NBA Season 2011-2012

LeapingGnome wrote:

So the Knicks don't want to pay Lin because of the luxury tax hit in that big 3rd year could be as much as $15 million. How much in merchandising are they going to make off him? In only 20 games as a starter last year didn't they make something like $10 million? Seems like a dumb business decision to let him go.

I'm not sure the luxury tax or salary is the issue. Carmelo Anthony came out and called the Rockets' offer to Lin "ridiculous." Might be that there's some dissatisfaction among the vets to giving $25m to a guy that hasn't started 25 games.

DSGamer wrote:

Keep your heads up T'Wolves fans. Portland has the worst management.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8166952

Apparently Paul Allen is blocking a Batum sign and trade where the T'Wolves are dangling three 1st round picks and Derrick Williams. Based partly on being bitter that Minnesota is trying to claw back compensation for the Blazers not telling them Martell Webster was injured.

Yeah, I read that yesterday. Apparently, he's also mad that they signed Roy even though he was free to sign wherever he pleased.

Tyler Zeller is going to make some team regret not taking him earlier than #17. He's got a great mid range game and overall big man instincts. He's also good at directing the offense from the high post like you see sometimes with KG.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I don't think they're talking three picks AND Williams, I think it's one or the other. In any case, I'd rather they not get Batum at this point. Maybe there's something to his argument that he's been used wrong in Portland, but I'd rather maintain the cap flexibility heading into next offseason.

Plus, I've soured on the guy. Like I said earlier, if you want to pick where you play you sometimes have to wait.

Liking what I've seen from Andre Drummond so far. He's a ways off in terms of offensive skills but he's got great instincts and natural movement for a guy that size. There are flashes of brilliance, but he's terribly inconsistent so far. Again, though, he's only 18. And the defense I think is near-ready. Bites on a few too many pump fakes, guys like Al Jefferson will give him fits for a little while.

But most importantly, he's giving it all and playing long minutes. Probably the biggest question was his motor, and I can say for sure that it's revving high.

Finally, to all Knicks fans! Looking like the Knicks might not match the Rockets' offer sheet for Lin. With that in mind, here's some tweets from Bill Simmons. Pay them heed.

1. To the Knicks fans who keep asking: If you're going to switch allegiance to Brooklyn, it has to happen this summer. But I'm fine with it.

2. Here's the thing - Dolan is NEVER selling. The franchise will ALWAYS be screwed up. You have a 2nd NYC team and a legit excuse to leave.

3. If Celtics were in same situation (with a Dolan owner), I'd stop rooting for them and be an NBA widow unless there was a 2nd Boston team.

4. The important thing to remember - Dolan is a complete buffoon. You have a 12-year track record to examine now. He's an incompetent owner.

5. So you have to ask yourself... "Do I really want to spend DECADES of my life with my NBA fate tied to this guy?" You control that answer.

6. And if you're a diehard, loyal down-with-the-ship type fan, that's fine too... stay with the Knicks. Just saying you have an out here.

7. My buddy @housefromdc quit on Orioles because of Angelos (Dolan-esque). Baseball widow for years, now a huge Nats fan. Totally happy.

8. Last thought - I have a great deal of respect for Knicks fans (and NYK history + MSG). They deserve better...

Take note: I'm not saying they absolutely should keep Lin. But the way the franchise is run otherwise speaks for itself.

Just did an all-day marathon watching Game of Thrones Season 2. Pity there's no assassin I can hire to take care of Dolan. It's incredibly pathetic how he is destroying the reputation of the Knicks. It's amazing they had the rep they did, given the lack of championships. But now they're just a joke. So sad.

On further thought, I have come to the understanding that the Knicks are my punishment for my sins.

StaggerLee wrote:

On further thought, I have come to the understanding that the Knicks are my punishment for my sins.

They're a punishment for all of our sins. I'm one of those fans of the NBA that loves tradition and doesn't mind the Celts or Knicks being good. I hated the Riley Knicks even though I liked many of their players, so maybe this is payback for those years. But otherwise I think it's good for the league when the Knicks are good. Storied franchises being lottery teams perpetually isn't something I enjoy, honestly. So I feel for you guys. And the sad thing is that you lucked into a fun lineup last season. They wouldn't have won a title, but there was team chemistry, you were getting production out of castoffs and role players. That was exciting and I was severely tempted to take a flight from Oregon to NYC so I could watch the team in the Garden, one of my favorite sports stadiums.

Now? No. Not going to fly to NYC for alcoholic Jason Kidd, black hole Melo and Raymond Felton. No thanks. I loved this from Twitter yesterday.

Bill Simmons ‏@sportsguy33 wrote:

After winning over the Asian community with Jeremy Lin, the Knicks now expect to win over fat people with Ray Felton.

DSGamer wrote:
Bill Simmons ‏@sportsguy33 wrote:

After winning over the Asian community with Jeremy Lin, the Knicks now expect to win over fat people with Ray Felton.

Oh sad. But true.

barf.

Two weeks ago they were supposedly in the Nash sweepstakes and now here we are.

Kidd dui, Felton who cost Jefferies and Lin is gone.

Stolen from over at Deadspin.

From a purely basketball standpoint, there are very few fans and GMs who would take Raymond Felton over Jeremy Lin (and Jared Jeffries!). But Houston's offer sheet to Lin, with that massive $15 million salary in the third year, makes this about a lot more than basketball, or Linsanity. As the Knicks are currently constructed, Jeremy Lin would cost them about than $58 million in 2014-2015.

I love/loathe salary caps. Love because the craziness it creates is interesting. Loathe because it exists to save billionaires from their own stupidity. I'm always for rich people giving away their wealth because they are dumb as anyone should be for that.

Its always interesting to see where leagues come out the other end. Especially if the changes are significant. GM's will find new clever ways to work the system. Its like real time economics in action. When the NHL came out of their lockout it became apparent the way the GM's would get around the new rules was to pay players until they were grandfathers. In the new NBA CBA one of the new strategies is to create contracts that are back loaded into the new salary cap penalties making it extremely painful to resign restricted free agents.

Not entirely sure how the restriced FA system works but you would think the Knicks (in a sane world with a CBA that makes sense) would of been still able to offer Lin a different contract with same years/money just in a different yearly amounts so they didn't get pillaged in year 3. Or even sign him to a longer contract for more money that would of helped avoid the penalties.

Wonder if going forward will we see teams trying to wrap up restricted free agents early to avoid the dreaded nutty offer sheet that has a heavily loaded year that would cause crazy tax penalties.

edit: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...

Nate Silver says keeping him is still the best financial decision.

I wonder if this changes Jason Kidd's interest in being in NYC. I had assumed he wanted to be on the Knicks in part to mentor Jeremy Lin. Seemed like the kind of thing an aging PG would appreciate. Felton's 28 and doesn't have the upside that Lin does. Is that less enticing for Kidd? Will he not be the engaged leader he needed to be as a result?

This all of course assumes he doesn't serve any time for being an ass-hat who drunkenly drives into trees.

StaggerLee wrote:

Will he not be the engaged leader he needed to be as a result?

This all of course assumes he doesn't serve any time for being an ass-hat who drunkenly drives into trees.

So yea. Not sure if we can qualify him as a leader considering so far as a Knick hes done only that.

He has a checkered history that for some reason doesn't get brought up much but maybe when it comes to the locker room hes solid? I have no idea but yea his extracurricular activities could be disastrous.

DSGamer wrote:

Storied franchises being lottery teams perpetually isn't something I enjoy,

I'm always baffled by the reverence the Knicks get. What have they ever done to be considered a storied franchise?

Trophy Husband wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Storied franchises being lottery teams perpetually isn't something I enjoy,

I'm always baffled by the reverence the Knicks get. What have they ever done to be considered a storied franchise?

Pure age alone of a franchise can do that. Theres automatic respect in hockey for the original 6.

Trophy Husband wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Storied franchises being lottery teams perpetually isn't something I enjoy,

I'm always baffled by the reverence the Knicks get. What have they ever done to be considered a storied franchise?

Playing in New York is part of it. Playing in the Garden is part of it. And then they had some classic players like Clyde Frazier, Willis Reed, etc. I'll grant you that in terms of titles they aren't Boston. They aren't even Philadelphia or Miami. However, they are a founding member of the NBA. That should count for something.

LOL, the NBA has tenure =P

On a serious note, I don't think it hurts the NBA to have the Knicks suck. I do think it is key that other historic franchises do well to compensate. Unfortunately, I can't think of any other franchises to add to the list: Celtics, Lakers, Sixers, Knicks...

Chicago? Detroit can DIAF. The Spurs have been good for a long time but I don't get any sort of history from them. I have liked the Pacers ever since they got rid of Detlev Schrempf and hired Larry Bird. Dallas or Houston maybe? The Bucks?

I think my nostalgia is creating too much bias.

[/quote]

Wow, what?

Lol @ Fat Ray Felton.

Okay, check this out.

Short version: Madison Square Garden, Inc. saw their stock drop 64 cents per share amid speculation that Lin will not be retained by the Knicks, which equates to a total of around $49 million. That'll likely change, but still.

So the Lakers are in meetings with the Magic for negotiations on a Dwight Howard trade.

I think the Lakers have a lot to give to get him but may not have to give up that much seeing as the Magic want to get something for him. Even if they had to give up Gasol, Bynum and a role player, I think they should do it.

Nash, Kobe, Howard and some rookies and role players is a damn fine team. I think this is another way that Nash is an asset. He increases the value of the whole bench regardless of talent level or promise.

DSGamer is prophetic though in that in exchange for a couple of championship runs, the Lakers have a real chance to lose Kobe and Nash to retirement and Howard to contract (I don't see them being able to sign him for more than 2 years)

I heard a mini-podcast on SheridanHoops regarding Howard's situation and from what they said, he has this dream of becoming not just a superstar but a *cultural icon*. He has resisted going to LA because he feels like he'd be in the shadow of Kobe most immediately, competing with Blake Griffin in the future, and all the other stars out there, be they in film or sports or whatever. He feels his shot at this is in the greater New York area.

All that said, I think if they pulled off a trade he'd end up sticking around. People never seem very anxious to leave the Lakers.

From the Magic's POV, if I took the Lakers' trade I would likely flip both Gasol and Bynum for other pieces. Gasol's too old to help in the rebuild, but good enough to hinder it. Bynum's an unrestricted free agent after next year, he could bolt, and even if that weren't the case you're just exchanging one nut-job for another. Bynum might be just as bad, maybe Kobe's been reeling him in all these years.

I think ultimately Houston is the right answer for the Magic, and the team is the party I'm pulling for most in this situation. Royce White, Jeremy Lamb, Terrance Jones, Donatas Motiejunas, Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons, Marcus Morris - they have a lot of assets there. I think if I'm the Magic I'm taking the Raptors' pick next year, plus two of the Rockets' picks, with Motiejunas, White, Patterson and either Lamb or Jones. If the Magic are sold on Bynum he's the obvious choice, but I wouldn't be if I were running the team. Their new GM comes from the OKC organization and believes in character-first guys.

I don't see why the Magic would want Bynum, Gasol and a role player. The Magic want young players with good contracts and draft picks. Without that, I would shocked to see a deal go through. Why would they want Bynum, who's going to be in the same position as Howard next offseason and isn't even as good?

Leverage. As in, they have little.

I don't really know enough about the current Magic team to comment on what would be a better fit for them. Howard leaving would leave a big void at that position so if you have something to put in there, for however long you need, I think that is a good thing.

I am starting to lean against this trade. I think the Lakers should stick it out with what we've got and try and pick up some youngish flyers. If you have to give up Bynum to get some better flyer/defenders then so be it. Gasol can step up his defensive toughness with proper motivation and with help from MWP he can hold his own with any center in the league. (Odom would help here too... damn it)

I hope that crap about LA vs. NY isn't really in Howard's head. It makes no sense. The Lakers have the most prestige of any sports team in Southern California. They are teh kings of LA. While in NY he would be competing against the Yankees, the superbowl champion Giants, Broadway stars in addition to movie and television stars, rap moguls, high rolling bank and investment tycoons, etc. It makes no sense.

StaggerLee wrote:

The Magic want young players with good contracts and draft picks.

Bynum is still pretty young, only going to be 25 in October, and most player development specialists think he'll be just as good as Howard within 2-3 years. I think that's why people speculate that the Magic would want him, but yeah, I don't think this happens without him inking a big extension beforehand. Also, the Lakers shed most of their picks in the Nash trade.

fangblackbone wrote:

I don't really know enough about the current Magic team to comment on what would be a better fit for them. Howard leaving would leave a big void at that position so if you have something to put in there, for however long you need, I think that is a good thing.

Yeah, but like I said his deal only runs through next year. Bynum is under no obligation to resign there other than money, and rolling the dice on that is very iffy when compared to a package of Houston players.

fangblackbone wrote:

I hope that crap about LA vs. NY isn't really in Howard's head. It makes no sense. The Lakers have the most prestige of any sports team in Southern California. They are teh kings of LA. While in NY he would be competing against the Yankees, the superbowl champion Giants, Broadway stars in addition to movie and television stars, rap moguls, high rolling bank and investment tycoons, etc. It makes no sense.

You can listen to that mini podcast here, click the play button below the July 14th headline. The situation they talk about has been hinted at before, from multiple sources. When Howard said he was "blackmailed" by the Magic into signing an extension, rumor had it they had a deal finished to send him to LA but he was so strongly against it that he signed. I haven't heard any other good reasons why he'd refuse to play anywhere other than Brooklyn, so I am inclined to believe it.

Overall, I think the deal only happens with extensions for both Bynum and Howard beforehand. Either guy could muck that up, and I think the Magic might balk anyway. Houston's offer is just more enticing (Houston will also take Turkoglu and J-Rich's bad contracts), I think, and Houston doesn't have the extension demand.

Edit: I feel like a tool now, having posted that and just reading that the ESPN piece says pretty much the exact same thing.

It's my understanding that it's in both of their best interest to sign extensions at the time of the trade. If they don't they both lose their Bird rights and a significant chunk of money on their next extension.

Trophy Husband wrote:

It's my understanding that it's in both of their best interest to sign extensions at the time of the trade. If they don't they both lose their Bird rights and a significant chunk of money on their next extension.

I don't know the exception rules well enough, but I was always under the impression that bird rights transfer and that they can sign a full max regardless of when the signing happens in relation to a trade. I could be wrong about it, though.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Trophy Husband wrote:

It's my understanding that it's in both of their best interest to sign extensions at the time of the trade. If they don't they both lose their Bird rights and a significant chunk of money on their next extension.

I don't know the exception rules well enough, but I was always under the impression that bird rights transfer and that they can sign a full max regardless of when the signing happens in relation to a trade. I could be wrong about it, though.

Looks like you're right Bird rights transfer with a trade. You lose your Bird rights if you're traded prior to accumulating the required tenure, but once you've earned the Bird rights it transfers with a trade. Could give the teams some leverage when it's time to re-sign next year though.

And it's official. The Knicks hate freedom.

Freedom to commit turnovers!

The thing that galls me is that Anthony, JR Smith and the rest of those a-holes won. They won. They got their way by basically declaring that they were ready to make the locker room absolutely toxic if the Knicks signed Lin. They deserve each other. I hope they make the lottery every year and Carmelo leaves the NBA without a title. Congrats, I officially dislike you (Anthony) more than I disliked LeBron. Quite a feat.

Trophy Husband wrote:

Could give the teams some leverage when it's time to re-sign next year though.

It does, but in these high profile cases that usually gets negated by the players' leverage, which is derived of their own value as a superstar.

Their team can't afford to let them walk and get nothing from it, but they have to trade by the player's rules to get the most value possible. It's really a no-win situation. Playing ball with Houston against Dwight's wishes, the offer would be better for Dwight, theoretically, if they knew he would be there for the next five years.

On the other hand, the Nets are not in a good position to offer the Magic much in terms of:

salary relief (very little wiggle room after the Joe Johnson trade),

talent (Brook Lopez and Marshon Brooks resulted in 22-44 for the Nets, even WITH Deron Williams),

OR picks (because Dwight + Deron + Wallace + Johnson is never going to result in a lottery pick, supposedly).

DSGamer wrote:

The thing that galls me is that Anthony, JR Smith and the rest of those a-holes won. They won. They got their way by basically declaring that they were ready to make the locker room absolutely toxic if the Knicks signed Lin. They deserve each other. I hope they make the lottery every year and Carmelo leaves the NBA without a title. Congrats, I officially dislike you (Anthony) more than I disliked LeBron. Quite a feat.

where are you getting this perspective from?

mine is the Knicks balked at the potential cost while totally ignoring what Lin makes you in merchandising. You know cause Dolan is a massive retard.