Forza 4: Catch-All

Thin_J wrote:

...and you clearly don't have cars bunched up in the same places as the driver you're competing against.

Yea this pretty much killed any events with traffic in them for me when my rival flew through a big clump of cars that I had no clean way of passing. I haven't played this in so long. I bet I have lost all of my top spots on the drifting rivals mode.

It is kind of bogus but if you do 15-16 laps you usually end up with at least one with a clear path.

I actually like the traffic as a feature of "the Rally Wild Show" top gear challenge. I haven't played too many other challenges with traffic, so I am not sure how I feel about it overall. I think having traffic forces you to be able to react, not just know the fastest line in ideal situations, but be able to find the fastest line on this lap of this track with this traffic. That said, I'm glad a lot of the rivals challenges do not have traffic.

My problem with it is as a rivals event. It just doesn't work. You end up grinding out twenty laps waiting for the other traffic to cooperate. It's not rewarding the better driver, it's rewarding the guy with the patience to sit there and grind out twenty or thirty laps or whatever it ends up taking for the traffic to finally cooperate and open up at the right times.

It's just a bad design for that kind of singleplayer with leaderboards "challenge" type event. It's not a real challenge, it's a luck based time waster. If I can pull ahead by full seconds on the first lap when the ghost car I'm running against clearly had run a lap already and shot ahead by a couple of turns in the first seconds, I know I'm the better driver, but hitting the big ball of traffic in the last couple of turns, losing the lead, and watching the ghost slide happily through all the cars blocking my way lap after lap at the same couple of points toward the end of a track is a sign of some bad design. Period.

I still want a racing game that is about motorsport itself, not about just collecting cars.

I'd like an optional career mode that was an actual racing career.

Start out in autocross. In a crappy car - a 1991 CRX or something. Get noticed by a single, low dollar sponsor. You are required to put their sticker on your paint job, and you can't put competitor's stickers on there.

After a season or two of autocross or track days, get asked to do an SCCA-style event where you actually do wheel-to-wheel racing. You have a budget for each event, and upgrading the car too much will bump you into a class you don't have a license for. So you save your dollars for repairs and tires and entry fees.

Succeed in the low level events (also, remembering that for racers success isn't always a first place finish), and you will obviously be invited to a higher class event - time to either really mod that CRX, or ditch it all together - if you've done well enough to get a sponsor who can provide you a car. Real race car drivers don't just swap cars and series willy-nilly.

Eventually, let me work up to a real, licensed series like ALMS or the BTCC.

Let there be pit stops and roaring crowds. Give me the excitement of actual races. I want a spotter who radios me, "Hey, Johnson is coming up fast. He's pretty reckless, be careful if he tries to pass - let him make his own mistakes." I want a customizable driver who shows up on the podium at the end of the race, spraying champagne and cheering. Let me get invested in my career and my racer, rather than feeling like I'm collecting cars like Pokemon for a series of unconnected races that feel more like hot laps with other cars.

If you've ever been to a race, you know that Forza is nothing like it. Nothing at all. I've never raced, but I've been in the crowds, smelled the gas, been deafened by the exhaust pipes (or lack of!), watched the wrecks, stood in line for autographs, etc.

Where is a game that gives me that?

InspectorFowler wrote:

Where is a game that gives me that?

iRacing.com

MannishBoy wrote:
InspectorFowler wrote:

Where is a game that gives me that?

iRacing.com

Probably the closest example there. The GTR games give you a good single championship feel. But, the problem here is the sheer amount of time you have to dedicate to achieve proficiency to compete. That makes it extremely tricky to come up with something a narrative that also has depth. No racing game has really nailed that. I also don't think it would ever work as multiple series as you describe, InspectorFowler. But, I could see an interesting focus on something tighter, maybe an SCCA to ALMS progression with ALMS as the true focus of the game? But, would endurance racing ever truly work if you were to present it realistically? I would love it. The 99.999999999% others would not.

Stick with iRacing and make up your own narrative;-)

Here's the thing, though:

Forza 4 already has all the cars and a lot of the courses.

This could be an optional mode. It wouldn't be a lot of work - it's mostly just text interfaces! Get bored with this, back out to "World Tour" mode and spend your time ramming the Veyron backwards into other cars again. Just because this one mode locked you into a progression with few car/class changes doesn't mean that the whole wide world of Forza wouldn't be out there.

Hell, make it a $30 expansion that includes some new real world tracks to accommodate some real racing series, and some licensing, and I'm on board.

iRacing sort of sucks for me because it's all multiplayer. Man, I don't need to get my ass kicked by the dude with $3,000 to spend on three huge monitors, an expensive wheel, and a chair. If I had $3,000 to blow, I'd have a nomex suit, a helmet, a new set of wheels, and I'd be going to racing school this April. I play video games to escape from reality, and it's not much of a break from reality for me to get my ass whupped over and over in a racing game

MannishBoy wrote:
InspectorFowler wrote:

Where is a game that gives me that?

iRacing.com

TOCA 2 had that feeling of a career, though not to the degree of depth or realism that Fowler is asking for. TOCA 3, Grid? I know iRacing is in a league of its own (or at least a league of very few other games) when it comes to simulation, but it doesn't really do the career thing, does it?

Otherwise the closest I can think of is games that model seasons like F1 2011... Dirt 2? I'd just love Codies to get the WRC license and do a proper rally game with a season mode like F1 (not having played F1), but with services, persistent damage, driver/co-driver injuries, limited parts, relationships with other teams to borrow or lend parts, etc. This is the "post your fantasy racing game" thread isn't it?

InspectorFowler wrote:

iRacing sort of sucks for me because it's all multiplayer. Man, I don't need to get my ass kicked by the dude with $3,000 to spend on three huge monitors, an expensive wheel, and a chair. If I had $3,000 to blow, I'd have a nomex suit, a helmet, a new set of wheels, and I'd be going to racing school this April. I play video games to escape from reality, and it's not much of a break from reality for me to get my ass whupped over and over in a racing game :)

Actually, you should see the rigs of the top tier. Some of them are rocking a 14 inch CRT with a G25 strapped to their card table, sitting on a bar stool. Seriously. What they do have over me and you is time. But, there is no correlation between success in iRacing and an expensive set-up, however much it pains me to admit that. Right, now my $3,000 set-up sits there in my man-cave while I am traveling for work once again:-(

I recently shared my D350 RS1800 (the one I used in the All Modifieds Attack Tsukuba rivals challenge). I am interested in what people think of it, and if others find it simultaneously as rewarding and frustrating to drive. Rewarding because the handling is incredible, frustrating because the tires never get up to temperature, and more importantly it not only has classic rally looks, but also a rally like tendency to not always stay shiny side up.

Arise, zombie thread! I haven't fired up Forza in a while, but I thought some of you might be very interested in this little tidbit I found in my RSS feeds this morning:

Major Nelson wrote:

“Forza Motorsport 4” (Turn 10 Studios) – Available this Spring, the Porsche Expansion Pack for “Forza Motorsport 4” will contain 30 modern and classic Porsche vehicles from the iconic German manufacturer, seven of which are new to the “Forza” franchise.

That is cool.

What I really want, though, is my car in the game. I don't see a good reason that there is not a Mazda6 V6 in the game. It just seems like an odd oversight.

Any word if that will fall under the season pass or not?

LiquidMantis wrote:

Arise, zombie thread! I haven't fired up Forza in a while, but I thought some of you might be very interested in this little tidbit I found in my RSS feeds this morning:

Major Nelson wrote:

“Forza Motorsport 4” (Turn 10 Studios) – Available this Spring, the Porsche Expansion Pack for “Forza Motorsport 4” will contain 30 modern and classic Porsche vehicles from the iconic German manufacturer, seven of which are new to the “Forza” franchise.

Woo, and after checking GWJ right now, I was actually just about to read the Wikipedia article on RUF to find out which one in FM4 is closest to a GT3 RS—no need now! Nice to know EA and Turn 10 could work something out; now I can also buy the Porsche DLC for Hot Pursuit with a clear conscience.

LiquidMantis wrote:

Arise, zombie thread! I haven't fired up Forza in a while, but I thought some of you might be very interested in this little tidbit I found in my RSS feeds this morning:

Major Nelson wrote:

“Forza Motorsport 4” (Turn 10 Studios) – Available this Spring, the Porsche Expansion Pack for “Forza Motorsport 4” will contain 30 modern and classic Porsche vehicles from the iconic German manufacturer, seven of which are new to the “Forza” franchise.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I posted a post in the True Achievements thread about working together to earn the Ferrari Collector and Exclusive Taste cheevos. If you're interested, click your finger here.

zeroKFE wrote:

Any word if that will fall under the season pass or not?

No, in fact it will cost $20.00 or 1600 MS points.

Serenj wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:

Any word if that will fall under the season pass or not?

No, in fact it will cost $20.00 or 1600 MS points.

that's probably to pay the EA bill...

I have no problem paying for it as long as we get the ALMS Porsches.

Any ideas what this Forza Horizon thing is about? Is it an arcade style racer or a Forza game were you drive to raves or what?

Haven't had a chance to watch the trailer, but given the pedigree listed for the team making it (which included TOCA, Colin McRae, and DIRT) I'm hoping it will be Forza style game design applied to disciplines like rally racing.

Does the trailer suggest anything at all?

EDIT:

The official verbiage from forzamotorsport.net:

Forza Horizon is being developed by Playground Games in collaboration with Turn 10 Studios. Playground Games is an independent UK game development studio formed in 2009. It was founded by the leadership team responsible for award-winning racing franchises like TOCA, Colin McRae Rally, GRID, and DiRT. Over the past two years the studio has enhanced its core team with experienced developers from Bizarre Creations, Black Rock Studios, Slightly Mad Studios, Criterion Games, Rockstar North, and Ubisoft Reflections, among others. Today, Playground employs more than 100 staff at its headquarters in Royal Leamington Spa, working exclusively on Forza Horizon.
zeroKFE wrote:

Haven't had a chance to watch the trailer, but given the pedigree listed for the team making it (which included TOCA, Colin McRae, and DIRT) I'm hoping it will be Forza style game design applied to disciplines like rally racing.

Does the trailer suggest anything at all?

Does someone else want to break it to him?

It suggests the party-extremo of Dirt 2 combined with the douche factor of TDU2. It's got quite the personnel behind it for such an awful teaser.

It suggests the party-extremo of Dirt 2 combined with the douche factor of TDU2.

Well, balls.

zeroKFE wrote:
It suggests the party-extremo of Dirt 2 combined with the douche factor of TDU2.

Well, balls.

Admittedly, that's all I got from a 1-minute live-action teaser. But if that's the tone Playground wants to set—flashy cars, parties, young people having young persons fun—then I know not to be interested. I do like the big desert roads though, but I already have those in Hot Pursuit.

Gravey wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:
It suggests the party-extremo of Dirt 2 combined with the douche factor of TDU2.

Well, balls.

Admittedly, that's all I got from a 1-minute live-action teaser. But if that's the tone Playground wants to set—flashy cars, parties, young people having young persons fun—then I know not to be interested. I do like the big desert roads though, but I already have those in Hot Pursuit.

Yea I am thinking this is the Forza game for the Need For Speed Underground fans. Not sure how that makes me feel about it since I liked the idea but not the execution of Underground.

I just want to know why I wasn't informed that the March car pack includes Ford's '66 Country Squire.

IMAGE(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2012/03/1966fordcountrysquire01wm_530x298.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/03/forza-4-march-pirelli-car-pack-country-squire.jpg)

Just sent a message to the GWJ car club asking for an invite. Are you guys playing during any certain time or day? I'm not very good, but it's always fun playing with goojers.

fogrob wrote:

Just sent a message to the GWJ car club asking for an invite. Are you guys playing during any certain time or day? I'm not very good, but it's always fun playing with goojers.

I'll add you tonight. I'm finally back home to my shiny new CSR Elite!

Gravey wrote:

I posted a post in the True Achievements thread about working together to earn the Ferrari Collector and Exclusive Taste cheevos. If you're interested, click your finger here.

I added what little I have. I thought I might have had the Aston, but I don't.

ElectricPi wrote:
Gravey wrote:

I posted a post in the True Achievements thread about working together to earn the Ferrari Collector and Exclusive Taste cheevos. If you're interested, click your finger here.

I added what little I have. I thought I might have had the Aston, but I don't.

Perfect, thanks for doing that! If you buy anything else just remember to update the doc. I'll check it regularly.