WoW 5.0 - Mists of Pandaria

My sympathies to the raid leader who tries to get a ready check while half the raid finishes apokemon battle.

Youko wrote:

but it doesnt feel like wow at all... if no one had told me about this expansion before i log on, i wouldnt kno it was wow lol

This is how I felt upon hearing the info about this xpac. Cata got me to buy back in for a bit and scratch the nostalgia itch. Some of it was interesting, some of it was underwhelming in certain zones. It got me to resub to an mmo I hadn't played in a few years and it wasn't enough to hook me back into the lenghty gear grind, but they got my money back by offering exploration and making Azeroth interesting again. Mists seem to be appealing to another gamer crowd: collect 'em all micro-transactions for mini-pet battles and action-rpg players with an oddball class in the monk. I guess I am just an old curmudgeon who wishes they would retcon everything after vanilla WoW, give it an art/graphics update, make a lot of the old world zones more influential, and do a better job with their characters/storyline.

Coldtouch wrote:
Youko wrote:

but it doesnt feel like wow at all... if no one had told me about this expansion before i log on, i wouldnt kno it was wow lol

This is how I felt upon hearing the info about this xpac. Cata got me to buy back in for a bit and scratch the nostalgia itch. Some of it was interesting, some of it was underwhelming in certain zones. It got me to resub to an mmo I hadn't played in a few years and it wasn't enough to hook me back into the lenghty gear grind, but they got my money back by offering exploration and making Azeroth interesting again. Mists seem to be appealing to another gamer crowd: collect 'em all micro-transactions for mini-pet battles and action-rpg players with an oddball class in the monk. I guess I am just an old curmudgeon who wishes they would retcon everything after vanilla WoW, give it an art/graphics update, make a lot of the old world zones more influential, and do a better job with their characters/storyline.

I would resub in a heartbeat if they did this.

I think one big problem they have is that most zones are just 'a place to level' rather than part of a world. They're partly bound to this though with the expansion pack model that unlocks certain areas. I don't think you could make the world a big playground for all levels all the time without major changes.

It doesnt matter how hard they try, some ppl just dont give a crap about the quest text, all they want is to accept the quest and have a addon point them to where they need to go... any zone would be just a place to lvl for them... and i am totally one of those ppl lol.

They got me back with the sub / free D3 and Pandaren. I'd gotten out of WoW but I'd always said I'd be back with the Pandaren.

doctre wrote:

They got me back with the sub / free D3 and Pandaren. I'd gotten out of WoW but I'd always said I'd be back with the Pandaren.

Youko wrote:

It doesnt matter how hard they try, some ppl just dont give a crap about the quest text, all they want is to accept the quest and have a addon point them to where they need to go... any zone would be just a place to lvl for them... and i am totally one of those ppl lol.

There are games for people like you, old EQ and FFXI. And honestly, I'm one of them too, really; I loved the hell out of FFXI and wish that there was a group of folks still there, because if I had a good, static group in FFXI, I would probably play again.

IIRC devmani still plays FFXI...

Reaper81 wrote:

So, let me get this straight? I can be a melee healer that wears leather, wields swords and such and uses energy as a resource?

Oh, and I get Diablo III for 'free?'

You sons of bitches.

SONS.

OF.

BITCHES.

EDIT:

Think about this another way:

You know how I whinge on about armor penetration? Imagine how I will feel about healer resource regen in a MELEE raid environment.

My thoughts exactly. I loved the way Warhammer Online made healing actually engaging through the Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine classes. Right now healing in WOW feels like a "whack-a-mole" minigame.

Reaper81 wrote:

So, let me get this straight? I can be a melee healer that wears leather, wields swords and such and uses energy as a resource?

Oh, and I get Diablo III for 'free?'

You sons of bitches.

SONS.

OF.

BITCHES.

*sigh*

See you guys online.

New talent trees. Lots to chew on.

Just looking at those it's a little weird now. It's not so much 10 classes with specialisations where you had to take talents in your spec's tree, or could mix and match. The move to one common talent tree (well, it's not a tree any more) feels more like class + sub class, and each tier on the talent tree seems like an option or different flavour of a type of improvement.

You'll have lots of flavours of a base class, all with some form of all abilities (they all have a stun, an escape ability, a way to get health, etc.), and the spec/sub class is a choice of exactly 3, no more than 3, no less than 3. It would seem to make balancing easier, but I can't help thinking there's less to explore.

Shaman stuff is incredibly underwhelming for Enhancement. I know it's under development and all, but looking at it, each spec will get use of a few talents from the entire tree, and some tiers aren't useful for certain playstyles at all.

I know that they're comitted to talents, and that they want choices to be meaningful, but I can't help but feel that every iteration of the talent system they get further from that.

I know it's fun to rail on WoW, but I can't help feeling that by giving themselves the freedom to almost completely reform the classes every major patch/expansion (v2.0 v3.0 etc) has really been a mixed bag. Even thinking of coming back to WoW after 9 months I would dread relearning all 7 classes I have, let alone after a major patch. Maybe it's more apathy and seeing a big learning cliff ahead of me and in the way of actually playing the game.

There's something about the major changes that says they're not confident in what they're doing, to settle on something that's only 'pretty good', or unable to get it 'right' (and it's almost impossible to do that).

Of course you really need to mention the upsides, the willingness to change what's broken, and that it does keep people interested in the game, as a new version of the class might as well be considered new free content to explore, which has probably helped it's longevity compared to if they settled on one scheme and limited themselves to tweaks.

You can't have it both ways though, and they chose their path.

Scratched wrote:

You'll have lots of flavours of a base class, all with some form of all abilities (they all have a stun, an escape ability, a way to get health, etc.), and the spec/sub class is a choice of exactly 3, no more than 3, no less than 3. It would seem to make balancing easier, but I can't help thinking there's less to explore.

There's nothing to explore as it is when it comes to the talent trees. You're either using an optimal EJ-approved spec or you're a scrub.

I just miss my shadow mastery/ruin build.

Scratched wrote:

I know it's fun to rail on WoW, but I can't help feeling that by giving themselves the freedom to almost completely reform the classes every major patch/expansion (v2.0 v3.0 etc) has really been a mixed bag. Even thinking of coming back to WoW after 9 months I would dread relearning all 7 classes I have, let alone after a major patch. Maybe it's more apathy and seeing a big learning cliff ahead of me and in the way of actually playing the game.

There's something about the major changes that says they're not confident in what they're doing, to settle on something that's only 'pretty good', or unable to get it 'right' (and it's almost impossible to do that).

Of course you really need to mention the upsides, the willingness to change what's broken, and that it does keep people interested in the game, as a new version of the class might as well be considered new free content to explore, which has probably helped it's longevity compared to if they settled on one scheme and limited themselves to tweaks.

You can't have it both ways though, and they chose their path.

I do think it's good to be willing to change things that are broken, but were talents going into Cata really that broken? I honestly don't think they were, so while I think the current trees are fine, I genuinely liked the massiveness of the old trees; there was more actual choice there. Yes, when you really start looking at most players, or listening to forumtards there's no choice, because there's one obviously best spec and if you're running anything else you're not competitive and should go kill yourself and delete your account etc.

All in all, I do think that having meaningful choice is good. I think that it shouldn't be easy and obvious as to how you spec each class out for the roles they have available. But I can't for the life of me see how this is making that happen.

AnimeJ wrote:

All in all, I do think that having meaningful choice is good. I think that it shouldn't be easy and obvious as to how you spec each class out for the roles they have available. But I can't for the life of me see how this is making that happen.

I think you have to look more closely at the details of what's being offered.

Take the lvl 15 of the paladin tree. My options as a ret paladin are:

(a) A massive speed boost for 6 seconds that also heals allies
(b) A 2-sec speed boost every time I Judge something
(c) A 10 percent speed boost for every charge of holy power I have.

(b) is great for PvP -- it's that closing moves ret paladins QQ'd for years to get. But it's key in a lot of raid encounters when I have to run away from a target and then come right back to it.

(a) is pretty good, too -- it's faster than (b), and it heals. Good for PvP - and PvE, too.

(c) is sustained speed. Granted, I'd rather use a full HP bar to smack the crap out of something than to use it to get a step on something. But it could be a nice middle ground between (a) and (b).

So right there you have three talents, all of which could be useful in PvP or PvE situations. So which one do you take?

You can do the same thing with pretty much every tier. I like the options so far.

The paladin's lvl 87 talent? Meh.

That's Paladin's though, and in a way demonstrates the hit/miss nature of what they're doing. Go look at Shaman talents and see if you find it the same. Currently the trees really only offer skills and passive boost, but rolling that into the specs and offering up gimmicky changes to existing talents that I don't use doesn't enamor me of them much. To contrast that though, I will say that I think they've done reasonably well with the Death Knight trees for tanking; there's a lot to be desired for Frost or Unholy DPS trees.

There is a pretty big disparity between the classes for the revamped trees. The rogue tree is pretty awful. It honestly looks like they spent 5 minutes on it and said, "okay how can we make this the easiest to implement."

I'm not sure how it is a choice to have 2 pvp talents and 1 pve talent on the same tier (or vice versa).

We pretty much only have 1 tier where there is even some thought for pve purposes.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Most folks (me included) view the changes from the prism of their class. The new talent trees are great/terrible for my class, so the expansion will rock/blow.

I'm on the "it rocks" bandwagon for the moment. That might change once I see SW overrun with pandas.

One thing I can't get out of my head for any bit of news on WoW, from tech to class design, is that they're using it as a test bed for Titan.

I'm not expecting Titan to be particularly risky and new, so it just seems like they'' slack off on major changes to WoW and finally put it in maintenance mode, and the foundations of their character building system will be derived from what they've learned from WoW up to that point, but with a new coat of paint.

(Kind of sounds like "no sh*t sherlock" when I write it down)

Slack off? They're introducing a new class, a new race and a bunch of new zones, instances and raids.

Which is what Blizzard did in BC, Wrath and Cata.

WoW is what it is. Why would you expect a dramatic overhaul of a 7-yr-old game?

But I think you're right that Blizzard will take lessons learned from WoW and apply to Titan. What lessons they'll use, well ... who the heck knows?

Enix wrote:

But I think you're right that Blizzard will take lessons learned from WoW and apply to Titan. What lessons they'll use, well ... who the heck knows?

That Pandas and pokemon battle system rip offs are the bees knees?

I just want Ogres. Is that too much to ask!? Maybe Pandas are particularly hairy Ogres...

I think what Blizzard did is roll most of the core talents into the base choice of each class.. and shifted talent trees away from simply being the default selections for each class to making each spec have some interesting choices that offer different abilities but nothing that would be considered core.

Makes sense in a way since as pointed out the talent trees were largely useless as everyone essentially picked the exact same build as per EJ

New druid ability.. (glad I'm leveling one up right now).

"Creates a symbiotic link which grants the Druid one ability belonging to the target's class, varying by the Druid's specialization."

That is pretty cool, I'm sure it will be nerfed at some point to be meaningless, but cool nonetheless.

Meanwhile the rogue design team (do they even have one for rogues?) has come up with a back stab ability (Dispatch) that doesn't require you to be behind a target... Great job guys...

Talliarthe wrote:

Meanwhile the rogue design team (do they even have one for rogues?) has come up with a back stab ability (Dispatch) that doesn't require you to be behind a target... Great job guys...

So they're stealing from TF2? (someone was going to say it)