WoW 5.0 - Mists of Pandaria

robkid wrote:

As far as leveling a monk, once you get to a certain level (30? 40? Can't recall offhand) you get the ability to teleport to a monk training center on Pandaria where there's a daily you can do that bumps all XP by 10% for an hour. It's available all the way to 90. If you combine that with rest and heirlooms, it can go pretty fast. Through most of it I was just queuing up for dungeons as a tank and I would often gain a level or two per dungeon, playing for about and hour or two each time. I was barely in BC long enough to get frustrated with it, though I didn't even start until 61 I think (I had shifted to questing for a bit as I hate dealing with the weirdness of LFG for the late vanilla dungeons and how they're "split").

Yep when i leveled mine i think i was there for a total of 4 hours if that when you take the monk xp and the guild xp bonuses into account.

edit: oh and the heirloom gear.

Bear wrote:

2. The Timeless Isle is an epic pinata. In one hour last night I added FIVE epics to my inventory and sent three others to my alts. I guess the heroic gear grind is over?

Oh, before I forget. I'd love to level up a Monk but the thought of grinding through the Burning Crusade content makes me want to hurt myself.

On the gear grind: Kinda sorta but not really. LFR has for all intents and purposes replaced heroics. The Timeless Isle gear you get is 496, which will just get you into SoO (and easily into everything before it). If you want to seriously raid, 496 gear is pretty gimpy. If you're just looking to reach a minimally acceptable level, it's fine. It's essentially the 463 gear of a few months ago.

BC content isn't bad at all. Leveling has been buffed (that is, the XP required has been nerfed), guild membership in most cases will give you an XP bonus and there are all sorts of ways to get BOA gear (Darkmoon Faire, JPs or VPs, guild rep) that all come with XP bonuses. Dailies to boost fishing and cooking, pet battles and professions (mining, herbing, arch) all give XP, too.

I think the last time I took a toon through BC I did maybe a hub or two worth of quests in Hellfire, Zangar, Nagrand and one other before I hit 68 and got to Northrend (which also zooms by quickly).

TheGameguru wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

So I completely ignored Mists of Pandaria when it came out, but some of the new Siege of Ogrimmar stuff looks interesting. And I also didn't realize that you can play a "drunken" monk, which has me more interested in the class. Can anyone tell me if monks are a decent class for a returning player, and whether or not they're in demand? I tried coming back with a Death Knight a couple years back and since everyone and their mother played one I really struggled finding groups.

More so than ever Blizzard has squeezed the min/max flavor of the month out of this game.. sure you'll find the top end hardcore raiding guilds (the few that are still left) favoring certain classes and builds over another..but for the LFR and the more casual raiders class and spec take a back seat to pretty much everything else including showing up for a raid and not standing in sh*t.

As a monk you can be all 3 roles which means if you queue for LFR as a tank or healer you have like a 2 min wait time lol.

What GG said. Blizzard's mantra these days is "bring the player, not the class." Play what you want to and don't worry about role.

As for monks, I saw a bunch of monk tanks (Brewmasters) early on in the expansion, partly because they were new, partly because they were extremely OP and partly because you could insta-queue. I don't see as many now, or I don't notice them as much.

The numbers show that folks are leveling their monks to 90 (like they do with other hybrid classes such as paladin and druid), but monks are among the least popular class in the game, mostly because they've only one x-pack old.

I have one rolled but haven't decided what to do with him yet. It'll probably be WW-BM (dps/tank) because they essentially can share gear as I go (and leveling a healer isn't my idea of fun).

It seems to me that WoW has made the game a lot more welcoming to the casual player but holy crap have they dumbed this game down. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it makes me reflect on what we used to have to do in "vanilla" WOW.

By dumb do you mean speed up and streamlined? Since compared to Vanilla WoW the actual mechanics of the classes as well as the fights are more complex. What Blizzard did was remove the grind to get to the raiding part as well as open up raiding to essentially everyone (with LFR). If you look at the differences with a clear reality (not rose colored glasses) you see that its WAY harder to do comparable top end DPS than it was in Vanilla.. literally for some classes they went from a 1 button DPS rotation to a fairly complex set of decisions that need both timing as well as awareness of the boss fight to maximize your DPS output. (to be fair this started back in WoTLK..not recently)

There has never been a greater distinction between gear and skill in WoW than exists today.. you can take the the same geared toon and put them in the hands of a mediocre player and a well skilled player that not only understands the mechanics of his/her class but also the entire fight (including when healing and tanking will be stressed) and you will see a huge DPS spread.

I remember in MC and BWL when DPS for most classes was a 1 button push with the occasional refresh of dots.. some fights ranged dps would never move...ever. The Talent trees in the end were not about dumbing down since most classes had exactly ONE talent build to maximize their role.

Oh, before I forget. I'd love to level up a Monk but the thought of grinding through the Burning Crusade content makes me want to hurt myself.

It's not so bad if you max out the heirlooms.. you will get a 45% bonus to EXP which I believe stacks with the 10% hourly daily... its still deadly dull though.

TheGameguru wrote:
It seems to me that WoW has made the game a lot more welcoming to the casual player but holy crap have they dumbed this game down. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it makes me reflect on what we used to have to do in "vanilla" WOW.

By dumb do you mean speed up and streamlined? ...

I'd echo that and say Blizzard got rid of a lot of the needlessly time-consuming stuff. No more cross-continent quests. No more weeks-long attunements. No more pleading in /2 for a group (or a 70) to run you through any number of dungeons in Azeroth.

There are still a few grinds. Ever try to level a crafting profession from scratch? It's ugly if you don't have someone to farm up some mats.

The flip side is that a lot of the more compelling quest lines got ditched (Duskwood isn't the same, for instance). You're also very likely to level out of an old zone well before you finish the story. And classes are very, very unbalanced during the leveling process. My BOA-loaded blood DK, for instance, almost always topped the meters through the Cata dungeons.

Ever try to level a crafting profession from scratch? It's ugly if you don't have someone to farm up some mats.

Very true.. just finished up Jewelcrafting..now doing Enchanting.. ughh.. it's strange that Blizzard did a very awesome catch up mechanism for Blacksmithing and Cooking.. but someone decided the other professions did not warrant similar treatment.

TheGameguru wrote:
Ever try to level a crafting profession from scratch? It's ugly if you don't have someone to farm up some mats.

Very true.. just finished up Jewelcrafting..now doing Enchanting.. ughh.. it's strange that Blizzard did a very awesome catch up mechanism for Blacksmithing and Cooking.. but someone decided the other professions did not warrant similar treatment.

When I said dumbed down I meant the grind, the approach to questing, gathering and leveling in general. It used to be a lot more work, it's just far more fluid now. That's definitely not a bad thing.

If they want to implement a pay to level approach I'd gladly hand over $20 to skip leveling new professions.

I've only done a few Catacylsm dungeons and leveled from 80 to 87, but my experience has largely jived with what Gameguru is saying, esp. regarding the damage rotation. Maintaining an effective damage rotation is much more involved now (at least as a Destruction Warlock) than it was in Vanilla, which helps keep things interesting, even against trash where I experiment with different orders.

What I will say, though, is that the LFR dungeons I've played in Cataclysm have been a lot more forgiving than i remember them being in Vanilla. Gone are the days of planning every pull, setting mez's, etc - the groups i've been in have been more than happy to aoe every group and let the tanks and healers go to town. i imagine that the actual heroic dungeons and raids are less forgiving and require more planning (haven't had the chance to do any), but from what i can tell so far the encounters are more tactically demanding on an individual level (to maintain damage output, etc), but seem to be less demanding from a strategic perspective (planning & execution prior to each pull/encounter).

Would that be accurate?

we dont need no stinkin' CC!

Heroic dungeons are very forgiving now that folks are overgeared and have run them multiple times. If you're low on iLevel and running something for the first time, you're bound to mess up. Every instance seems to have some little quirk that will bite you in the butt if you're new. But if the rest of the group is uber, they might carry you through just fine.

LFR is less forgiving. If a few key folks don't know a fight, it's a wipefest. But the mechanics for the most part are fairly straightforward and not that hard to figure out after a time or two through.

If you want a challenge, try running heroic scenarios with three DPSers. I ran Dark Heart of Pandaria the other day with a DK and a hunter (I was ret paladin). On the last boss, I died once (got feared into the purple), then got battle rezzed. The healing debuff means I couldn't keep the rest of the group alive. The DK went down, then I went down. The boss went down on the hunter's literal last shot. That was a blast, actually.

We did a heroic tonight with two dps and one healer. Two dropped out after the first boss and we just kept going. It wasn't easy but we made it.

I remember when an UBRS run would take an hour or more and Not using cc was unthinkable. I don't think I've seen anything cc'd in MoP.

The rotations might be more complex but the runs sure are a lot less perilous. Can't say I miss grinding trash.

Bear wrote:

We did a heroic tonight with two dps and one healer. Two dropped out after the first boss and we just kept going. It wasn't easy but we made it.

I remember when an UBRS run would take an hour or more and Not using cc was unthinkable. I don't think I've seen anything cc'd in MoP.

The rotations might be more complex but the runs sure are a lot less perilous. Can't say I miss grinding trash.

Almost every class now does AoE damage. Makes the use of CC tricky and rare.

Bear wrote:

We did a heroic tonight with two dps and one healer. Two dropped out after the first boss and we just kept going. It wasn't easy but we made it.

I remember when an UBRS run would take an hour or more and Not using cc was unthinkable. I don't think I've seen anything cc'd in MoP.

The rotations might be more complex but the runs sure are a lot less perilous. Can't say I miss grinding trash.

Almost every class now does AoE damage. Makes the use of CC tricky and rare.

ranalin wrote:
Bear wrote:

We did a heroic tonight with two dps and one healer. Two dropped out after the first boss and we just kept going. It wasn't easy but we made it.

I remember when an UBRS run would take an hour or more and Not using cc was unthinkable. I don't think I've seen anything cc'd in MoP.

The rotations might be more complex but the runs sure are a lot less perilous. Can't say I miss grinding trash.

Almost every class now does AoE damage. Makes the use of CC tricky and rare.

I try to cc on my characters, but yeah, tanks just pull everything and aoe. Frankly, it's kind of annoying. I know generally speaking it's not NECESSARY.... but dammit, I LIKE bonking things on the head!

dhelor wrote:

I try to cc on my characters, but yeah, tanks just pull everything and aoe. Frankly, it's kind of annoying. I know generally speaking it's not NECESSARY.... but dammit, I LIKE bonking things on the head!

I did a couple of runs tonight with my lock. sh*t was dying so fast I could barely get the dots up! Loving the new shard mechanics!

I know that'll change at the higher levels but damn, people are just steamrolling stuff.

Yeah, lock dots seem like a waste of time as you level. That's mainly why I went from aff to destructo. That chaos bolt is sloooooow, though. Sometimes I think it'd be faster just to walk over and slap the mob.

Enix wrote:

Yeah, lock dots seem like a waste of time as you level. That's mainly why I went from aff to destructo. That chaos bolt is sloooooow, though. Sometimes I think it'd be faster just to walk over and slap the mob.

Unless it changed again Destruction was slightly higher on the dps scale against Affliction, but lost against it if you had a lot of movement to do. Demonology though had taken over as the top build due to the new mechanics with the transformation ability and aoe.

Yay, lock discussion! I started off as a lock, then shelved it to reroll a rogue on a new server, and now years later I'm back to my 'lock and loving it.

I have a built-in bias against affliction since in my Vanilla raiding days, there was a debuff limit on bosses (don't know if this is still the case) and in a 40 man raid, Warlock DOTS were not the most effective thing to keep up there, so we were all mostly destruction heavy. Right now my trees are Destruction/Demonology. I've played around with both and like Destruction more - the whole Demonic Fury mechanic just doesn't sit right for me, though I really really miss Hellfire and wish Destruction had more AOE capability.

As for Chaos Bolt, it helps a lot to do it after a conflagrate where the cast time goes down to 2 seconds. I've found that against regular leveling mobs, Immolate/Conflagrate/Chaos Bolt/Shadowburn has been the fastest rotation to kill anything, so long as I have the burning embers to conflagrate (The shadowburn tends to keep them up). I find it faster than using Incinerate, anyways.

I've not played mine in awhile but it was my understanding to not use any of the bolts unless they proc for the reduced or free cast.

Oh and i still prefer Affliction for PvP.

With debuffs on bosses, there's still a limit, but in practice, it doesn't really matter.

On Warlocks, if you're still leveling, do yourself a favor: Spec Demonology and pick up a Glyph of Demon Hunting. Then run around in the form it gives you, and love your leveling process. I had the best time on earth leveling my warlock like that.

AnimeJ wrote:

With debuffs on bosses, there's still a limit, but in practice, it doesn't really matter.

On Warlocks, if you're still leveling, do yourself a favor: Spec Demonology and pick up a Glyph of Demon Hunting. Then run around in the form it gives you, and love your leveling process. I had the best time on earth leveling my warlock like that.

Just don't do this in dungeons. Your tank will hate you.

dhelor wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

With debuffs on bosses, there's still a limit, but in practice, it doesn't really matter.

On Warlocks, if you're still leveling, do yourself a favor: Spec Demonology and pick up a Glyph of Demon Hunting. Then run around in the form it gives you, and love your leveling process. I had the best time on earth leveling my warlock like that.

Just don't do this in dungeons. Your tank will hate you.

hehe tank? try whole party. The aoe you do in that form is purple and has people freaking out all the time.

ranalin wrote:
dhelor wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

With debuffs on bosses, there's still a limit, but in practice, it doesn't really matter.

On Warlocks, if you're still leveling, do yourself a favor: Spec Demonology and pick up a Glyph of Demon Hunting. Then run around in the form it gives you, and love your leveling process. I had the best time on earth leveling my warlock like that.

Just don't do this in dungeons. Your tank will hate you.

hehe tank? try whole party. The aoe you do in that form is purple and has people freaking out all the time.

I've actually run through dungeons when the tank was garbage. Just told the healer "Hang on man, keep me up and we'll rock this out". I ran Destro otherwise.

AnimeJ wrote:
ranalin wrote:
dhelor wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

With debuffs on bosses, there's still a limit, but in practice, it doesn't really matter.

On Warlocks, if you're still leveling, do yourself a favor: Spec Demonology and pick up a Glyph of Demon Hunting. Then run around in the form it gives you, and love your leveling process. I had the best time on earth leveling my warlock like that.

Just don't do this in dungeons. Your tank will hate you.

hehe tank? try whole party. The aoe you do in that form is purple and has people freaking out all the time.

I've actually run through dungeons when the tank was garbage. Just told the healer "Hang on man, keep me up and we'll rock this out". I ran Destro otherwise. :)

I have been known to do with with my voidwalker as well, while leveling anyway. I also tanked a boss in BRD on my priest as disc. Practically soloed it in fact, only a shaman with me at the time if I recall.

Enix wrote:

Yeah, lock dots seem like a waste of time as you level. That's mainly why I went from aff to destructo. That chaos bolt is sloooooow, though. Sometimes I think it'd be faster just to walk over and slap the mob.

I liked the Affliction spec because it used to give you solid dps, good mobility and incredible survivability. Now the spec is much more focused on channeled spells.

With the drop off in cc and the AoE trash mob pulls there no viable way to dps trash. I'll try the other specs and see if I like them any better. If not it's back to my Shaman and the Chain Lightning fiesta!

One thing I have noticed on the journey to 90, my Lock is a wrecking machine compared to my shaman. I can do things with the Lock I'd never ever survive as a Shaman.

Lots of AOE in the 25 man raids...sometimes I feel like that is all there is

Bear wrote:

With the drop off in cc and the AoE trash mob pulls there no viable way to dps trash. ...

One thing I have noticed on the journey to 90, my Lock is a wrecking machine compared to my shaman. I can do things with the Lock I'd never ever survive as a Shaman.

The voidwalker is a little squishier than I'd like, but I'll have him chain attack, heal him up and burn down the rest of the mobs. It's not really all that efficient, but it works OK.

But, yes, the demo lock is indeed a wrecking machine, thanks mainly to double chaos bolt crits. He seems much more dps-y than my shaman, who is way too fragile for my liking. I might not be playing him right, but enhance isn't doing it for me.

If you're running elemental and feel squishy, use sword/board and grab the damage>healing conversion talent if you don't already. If you're enhancement, well, there's really no way around that. It's why I switched to elemental this expansion.

TheGameguru wrote:

Lots of AOE in the 25 man raids...sometimes I feel like that is all there is

No tanking, no winning. Someone needs to hod the boss in place so the AOErs can burn the adds.

mateo wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Lots of AOE in the 25 man raids...sometimes I feel like that is all there is

No tanking, no winning. Someone needs to hod the boss in place so the AOErs can burn the adds.

Lol no doubt....also love that most builds now have reasonable AOE..granted some are just stronger than others but the fact Enhance Shammies can AOE moving packs of mobs makes me happy pants...especially during Dark Shaman.