The Playstation Vita Catch-All

TheGameguru wrote:

Not sure what ditching the TV division would do.. the PlayStation division isn't making money either..

Ugh, how many times do I have to link this. Will someone please actually read it this time?

You're wrong, their Games division is profitable, look at the most recently released revenue statement (source). Sony is bleeding from their Mobile, Imaging, and Home Entertainment divisions. Seems pretty clear from that financial statement that what Sony, as an entire company, needs to do is stem the losses from those three divisions. Games isn't their most profitable division (that's, oddly enough, semiconductors) but it is making money.

So please, stop saying that SCE is not making money without first looking at the numbers.

ahrezmendi wrote:

Don't you dare tell cube I said any of this. ;)

To be fair, I do own a Vita, but I only paid $160 for the unit(would have been $200 for the unit and P4G, but the game was out of stock), because my brother won a huge OfficeMax gift card, and he wanted some cash. And there was an $40 off offer on OfficeMax.com.

Also, it Sony announces a price cut in 2 weeks, it'll be just a bit over 4 weeks after I bought the system. Sony, don't let me down. You've haven't failed so far.

ahrezmendi wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Not sure what ditching the TV division would do.. the PlayStation division isn't making money either..

Ugh, how many times do I have to link this. Will someone please actually read it this time?

You're wrong, their Games division is profitable, look at the most recently released revenue statement (source). Sony is bleeding from their Mobile, Imaging, and Home Entertainment divisions. Seems pretty clear from that financial statement that what Sony, as an entire company, needs to do is stem the losses from those three divisions. Games isn't their most profitable division (that's, oddly enough, semiconductors) but it is making money.

So please, stop saying that SCE is not making money without first looking at the numbers.

meh.. while EBIT is crucial I'm not sure its a slam dunk as you are painting it. Given this quarter should be as dismal I wouldnt be so hasty to proclaim the division as "profitable"

TheGameguru wrote:

meh..

Nice, way to completely dismiss my researched argument. I think we're done here.

cube wrote:
ahrezmendi wrote:

Don't you dare tell cube I said any of this. ;)

To be fair, I do own a Vita, but I only paid $160 for the unit(would have been $200 for the unit and P4G, but the game was out of stock), because my brother won a huge OfficeMax gift card, and he wanted some cash. And there was an $40 off offer on OfficeMax.com.

Also, it Sony announces a price cut in 2 weeks, it'll be just a bit over 4 weeks after I bought the system. Sony, don't let me down. You've haven't failed so far.

I know, you mentioned in the Wii U thread that you do have a Vita. It's just a bitter pill to swallow, as I'm sure you can understand. I've hardly put my Vita down since I got it, so I'm really disappointed that Sony has not only failed to turn it around, but has even had to cut expectations. I'm still looking forward to a bunch of games on it, but I'm no longer holding out much hope that the "Coming 2013" list will change.

Nice, way to completely dismiss my researched argument. I think we're done here.

I'm sorry but when you have a large multi-national company its simply far to easy to isolate in an earnings report Operating Income and say.. zomg the division is so profitable and the others suck. But companies that size don't operate in nice tidy vacuums like you must be assuming. Remove the consolidated purchasing power of all the divisions for some crucial components all of a sudden the Games Division COGS isn't as quite what it used to be... as well you or I have ZERO idea how that COGS is distributed in terms of division.. there arent exactly 100% hard fast rules for everything accounting item that makes it as neat and tidy as you want.

Besides.. the Games division isn't exactly knocking out the park where I would be comfortable with a blanket statement like you are making.

I'm with ahrezmendi. It's all about the bottom line for Sony right now. And if they were in the black consistently they could focus on putting money back into game development, cutting prices on the Vita, etc. If the Vita dies because they have 1,000 models of TVs that would be a shame.

No Guru, that's not playing fair. You said the games division wasn't making money, and I showed you they are. The question wasn't about whether or not the games division was keeping Sony alive.

My original statement was half-facetious, so I'll rephrase it with no joking. Sony needs to get control of the divisions that are bleeding them dry. As I stated earlier, this is Home Entertainment, Mobile, and Imagine Devices. Those 3 divisions alone had an operating LOSS of $370 Million, where as Games had an operating INCOME of $53 Million. If you'd read the actual revenue statement, you'd also see that it is broken down by Revenue and Income, so this is money Games brought in AFTER all their costs, aka Profit.

So don't go telling me that I'm making assumptions about Sony operating in a vacuum, or assuming that Revenue == Profit.

ahrezmendi wrote:

No Guru, that's not playing fair. You said the games division wasn't making money, and I showed you they are. The question wasn't about whether or not the games division was keeping Sony alive.

My original statement was half-facetious, so I'll rephrase it with no joking. Sony needs to get control of the divisions that are bleeding them dry. As I stated earlier, this is Home Entertainment, Mobile, and Imagine Devices. Those 3 divisions alone had an operating LOSS of $370 Million, where as Games had an operating INCOME of $53 Million. If you'd read the actual revenue statement, you'd also see that it is broken down by Revenue and Income, so this is money Games brought in AFTER all their costs, aka Profit.

So don't go telling me that I'm making assumptions about Sony operating in a vacuum, or assuming that Revenue == Profit.

From a layman's perspective I can see where you are coming from. As someone who has been in the Private Equity business for 11 years now I disagree with your blanket statements. I make a living doing Valuations and understanding how companies make money.. and not just from behind a desk. I'm in the muck with our businesses as acting CTO for 3 $100M+ firms right now. Given we've been in several companies with large scale manufacturing in China and Mexico I have a deep understanding of how businesses can hide operating profits from loss inside divisions that they are trying to shed. If your comfortable with your statement based on your facts that's fine. I take exception to you trying to school me on "reading comprehension"

That being said I certainly don't argue with your base statement. But I would caution any optimism around the Games Division.. Sony needs a home run in the PS4 in the worst way. Simply put they need the PS4 to sell like the PS2 given their current cost structures... and even then I'm afraid it might just be lipstick on a pig.

OK, I think we have an understanding now.

I'm not optimistic about the games division, the whole topic started on that. I'm mostly sad about having to face the reality that I may have bought a 2nd Dreamcast last year. I don't regret buying my Vita, and I'll keep playing it for years to come, but I would have preferred it do better and it's upsetting that it could have done better if Sony had acted differently.

Having a Vita glitch on you is the worse. You can't turn it off and it won't respond. I had to remove the game, memory card, and 3g card and boot into safe mode.

The times mine has locked up I've just had to hold the power button. I've never had to remove all the accessories. This taught me to shut the Vita down once a week, it seems to want a break periodically. Considering my phone does the same thing, as did my iPhone, I'm not upset about this. These devices are not meant to be on 24/7.

ahrezmendi wrote:

The times mine has locked up I've just had to hold the power button. I've never had to remove all the accessories. This taught me to shut the Vita down once a week, it seems to want a break periodically. Considering my phone does the same thing, as did my iPhone, I'm not upset about this. These devices are not meant to be on 24/7.

Ditto. Very informative response, I know.

Every time the, the Vita isn't doing well topic comes up, I get depressed. Then I remember how it gave me one of my best gaming years ever, last year. Then I get over it. True story!

Boooooooooo. That's too bad.

So what's everyone been playing recently on it other than lets fish, I need a new game for it feel.

thinkklinck wrote:

So what's everyone been playing recently on it other than lets fish, I need a new game for it feel.

After finishing Ni No Kuni coming out, I decided to jump into Jeanne D'Arc, and I'm now convinced that I need to go back and seek out more Level 5 games. Having only recently taken an interest in JRPG/SRPGs, I get the feeling that the games from Level 5 are worth revisiting.

I'm also pleasantly surprised to find that I'm digging the game for its game play too. Reading the JRPG catchall, it seems I have a huge number of games to keep me busy in the PSP catalog.

I'm still plowing through Persona 4 Golden. I'm at 67 hours now, have 5 social links at Rank 10, many others between 6 and 9, and I just hit 10/21. I'm hopeful I can max all the social links this game, but it'll be a close shave if I do. Once I'm done with that, I might just dive right into a 2nd play through, or I'm considering breaking to try New Little King's Story.

I find it crazy that I, having never EVER been been able to get into mobile gaming, am obsessed with my Vita and play it constantly, and yet it is having so much trouble getting a foothold in the market. Are we that niche? :/ I wonder if a nice stream of HD remasters like MGS would do gangbusters for holding over the Vita AND the Wii U for the kind of market they initially attract until they get their new games rolling out consistently.

I'm well and truly convinced that it's the price. I know I held that wasn't a factor before, but I was wrong. The market has proven time and again that the same game is what people want, so the issue isn't that the Vita has lots of ports/remasters. Hell, Wind Waker HD is now one of the most hotly anticipated Wii U titles, so that tells you something. It's really that $250 price point, so I guess what it comes down to is not that we're so niche, it's that we're so wealthy.

Or at least that's the way I'll think about it.

Now that I'm playing it, the new Sly Cooper is fantastic. If you're a fan of the series or platformers in general, this is probably a good game to pick up.

When you compare the price of the Vita to similar devices like iPods or iPads its price is fair but I guess compared to other gaming consoles it's a bit pricey.

I bought it at launch and still think it was tremendous value

Finally upgraded from 4GB to 32GB last weekend. Now that I have space for it along side Gravity Rush and P3P, DJ Max Portable 3 is all I can be bothered to play. It wouldn't even let me transfer my save over from my PSP, but I'll grind my way through it anyway.

interstate78 wrote:

When you compare the price of the Vita to similar devices like iPods or iPads its price is fair but I guess compared to other gaming consoles it's a bit pricey.

I bought it at launch and still think it was tremendous value

But the Vita is really mostly useful for games, whereas an iPad has multiple uses. People will compare the Vita to the other handheld out there, which is cheaper!

ahrezmendi wrote:

I'm well and truly convinced that it's the price. I know I held that wasn't a factor before, but I was wrong. The market has proven time and again that the same game is what people want, so the issue isn't that the Vita has lots of ports/remasters. Hell, Wind Waker HD is now one of the most hotly anticipated Wii U titles, so that tells you something. It's really that $250 price point, so I guess what it comes down to is not that we're so niche, it's that we're so wealthy.

Or at least that's the way I'll think about it. :D

I know that I personally really want a Vita, but I don't want to pay $250. I'd be much more willing to pull the trigger if it were cheaper.

ahrezmendi wrote:

I don't regret buying my Vita, and I'll keep playing it for years to come, but I would have preferred it do better and it's upsetting that it could have done better if Sony had acted differently.

Agreed. While I'd like to see new, grandiose Vita IPs released to take advantage of the system, I'm just as happy for the smaller "arcade" titles or re-releases. I'd love to see more PS1/PS2 games touched up and released so I could have the chance to play them this time (portable). I'm also sure to support current games like Zen Pinball and Super Stardust Delta (which I am in love with) I am anxious to see the future releases of Rocketbirds and the Capcom Arcade suite.

There is plenty out now and coming soon that will occupy us for years to come, but I'd feel much better about the extended lifespan of this product (re-releases, patches, OS updates) if the sales weren't in the toilet.

There's definitely a lot to play on the system. Looking at my dashboard I have 14 Vita titles, 5 PSP titles, and 4 PSOne Classics, and I don't have everything I own installed. Sure some of those are upgrades of older games (Metal Gear HD, Disgaea 3, P4G) but that just means they're portable and have more content, which I call a win. Then there are the unique ones I have (Ragnarok Odyssey, PSABR, Lumines, Hot Shots Golf, LittleBigPlanet) which are all great fun.

I've certainly bought consoles for less in the past (N64, which I bought exclusively for Ocarina of Time), so I'm very pleased with the Vita. I really hope Sony can turn things around and convince some 3rd party publishers to get on board. If they can't, at least get Santa Monica to make a God of War game for it, 'cause Ghost of Sparta was super fun.

I hadn't thought about the Vita memory prices until recently, and wow, I'm still really irked by them.

So for my 3DS, I recently (as in this week) purchased a high-end 32GB SDHC card (since Nintendo didn't pick a proprietary format) so I can stick with digital purchases for the most part.

Knowing that I want a memory card that's going to last long-term, I basically went with the luxury vehicle of SDHC memory cards, buying one of the higher-end brands that are a go-to product for photographers: a Lexar Professional class 10 SDHC memory card. Ran me just shy of $50, whereas you can get run-of-the-mill 32GB SDHC cards for around $20 if you're willing to take a risk on reliability.

In comparison, on my Amazon recommendations, the PS Vita 32GB memory card showed up, and I had forgotten how insultingly expensive it is: $90 Amazon price, $100 standard price.

So yeah... Sony is still charging roughly double the price of what it cost me to buy the same amount of memory from the Porsche equivalent of SDHC cards. Dammit Sony, wtf is wrong with you?

Farscry wrote:

So yeah... Sony is still charging roughly double the price of what it cost me to buy the same amount of memory from the Porsche equivalent of SDHC cards. Dammit Sony, wtf is wrong with you?

This is basically the main issue. Sony has spent the last 7 years frittering away a huge lead in the market. This trend won't likely stop until they really get their act together.

I completely forgot Sly Cooper was a thing on the Vita, next purchase. haha

Have any developers of the cross buy games ever stated how difficult it is to port from the Vita to the PS3, or vice versa?

The reason I ask is, would it be completely unreasonable for Sony to require all PS4 games to have a Vita port with Cross-Play/Save/etc.? If making a port was cheap enough, could it happen?