The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Catch-All

Demosthenes wrote:

And a hat that instantly made you wanted everywhere. >.<

Yeah, but was super-useful in dungeons. I could see everyone...

Anyway, I jumped back in the other day after cleaning out/sorting my mod situation. I'm rolling with my usual sword/board scout setup, and am realizing how after 400+ hours and countless characters, this is absolutely my favorite way to play. Sneak around, take a shot or two with my bow, block/bash/swipe with my weapons, back-peddle and heal as needed, rinse and repeat until everything is dead. I crank my smithing up, keep my perk selection focused, and make liberal use of my shouts. It's straightforward, and a path I've gone down soooo many times, but goddamn if it isn't still amazing fun.

Question: has anyone opted to eschew the higher-level armor and weapons? I like the look of a lot of the mid-range stuff (modded and vanilla). I love scaled and steel plate, and even leather armor. Elven and glass just look silly, to be honest (at least on my character).

I've gone a bit more extreme by sticking to merchant-appropriate clothing (i.e. not armour) in my latest game. I've turned the HUD completely transparent and plan on starting an Imperial arms-running business based out of Solitude. Being a simple salesman, I avoided heading into Bleak Falls and took a cart straight to Solitude to get my official pardon from Tullius. I then declined the invitation to clear some fort of Stormcloaks in leiu of keeping the weapons and armour flowing to those that are up to the task. Cashflow is a problem at the moment, so I'm going to try my luck with some alchemical foraging and a few quiet Stormcloak camp raids to get my inventory together.

It's been a lot of fun so far and the lack of a HUD changes the game completely compared to the previous 120 hours I've spent with it. I have to rely on roads, signposts and the position of the sun in the sky now which makes things far more immersive. Only issue so far is accidentally stealing things when trying to read a book on a crowded table :p

Nicholaas wrote:

Anyway, I jumped back in the other day after cleaning out/sorting my mod situation. I'm rolling with my usual sword/board scout setup, and am realizing how after 400+ hours and countless characters, this is absolutely my favorite way to play. Sneak around, take a shot or two with my bow, block/bash/swipe with my weapons, back-peddle and heal as needed, rinse and repeat until everything is dead. I crank my smithing up, keep my perk selection focused, and make liberal use of my shouts. It's straightforward, and a path I've gone down soooo many times, but goddamn if it isn't still amazing fun.

Question: has anyone opted to eschew the higher-level armor and weapons? I like the look of a lot of the mid-range stuff (modded and vanilla). I love scaled and steel plate, and even leather armor. Elven and glass just look silly, to be honest (at least on my character).

Are you me? Am I you? That is a) the exact way I like to play, and b) my exact feelings about the high-end gear. I posted this the other day in the Dovahkiins thread:

I wrote:

15 months, 245 hours, level 78. Not looking too far off from what he did over a year ago. Well you know, you find a look you like and stick with it. I don't really like the crazy uber-fantasy of the high-end gear, and prefer a more real-ish low fantasy medieval adventurer look.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/p9yoesp.jpg)

DC Malleus wrote:

I've gone a bit more extreme by sticking to merchant-appropriate clothing (i.e. not armour) in my latest game. I've turned the HUD completely transparent and plan on starting an Imperial arms-running business based out of Solitude. Being a simple salesman, I avoided heading into Bleak Falls and took a cart straight to Solitude to get my official pardon from Tullius. I then declined the invitation to clear some fort of Stormcloaks in leiu of keeping the weapons and armour flowing to those that are up to the task. Cashflow is a problem at the moment, so I'm going to try my luck with some alchemical foraging and a few quiet Stormcloak camp raids to get my inventory together.

It's been a lot of fun so far and the lack of a HUD changes the game completely compared to the previous 120 hours I've spent with it. I have to rely on roads, signposts and the position of the sun in the sky now which makes things far more immersive. Only issue so far is accidentally stealing things when trying to read a book on a crowded table :p

That is some quality role-playing. I really like your idea of how to start the character. In fact, I might even... no! Just put... game down... Musn't... start... new... character...

I'm closing in on level 30 with my Wood Elf Sniper/Werewolf. I don't need to go beast mode very often these days, mostly because I'm now packing a Dawnbringer and can kill most enemies in a single sneak shot with my bow (killed a dragon with 3 from a crossbow). I haven't done any more of the Thieves Guild stuff; I've got access to a fence, master archery trainer, master sneak trainer, and plastic surgeon, and don't really need or want anything else out of them.

Finally made my way up to Solitude and saw an execution about to take place. I figured I probably shouldn't murder the executioner, so instead I interrupted it by jumping up on the platform. Everyone got mad at me, but I managed to run away without getting a bounty (as did the dude they were about to kill, so, mission accomplished?). I'm going to wait a few days and head back there, as I actually had some pressing business in that town.

Yeah, my story isn't very interesting compared to Malleus's.

Patch 1.9 Notes

Legendary sounds interesting if weird... so you reset the skill to 15... but... keep the perks, or lose the perks? *scratches head*

Either way, now that they're past the "we need to optimize the engine to make the game playable for everyone" phase, that is a lot of bug fixes. Glad to see some of them, as I have to find 3 books to fix the Jarl of Falkreath, who won't sell me my last Hearthfire house to get the Land Baron and Master Architect tropheys. Then only adoption, werewolf, and vampire to go.

I love the female vampire light armor. Looks like mage robes, but with way better protection, and my enchanting is maxed out so so I have +60 Health and Mana on it, and I can still wear the Atherian circlet.

Draco wrote:

I love the female vampire light armor. Looks like mage robes, but with way better protection, and my enchanting is maxed out so so I have +60 Health and Mana on it, and I can still wear the Atherian circlet.

I finished Dawnguard early yesterday, love the new armor you get from the forgotten Vale from the brother. Totally tried to kill the guy who started that quest to get his version of it only to discover he was not only essential... but un-attackable, which is interesting (literally, arrows went right through him, I could pick them up on the opposite side of the cave). Gotta improve those to see if I can stay at the armor cap... that and find an armor that matches them well.

Demosthenes wrote:

Patch 1.9 Notes

Legendary sounds interesting if weird... so you reset the skill to 15... but... keep the perks, or lose the perks? *scratches head*

"...return its Perks". Now do you mean you get the Perk points back, or just lose them? Sounds like the former, but I'll be finding out tonight.

That will definitely make hitting level 78 easier. *Sigh* Oh well, I got to enjoy some fireball-slinging.

Demosthenes wrote:

Patch 1.9 Notes

Legendary sounds interesting if weird... so you reset the skill to 15... but... keep the perks, or lose the perks? *scratches head*

Sounds like it could be gamed if you powerlevel a skill, put the perks from the level ups into another tree, keep the magic/health/stamina increases, do a reset, rinse, repeat. Other than that it's a nice way to uncap the game, as one thing I've found with the community uncapper is that certain skills, well, continue to improve above 100, so tempered armor becomes more and more effective, and so on, it seems like a nice way to balance that out.

I'm not really educated in such matters, but it looks like a lot of little fixes and not stuff which should break a lot of mods. USP will reduce it's scope and (hopefully) not a lot else.

Scratched wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Patch 1.9 Notes

Legendary sounds interesting if weird... so you reset the skill to 15... but... keep the perks, or lose the perks? *scratches head*

Sounds like it could be gamed if you powerlevel a skill, put the perks from the level ups into another tree, keep the magic/health/stamina increases, do a reset, rinse, repeat. Other than that it's a nice way to uncap the game, as one thing I've found with the community uncapper is that certain skills, well, continue to improve above 100, so tempered armor becomes more and more effective, and so on, it seems like a nice way to balance that out.

I'm not really educated in such matters, but it looks like a lot of little fixes and not stuff which should break a lot of mods. USP will reduce it's scope and (hopefully) not a lot else.

Conjuration comes to mind as an easy to game skill for anyone who doesn't regularly use it. Soul Trap on your horse (or if you can find one, a docile animal in the wild like a cow in some farms where for hours it's unwatched) will max that out in less than 20 or 30 minutes. The issue becoming the formula for how to hit a new level. Each level that amount of points increases, you could very quickly get to the point where you'd have to legendary a skill multiple times for a single level.

I guess the other side of the equation is what challenges do you face beyond 81. If you're becoming stronger against a static challenge, then who cares?

Finished Dawngaurd and bought dragonborn... I have never completed the civil war questline... which do you guys recommend I do next?

I have about 200 hours ingame and have only skipped thieves guild/ dark brotherhood (don't like being bad) and the civil war.

That's a pretty spectacular patch. My only disappointment is I don't see any specific note for fixing the Hearthfire crashes, but maybe those fall under "stability improvements."

I hope these don't bork my mods, because I still haven't installed that program that lets me deactivate them cleanly.

manta173 wrote:

Finished Dawngaurd and bought dragonborn... I have never completed the civil war questline... which do you guys recommend I do next?

I have about 200 hours ingame and have only skipped thieves guild/ dark brotherhood (don't like being bad) and the civil war.

Civil War isn't necessary for the Dragonborn questline. You only need to get to getting the Horn for the MQ for the Cultists to show up. There is an extra line or two of dialogue if you've beaten Alduin, but that's about it.

Scratched wrote:

I guess the other side of the equation is what challenges do you face beyond 81. If you're becoming stronger against a static challenge, then who cares?

Good point... there isn't really, I suspect Legendary skills were introduced specifically to allow those people who want to level to get to like the Legendary Dragons (killed 3 this weekend, even on master, not that much trouble) and the Ebony Warrior trophies without grinding to all get out, you can continue to level with your primary skills... though if the perks are reset, I could see that as being somewhat painful.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I hope these don't bork my mods, because I still haven't installed that program that lets me deactivate them cleanly.

I think you can run skyrim in another directory than the steam directory as long as steam is running to authenticate it. So you'd have c:\steam\steamapps\common\skyrim which you'd have as a up to date version, and another copy c:\somewhereelse\skyrim that you keep separate and just run tesv.exe or the SKSE loader. I haven't tested that though.

The things I'd expect to mess up are things that deal with scripts or modify things that the patch changes.

Scratched wrote:

I guess the other side of the equation is what challenges do you face beyond 81. If you're becoming stronger against a static challenge, then who cares?

It sort of sounds like "Prestige"-ing a skill (a la Call of Duty): if the skill becomes Legendary and goes back down to 15, then you're suddenly a lot weaker in that aspect: your weapons do less damage, or your armor protects less, or your spells cost more magicka, or you're easier to detect; and of course you lose all the skill's perks.

If I'm understanding it right, I can see it being a fun way to inject some life into an 81 character. You still get the tantalizing prospect of seeing a number go up—and what is an RPG without the ding of a level up?—and your health/stamina/magicka can increase, which is really the only way you get "stronger". In terms of your ability to affect the world, you're only building yourself back up to where you were before Legendary-izing a skill.

Plus there's the new Legendary difficult level.

(And I believe this is also a way to help players get to 78 easier so they can fight Legendary—there's the word again—dragons. In the long road from around level 65 onwards, I was hoping there could have been some kind of patch. Alas, too late for me! )

Edit: Tannhauser'ed by Demosthenes with that last point.

I do not really see the point of legendary skills. The game adjusts itself based upon your level, so if your level is artificially high, you are gimping yourself.

Demosthenes wrote:
Edit: Tannhauser'ed by Demosthenes with that last point.

I dunno if it's a great point though, well, it's a good point for both of us, bit I think I find Bethesda's solution somewhat lacking in execution... I mean, leveling like your primary combat skill, armor skill, and what not a second or third time to get enough skill points to hit those higher level bad guys would be a SLOG... I'd argue much more of a slog than just grinding out your other skills. Increasing past 100 would be good, starting over at 15 with no perks? Meh.

I would have done it. Increasing skills past 100 would make characters ridiculously overpowered. Resetting to 15 adds a bit of challenge to an already high-level character. Anyway it's the same slog as, say, sheathing your one-handed weapon to start using Destruction (at 15 with no perks); except you're already comfortable with one-handed weapons and have a good sword.

Plus Prestige-ing is pretty familiar to gamers, and CoD players give up way more than one skill to show off their 1337-ness.

Edit: Tannhauser'ed by Demosthenes with that last point.

I dunno if it's a great point though, well, it's a good point for both of us, bit I think I find Bethesda's solution somewhat lacking in execution... I mean, leveling like your primary combat skill, armor skill, and what not a second or third time to get enough skill points to hit those higher level bad guys would be a SLOG... I'd argue much more of a slog than just grinding out your other skills. Increasing past 100 would be good, starting over at 15 with no perks? Meh.

And really, getting more perk points or health/stamina/magicka is really pointless at level 81. I guess with enough perk points from legendarying your skills over and over and over, you could conceivably reach the point where you are a master of all trades with everything perked out... but that would be a RIDICULOUS number of levels you would need (something like 200ish?)... and those levels would be like orders of magnitude more to get each level than 78-81.

UESPWiki wrote:

XP required to level up your character = (Current level + 3) * 25

251 perk points total. So, to get that LAST perk point to max out everything (and this is one level only), you would need 6350 points... each skill increase gives you the new skill level number of points... so if you were leveling all of your skills from 99 to 100 (just that one skill level, not the full range from 15-100), you would need to do so 63.5 times. That's ridiculous. You could game it... why would you ever want to.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

I do not really see the point of legendary skills. The game adjusts itself based upon your level, so if your level is artificially high, you are gimping yourself.

Why do people keep asking for level cap increases in MMOs instead of just more late-game content? Some people just love the grind.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Why do people keep asking for level cap increases in MMOs instead of just more late-game content? Some people just love the grind.

That's true, but leveling up usually doesn't actually make you worse as it does in Skyrim.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Why do people keep asking for level cap increases in MMOs instead of just more late-game content? Some people just love the grind.

That's true, but leveling up usually doesn't actually make you worse as it does in Skyrim.

Though I guess some of those grinds would cause the 251 perk points from Skyrim to pale in comparison (I'm thinking of the Bronze Dragonflight rep grind in vanilla WoW, had a guildmate who solo-ed it just for the heck of it, which was pretty crazy).

Gravey wrote:

Are you me? Am I you? That is a) the exact way I like to play, and b) my exact feelings about the high-end gear. I posted this the other day in the Dovahkiins thread:

Twins. Separated at birth. Like DeVito and Arnold. That's the only explanation I can think of.

Right now I'm rolling with a modded Ranger's armor, which is little more than a re-skinned hide armor, leather boots and gauntlets, and a neat looking hood. I do indulge myself a little with my weaponry; I have Sting and an elven bow from a Lord of the Rings weapons mod, and a skyforge light shield from another mod. None of it seems overpowered, and fits into the look and feel of the world quite well.

Still, straight-up leather (or scale) armor, a skyforge axe, a solid shield, and a decent bow is really all I need.

I finally found my first Legendary Dragon, and the stupid thing glitched out on me! First it started flying really strangely after I hit it with Dragonrend, and then when it died the body didn't burn up. I didn't get the achievement, so I guess it didn't count as a proper kill.

On the plus side, I am now in charge of all the guilds. If anyone needs anything beat up, murdered, robbed, or magically incinerated, they have to deal with me.

muttonchop wrote:

I finally found my first Legendary Dragon, and the stupid thing glitched out on me! First it started flying really strangely after I hit it with Dragonrend, and then when it died the body didn't burn up. I didn't get the achievement, so I guess it didn't count as a proper kill.

On the plus side, I am now in charge of all the guilds. If anyone needs anything beat up, murdered, robbed, or magically incinerated, they have to deal with me.

Set the game to Master, suddenly that's all I was seeing from dragons.

I've been on master for a long time now, I just haven't been seeing a lot of dragons because I've been fast-travelling between cities trying to finish all those stupid Thieves' Guild jobs. I tracked down and murdered another Legendary Dragon, and the achievement popped this time.

Now I'm building houses and adopting orphans. Does the fact that I'm a vampire make that creepy? It seems a little creepy.

I'm absolutely enthralled with the game, but I keep hitting difficulty or comfort-zone walls:

1. Deliver the Dragonstone? But I don't want to have dragons pop up every three minutes. Isn't that what starts happening?
--> Means I can't buy the house in Whiterun.

2. I'll go to Riften! That's the next cheapest house.
--> Except Riften is an awful, depressing, pitiless place (though I hear Markarth is even worse). And the one real good I can do there -- take out the Skooma ring -- is stymied by the sudden appearance of a very high-level bandit boss.

3. Ooooh, the 7000 steps. That's really neat. Let's climb!
--> Snowy Saber Cat. And another. And another. Also, Frost Troll. NO ENLIGHTENMENT FOR YOU.

4. Companions! Yay, the fighters guild equivalent. Awesome guys.
--> DO YOU WANT TO JOIN THE BLOOD OF THE CIRCLE. What? No! Holy crap, what the -- No! Gah!

And so I just wander around the other places helping people. It's a shame, because it's all Misc quests. I feel that I've priced myself out of all four faction quest lines: Companions, yikes; College, not a mage; Thieves Guild, ugh, no; Dark Brotherhood, ew ew ew.

So I can either run through the main quest alongside everything else (but, endless random dragons), or I can do everything else first and then do the main. It was the exact same with Oblivion: I didn't want those portals popping up every few minutes spewing out random damage, so I explored all over first. Guess I'll do the same thing, but it means I won't see the main quest stuff until I -- and the world -- are very high level.

I still have all of the other cities and a ton of settlements to visit, so there's lots of game to be played. I just wonder if I'm only playing the less-interesting half of the game. Although perhaps with a game this size, that's not a bad thing on the time-budget.

You... don't want dragons all up ins? >_O (J/k. FWIW, dragons won't be appearing that often; they don't always agro and when they do it could be on the wildlife; and if it is you, you can always run or kite them to other wildlife or guards.)

You can also do the Mages College without any more magic than it takes to satisfy the woman on the bridge to get into the college in the first place. After that, it's all dungeon delving undertaken as you see fit.

There's plenty to do otherwise: the civil war, Daedric artifacts, and many many miscellaneous quests. I would say there's no "less interesting" half of the game. To me, the main quest wasn't a big draw anyway, story wise. (The Companions and Dark Brotherhood had the most interesting stories to me.)

And I had the exact same problem with the 7000 steps and I was trying to do the main quest: stuck on a rock outcropping, laying bricks in my pantaloons while wondering how I can get past that persistent frost troll (I ran: his territory wasn't that big after all).