Kim Jong Il is dead

93_confirmed wrote:

Demonize? Forget that, they have NUKES and have threatened to wipe other countries off the map. Let's bomb them into the stone age just in case they may ever use said nukes so America can be safer!!!

Sound familiar?

Thank you for your input Mrs. Bachmann.

Personally, I hope we at least try to open a dialog with him before we induct him to the axis of evil doers.

Bear wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:

Demonize? Forget that, they have NUKES and have threatened to wipe other countries off the map. Let's bomb them into the stone age just in case they may ever use said nukes so America can be safer!!!

Sound familiar?

Thank you for your input Mrs. Bachmann.

Personally, I hope we at least try to open a dialog with him before we induct him to the axis of evil doers.

As was mentioned before, it's not him we'd need to talk to so much as his "top men".

I see little chance of real regime change beyond KJ Jr. stepping in; "the king is dead, long live the king" and all that.

Bear wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:

Demonize? Forget that, they have NUKES and have threatened to wipe other countries off the map. Let's bomb them into the stone age just in case they may ever use said nukes so America can be safer!!!

Sound familiar?

Thank you for your input Mrs. Bachmann.

Personally, I hope we at least try to open a dialog with him before we induct him to the axis of evil doers.

Neutralizing Iran is more of a priority than NK because it's full of the same brown people we've been killing for the last decade. Its easier to sell that genocide to the American people than something new involving yellow people. Bomb, baby, bomb! Let's get this war started!

~M. Bachmann

Didn't KJ I sort of rule the place posthumously while KJ II was alive? So will the grandfather and father both rule from beyond the grave now, or just one of the two...neither? How's this work?

krev82 wrote:

Didn't KJ I sort of rule the place posthumously while KJ II was alive? So will the grandfather and father both rule from beyond the grave now, or just one of the two...neither? How's this work?

Just for clarification, the grand dad is Kim Il Sung (KIS if you will).

I have been reading way too much Game of Thrones. I'm envisioning exciting political intrigue. Too bad this is real life.

I'm thinking the best move at this point is a combination of food aid and an open door. Pressure is unlikely to have the desired effect of altering behavior in a positive manner and advancing a positive agenda may end up being counterproductive in the event that Jong Eun ends up the victim of a palace coup.

I say, reduce human suffering and wait and see.

Paleocon wrote:

I'm thinking the best move at this point is a combination of food aid and an open door. Pressure is unlikely to have the desired effect of altering behavior in a positive manner and advancing a positive agenda may end up being counterproductive in the event that Jong Eun ends up the victim of a palace coup.

I say, reduce human suffering and wait and see.

We share a bias, but yes.

Grubber788 wrote:

I have been reading way too much Game of Thrones. I'm envisioning exciting political intrigue. Too bad this is real life.

Is that even possible?

Is that even possible?

Yes, anything past about book 2.

Food aid won't make it to the people. They might not even hear about it.

Irongut wrote:

He's a young man in an environment of veteran politicians, advisors and military men right? I wonder if he'll end up asserting his own will or just serve as the figurehead to legitimize the real power players in the background. Doesnt matter how much grooming his father did to position him, the fact is he isnt his dad and I'd guess there are a lot of shifting powerplays going on. It sounds like even his father had to work at keeping the military happy above all else.

I heard some rumors of a rift between the government and the military (aren't they the same thing?) a while back. No idea where they stand right now.

krev82 wrote:

Didn't KJ I sort of rule the place posthumously while KJ II was alive? So will the grandfather and father both rule from beyond the grave now, or just one of the two...neither? How's this work?

I think it's more like Jung used Sung as a symbol (or a bludgeon) to consolidate his power. Sort of a, "the law says you must idolize him and he's my dad, so idolize me (also the law says you must idolize me)" kind of thing.

1Dgaf wrote:

Food aid won't make it to the people. They might not even hear about it.

The people don't know that they're receiving aid. When they see food aid, they believe it comes from their government. NK's propaganda says they have it better than anyone else in the world, and that the rest of the world is a desolate, violent wasteland. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take aid from places that are worse off than you, right?

There's always the question of just how much the people believe and just how much they know. There are people in NK who have seen the outside, after all. For those on the border, it's not hard to glance slightly to the south and see their neighbor. There are people risking life and limb to resist the government and distribute the truth. But when the law says you must act like you buy the government line and the punishment for breaking the law is death for you and your family, there's not a whole lot you can do.

Paleocon wrote:

I'm thinking the best move at this point is a combination of food aid and an open door. Pressure is unlikely to have the desired effect of altering behavior in a positive manner and advancing a positive agenda may end up being counterproductive in the event that Jong Eun ends up the victim of a palace coup.

Isn't that the plan? When NK blew up a South Korean Navy corvette in 2010 and very little happened afterward, it was clear that South Korea and the rest of the world aren't looking to get aggressive.

IMAGE(http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/12/19/C0044096-Korea_at_night%2C_satellite_image-SPL.jpg)

This is the Korean peninsula at night.

I believe that things will end up working themselves out.

Especially once all the North Koreans take a look at their satellite feeds.

Some footage of some North Koreans grieving (or "grieving").

...Gotta say the dude at 0:26 looks like he finds it hysterical. Maybe I'm projecting.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Irongut wrote:

He's a young man in an environment of veteran politicians, advisors and military men right? I wonder if he'll end up asserting his own will or just serve as the figurehead to legitimize the real power players in the background. Doesnt matter how much grooming his father did to position him, the fact is he isnt his dad and I'd guess there are a lot of shifting powerplays going on. It sounds like even his father had to work at keeping the military happy above all else.

I heard some rumors of a rift between the government and the military (aren't they the same thing?) a while back. No idea where they stand right now.

Just heard that on NPR this morning. They are not the same thing. Or at the very least the Ruling Party and the Military are not the same thing, which may be more accurate as the Military is a large part of the government apparatus.

So now they're saying Kim's son is "born of Heaven". Wow, this is just like going back to ancient Rome or Egypt. If those societies were any indication this young whippersnapper might just be able to indulge all of his youthful passions on a national level. I can just see 10,000 man Glee renditions outside his residence.

The only pictures I've seen of him make him look like a total punk, a truly towering asshole. I think he may not survive long.

Kehama wrote:

So now they're saying Kim's son is "born of Heaven". Wow, this is just like going back to ancient Rome or Egypt. If those societies were any indication this young whippersnapper might just be able to indulge all of his youthful passions on a national level. I can just see 10,000 man Glee renditions outside his residence.

That's all part of the cult of personality that his grandfather, Kim Il-sung, set up when he was alive. Kim Jong-Il took it a step further when his father died in the 90s and basically turned him into a god, conveniently making him the son of a god. There's no reason for his son not to claim that divinity.

Clearly, he just needs to promote both of them up a level -- Kim Il Sung must be Super God now.

Malor wrote:

The only pictures I've seen of him make him look like a total punk, a truly towering asshole. I think he may not survive long.

Agreed. If he hopes to stand any chance he must cut the same profile as his father.

That of an elderly woman.

IMAGE(http://cdn1.lostateminor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/kim-jong-il-looks-3.jpg)

Here he is being confused by this unfamiliar and foreign object (food).

LobsterMobster wrote:
Malor wrote:

The only pictures I've seen of him make him look like a total punk, a truly towering asshole. I think he may not survive long.

Agreed. If he hopes to stand any chance he must cut the same profile as his father.

Let's be clear: Kim Jung Il was also a punk and a (very short, yet) towering asshole.

The Washington Post believes that China, the U.S., and South Korean government all wanted to keep a repressive regime in NK.

I find the argument kind of bizarre, since Bush always seemed like he'd love bombing the sh*t out of North Korea's military if only he could do it without killing a lot of South Koreas, but I'd like to see some other opinions about this editorial. It really seems like a strange accusation to make.

Shame he died, the man could really drop some beats.

Funkenpants wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I'm thinking the best move at this point is a combination of food aid and an open door. Pressure is unlikely to have the desired effect of altering behavior in a positive manner and advancing a positive agenda may end up being counterproductive in the event that Jong Eun ends up the victim of a palace coup.

Isn't that the plan? When NK blew up a South Korean Navy corvette in 2010 and very little happened afterward, it was clear that South Korea and the rest of the world aren't looking to get aggressive.

It is and it isn't.

The attitude of the Lee Myung-bak administration has been a bit more confrontational than previous administrations. Joint military exercises with the US have been bigger and bolder than in years past and naval patrols around North Korean waters have been more frequent and aggressive. With the benefit of some historical perspective, the destruction of the South Korean corvette, though still inexcusable, is quite a bit easier to understand.

I think the single biggest challenge in viewing the actions of North Korea is that we tend to do so with an almost pathological absence of historical perspective. When we acknowledge that there is any history at all, we usually sugar coat it, paper it over, or wave our hands and say "that was 60 years ago". That makes real, lasting progress extremely difficult since the historical narrative is, in many ways, the most significant part of the ideological legitimacy of the North Korean regime.

Once again, I'm not excusing the conduct of the Kim family. Nor am I blaming us for the modern abuses of it. But what is occurring there is, in no trivial part, an example of the sins of our fathers and the legacy of our devil's deals in the era of anticommunism. One can only imagine how things might have turned out differently had we pursued justice instead of political expediency at the conclusion of WW2.

I'm actually starting to think that the best possible course of action would be the Ron Paul plan to yank our troops out of South Korea and give the North Koreans the bilateral security guarantees they demand. This would remove the threat of the American invasion that they claim is coming any day now and lay bare the argument for what it has become: an excuse to hold onto power.

But who am I fooling? No one in America would ever go for that.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Malor wrote:

The only pictures I've seen of him make him look like a total punk, a truly towering asshole. I think he may not survive long.

Agreed. If he hopes to stand any chance he must cut the same profile as his father.

That of an elderly woman.

IMAGE(http://cdn1.lostateminor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/kim-jong-il-looks-3.jpg)

Here he is being confused by this unfamiliar and foreign object (food).

By the way. Probably the funniest thing I've read on GWJ in a long time. Well done on both parts.

I don't often post in P&C, but when I do, I find the silver lining.

25 People Who Thought Lil Kim Died

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Shame he died, the man could really drop some beats.

I lol'd, thx for that.

Good night, funnyman.

oilypenguin wrote:

IMAGE(http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/12/19/C0044096-Korea_at_night%2C_satellite_image-SPL.jpg)

This is the Korean peninsula at night.

I believe that things will end up working themselves out.

It's called "going green." Maybe you've heard of it?

Capitalist scum!

Spoiler:

I stole this joke from the Onion...