The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Catch-All

As 0kelvin said, there don't seem to be a whole heap of third-party licensable engines that work well for open-world games: most of the best open-world titles seem to run on proprietary engines.

I suppose we'll just have to hope that Bethesda is better at working up an engine from scratch than modifying one to do stuff it was never intended to do.

hbi2k wrote:

I suppose we'll just have to hope that Bethesda is better at working up an engine from scratch than modifying one to do stuff it was never intended to do.

The thing is, there are open world Gamebyro games without the issues that bethesda games have. Bethesda is probably the highest profile user of Gamebyro, which is probably why it has the reputation. I guess that's a lesson that if you're a company licensing middleware, it's in your best interest to make sure the end result from your licensees is good as it reflects on your company.

Back in the Morrowind days Bethesda was one-game-at-a-time developer. After the success of Oblivion though they started working on more games at the same time and publishing other developer titles. And their parent Zenimax went and bought Arkane and iD.

If Bethesda's bread-and-butter are the open world, first person rpg games on the scale they try to do, it's only in their best interest to develop their own engine in-house - especially if the current one has some pretty big flaws. Hopefully, they got the right people working on this new engine. It's not the vision I'm worried about but the execution.

With iD working on Rage and Arkane rumored to be working on another first-person rpg like Arx, maybe they'll all use the same tech? I doubt it... but one can hope!

Scratched wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

I suppose we'll just have to hope that Bethesda is better at working up an engine from scratch than modifying one to do stuff it was never intended to do.

The thing is, there are open world Gamebyro games without the issues that bethesda games have. Bethesda is probably the highest profile user of Gamebyro, which is probably why it has the reputation. I guess that's a lesson that if you're a company licensing middleware, it's in your best interest to make sure the end result from your licensees is good as it reflects on your company.

I'm having trouble thinking of any other open-world games using Gamebryo except Bully, which operated on a much more limited scope than your typical Bethesda game and still had some pretty serious stability issues in the Xbox 360 version. Which games in particular were you thinking of?

hbi2k wrote:

Which games in particular were you thinking of?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebyr...
http://www.emergent.net/en/Clients--...

I can do a Wikipedia search as well as anyone, what I'm asking is, which games out of that list do you consider A.) as large and complex and open as a typical Bethesda game and B.) less glitchy than a typical Bethesda game.

Not trying to say you're wrong, I'm honestly curious because I haven't really played anything else on Gamebryo besides Bully and Civ IV (which isn't open-world).

Divinity 2 is quite open world, although I'll admit they're not doing exactly the same thing as Bethesda it does have wider world areas and dungeons spurred off those areas. There's a few aspects of the game that feel the same between the two, such as character animation. Div2 also has some well used terrain and walls to block your line of sight to other regions within the current area, which I think was to hide the loading of cells and to keep local detail levels up. Compared to Elder scrolls or Fallout, it's the most complex SP RPG I can think of using it, and while it's not a simple game it's a few steps below the Bethesda games.

I haven't played Warhammer online, but that would be the only game I would think approaching the complexity of ES/FO, and even then it's a very different game owing to it's online nature.

I don't know if it's a case where Bethesda are hammering an engine to do something right at it's limits, kind of like you could make an outdoor game with something like the DooM3/idtech 4 engine but it might not be ideal. I guess the short way to say it is there's nothing currently quite like the Bethesda games, perhaps a custom made engine specifically for their games is the best fit.

Scratched wrote:

I haven't played Warhammer online, but that would be the only game I would think approaching the complexity of ES/FO, and even then it's a very different game owing to it's online nature.

I have, and it is exceedingly buggy, or at least was when I last played about a year ago. MMO's tend to be more buggy anyway, though, so that may not necessarily mean much.

Simply subscribing...

Game Informer wrote:

As we prepare to help Bethesda unveil the first look at the next installment

Jesus, I don't harbour any illusions about what Game Informer does, but could they at least pretend they're journalists and not collaborative advertisers?

/gut response

Gravey wrote:

Jesus, I don't harbour any illusions about what Game Informer does, but could they at least pretend they're journalists and not collaborative advertisers?

/gut response

I can understand the gut response, but Bethesda has probably done what we do occasionally for big announcements, and given GI exclusivity on the print launch. Scarcity of information can create a bit more buzz and it encourages the magazine to take the story more seriously/devote more time and effort to it than they would if it was all just part of a press pack.

Then GI can write an article like this one, and tease the fact that they've got some exclusive content in order to sell a few more magazines.

Pretty standard practice all around.

GI had exclusive launch for Oblivion as well.

I currently am anticipating elder scroll 6 with the hope that its done on the rage engine... then again that engine isnt proven beyond its ios iteration. Still I can dream.

Supposedly the new engine is internal to Bethesda, and presumably they've been working on it since wrapping Fallout 3 (aka before the acquisition of Id) so it's unlikely that it's Rage.

True, hbi2k, but I imagine that's why he said TES6.

Oops. Durp. Well, we'll see then I suppose. Bethesda does seem to have a liking for re-using engines that they're familiar with, and there's no telling how adaptable Rage will be to large open-world games in any case, so it seems to me the most likely scenario will be that TES6 will be on the Skyrim engine (unless the Skyrim engine turns out to be ill-adapted to the next generation of hardware, which will likely be out by then).

From what I have seen of rage demos it looks like it does out door largish areas quite nicely. It also is capable of in door environments... Hopefully minus the load time at doors

I might be interested in this, since I've never played any of the TES games. AT ALL.

But I want to see a gameplay/engine demo before I commit any money to a likely collector's edition pre-order.

mikeohara wrote:

I might be interested in this, since I've never played any of the TES games. AT ALL.

But I want to see a gameplay/engine demo before I commit any money to a likely collector's edition pre-order.

FARNSWORTH!!

Good news, everybody! Kotaku has, via GI, the first bits of information on what Skyrim will be like.

First up, there will be dual-wielding. It sounds cool when you say it like that, but enh, it's just a more flexible equipping scheme (not actually an "enh"):

So, for example, you can put a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other. Or two daggers. Or a staff and a shield. Or a shield and a mace. For magic users, a different spell can be cast from each hand, or for a multiplying effect, the same spell can be thrown from both hands.

The magic ramification is interesting though. Otherwise, start designing your Dunmer Drizzzzzts now.

Second, no more classes! I hate classes in RPGs, and with TES's historic inclusion of six dozen plus the ability to create your own, this seems like a logical progression:

Replacing this, then, is an organic system of attribute growth based on use: the more you do something, the better you get at it. While this has long been a staple of RPG games, even dating back to the Quest for Glory series, but in Skyrim it's not just complementing a class structure, it's replacing it. . . .

You level up according to how you progress your most-used skills. "Raising one skill from 34 to 35 is going to level you faster than raising one from 11 to 12", Bethesda's Todd Howard tells Game Informer. If you stick to what you like/do best, you'll level up quickly. Conversely, if you want to take things slowly [or generalize], you can raise all or most of your skills. . . .

Continuing Bethesda's work with Fallout 3, each new level you gain in Skyrim will also give you a perk, which you can apply to give you added bonuses relative to how you want to play the game.

Finally, enemy scaling will be handled more like in Fallout 3 than Oblivion, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

mikeohara wrote:

I might be interested in this, since I've never played any of the TES games. AT ALL.

But I want to see a gameplay/engine demo before I commit any money to a likely collector's edition pre-order.

This video sums up the Elder Scrolls experience quite well.

Or this...

IMAGE(http://www.abload.de/img/oblivion8mo4.gif)

Sinatar wrote:

IMAGE(http://www.abload.de/img/oblivion8mo4.gif)

That's funnier than the time I got my head stuck in a horse for the duration of an entire conversation.

Yes, Gamebryo has great capability for winning:

So, Fallout with swords?

Sounds like they're hedging their bets a bit. There's some "wtf that isn't the elder scrolls" changes, and some safer ones, which isn't surprising.

I'm not quite sure what to think of the level/skills/class system yet as I haven't read the full details yet. In TES3/4 classes were more templates than really restrictive, it was the major/minor skills system that led to people leveling faster or slower than ideal in some cases, and your character level rather than the level of skills you were using for progression that determined your enemies.

TES in general really is the sum of the parts, and there's a lot of parts left to see.

Wait.... so they've (possibly) taken the worst part of a simplistic system like in Dungeon Siege 1 and combined it with the simplistic magic system in Fable 3... WTF? I thought that removing the ability to properly craft and enchant spells (along with levitation and stuff) in Oblivion was bad enough but now, dare i say it, the game just sounds SO oversimplified that it just seems like it's tailored completely to the console side of things. I mean... TWO spells? I have at least four buttons available to me above wasd (or esdf)..... It makes you wonder how blocking will work if mouse 1 and 2 are now used for fighting with their respective hands.

I hope these details are just really, really vague and unexplained.... otherwise i'm not liking the direction this is taking. I want at least deep-ish systems. What next? no inventory management (like in ME2) and limited equipment slots?

Duoae wrote:

I hope these details are just really, really vague and unexplained

That's where I am. I guess it's in the hands of the marketing department, and if I'm brutally honest I don't think most of the sales of TES5 come from people concerned about the details, especially with the whole PC:console sales ratios. They're following the money.

I'm not pleased with the lack of classes. Yes, it's the logical progression, but I had hoped they'd go in the other direction.

My favorite kind of games are the ones where you pick a class and then at certain points get to choose from two secondary classes, then later two tertiary classes, etc. The only example I can think of at the moment is Seiken Densetsu 3 (Secret of Mana 2 in Japan).

But yeah, I dig classes. I'll still buy this, of course.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I'm not pleased with the lack of classes. Yes, it's the logical progression, but I had hoped they'd go in the other direction.

My favorite kind of games are the ones where you pick a class and then at certain points get to choose from two secondary classes, then later two tertiary classes, etc. The only example I can think of at the moment is Seiken Densetsu 3 (Secret of Mana 2 in Japan).

But yeah, I dig classes. I'll still buy this, of course.

TitanQuest is another of that type..... even the original Diablo allowed 'multiclassing' from your primary class which made it more fun for me than D2 in that respect.

Manual scans have been leaked.
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Zynr8.jpg)
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