there won't be a peaceable, agreeable resolution for all parties, but when it's all said and done, take heart that there doesn't seem like anything you could have done to make that happen.

Prior history of her dogs aggression and her bite marks will give you the advantage. I highly doubt anyone would believe the "went over to play" story. They can't possibly tell this story in court and be believed. It's like a kid starting a fight and the mother saying "Oh, he was just messing around! Their son is the one that attacked my boy!" They're doing whatever it takes to place the blame on Vinnie even though it was their dogs that were trespassing in your yard.

Mytch wrote:

'Course...devil's advocate, some of the comments made on here by your friends could be taken the same way. The difference, though, being that random members of a worldwide internet forum are probably less likely to actually take an active role in this situation than your neighbor's boyfriend's high school drinkin' buddies from the next town over.

While this is true, the neighbor's friends are taking their side for personal reasons. They would never request pics of her bite marks or ask questions like "what the hell was your dog doing in their yard in the first place?" Both parties agree that the pitbulls invaded SillyRabbit's yard which means the neighbors are already screwed.

Yes, the prior attack should be a pretty good indication that "play" was not on the dog's mind. At least not the kind of play that another dog would welcome.

I don't have photos of her wounds, but I assume the police and the ACO have them. The only wound I actually saw fresh was the first one, which was quite a gash her forearm, I didn't see the other side of arm that would indicate whether she was slashed or actually grabbed. I believed at the time and she believed at the time that she was bit by her own dogs, this was when she yelled the whole you bit momma thing. When I saw her arms later after she was all stitched up, I only got a quick glance. She had several wounds. If somehow it was shown that Vinnie bit her at some point I can swear from the circumstances he was only trying to defend himself, he was being brutally attacked. I don't believe he bit her even once, just considering he was under a pile of dogs at the time.

I think the neighbor was amazing that she kept on fighting to get her dogs off Vinnie until the very end. She laid herself on top of the first dog we managed to get off of him and she held him down. She helped save Vinnie's life from what she knows was a brutal assault that would kill him. She and I were in a war zone and we were on the same side. We were both fighting to save Vinnie. I guarantee you she's as traumatized as I am.

Your neighbor must have some serious ignorant-ass redneck buddies because anyone who buys the idea that a pitbull charged under a fence to your yard to "play" has got to be dumber than the empty propane tank they have attached to their trailer.

Paleocon wrote:

Your neighbor must have some serious ignorant-ass redneck buddies because anyone who buys the idea that a pitbull charged under a fence to your yard to "play" has got to be dumber than the empty propane tank they have attached to their trailer.

Yeah, ranking intelligence by income always works. Clearly, anyone who's poor must be stupid and useless, and their living arrangements tell you everything you need to know about a person.

[/sarcasm]

I think a better explanation is that the girlfriend lied her head off, the boyfriend bought it, and he's in full attack mode because he thinks it's justified. I don't think less of him for trusting his girlfriend. Taking it semi-public like that is pretty shameful, though.

The lady? She's scum. But the guy is being misled, he's probably not actively malevolent himself.

It's a shame SillyRabbit can't go straighten it out with him, but with legal proceedings underway, that probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Malor wrote:

Taking it semi-public like that is pretty shameful, though.

How is that any different than what SillyRabbit is doing? Something very upsetting is happening to him and he's venting to friends in a semi-public place.

On another note: Yay Vinnie is home!

Malor wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Your neighbor must have some serious ignorant-ass redneck buddies because anyone who buys the idea that a pitbull charged under a fence to your yard to "play" has got to be dumber than the empty propane tank they have attached to their trailer.

Yeah, ranking intelligence by income always works. Clearly, anyone who's poor must be stupid and useless, and their living arrangements tell you everything you need to know about a person.

[/sarcasm]

I think a better explanation is that the girlfriend lied her head off, the boyfriend bought it, and he's in full attack mode because he thinks it's justified. I don't think less of him for trusting his girlfriend. Taking it semi-public like that is pretty shameful, though.

The lady? She's scum. But the guy is being misled, he's probably not actively malevolent himself.

It's a shame SillyRabbit can't go straighten it out with him, but with legal proceedings underway, that probably wouldn't be a good idea.

I thought the guy fought off the first attack.

He's full of sh*t too, and he knows it.