Bishop indicted for failing to report child porn on priest's computer

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KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Kansas City’s Catholic bishop was charged Friday with not telling police about child pornography found on a priest’s computer, making him the highest-ranking U.S. Catholic official indicted on a charge of failing to protect children.

Kansas City-St. Joseph Catholic Diocese Bishop Robert Finn, the first U.S. bishop criminally charged with sheltering an abusive clergyman, pleaded not guilty to one misdemeanor count of failing to report suspected child abuse.

Jeez.

I don't think there's even any discussion to be had here, surely everyone will agree that that's despicable. I suppose that they were trying to prevent a resurgence of paedophilia-driven anti-Church sentiment, but I thought morality came before reputation amongst the clergy.

Paleocon wrote:

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KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Kansas City’s Catholic bishop was charged Friday with not telling police about child pornography found on a priest’s computer, making him the highest-ranking U.S. Catholic official indicted on a charge of failing to protect children.

Kansas City-St. Joseph Catholic Diocese Bishop Robert Finn, the first U.S. bishop criminally charged with sheltering an abusive clergyman, pleaded not guilty to one misdemeanor count of failing to report suspected child abuse.

Jeez.

Wow, I will be following this one closely.

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

I don't think there's even any discussion to be had here, surely everyone will agree that that's despicable. I suppose that they were trying to prevent a resurgence of paedophilia-driven anti-Church sentiment, but I thought morality came before reputation amongst the clergy.

I think the controversy will come when folks like me start with the prescriptions for remedial action. My own recommendation is that religious organizations should, at the very least, subject themselves to the full force of the rule of secular law. The idea that the Catholic Church in particular, but religious organizations in general, is somehow exempt from criminal prosecution by virtue of being religious is deeply offensive to any civilized society.

I can see two people who should be going to prison.

Paleocon wrote:
El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

I don't think there's even any discussion to be had here, surely everyone will agree that that's despicable. I suppose that they were trying to prevent a resurgence of paedophilia-driven anti-Church sentiment, but I thought morality came before reputation amongst the clergy.

I think the controversy will come when folks like me start with the prescriptions for remedial action. My own recommendation is that religious organizations should, at the very least, subject themselves to the full force of the rule of secular law. The idea that the Catholic Church in particular, but religious organizations in general, is somehow exempt from criminal prosecution by virtue of being religious is deeply offensive to any civilized society.

I agree.

I don't think anyone is going to disagree that Holy Mother Church needs to be brought to answer for the things that have happened. There's just an invisible social shield around the senior members of the church that causes people to hesitate when actually arresting or indicting them. Personally, I've said for several years that when you stop calling someone "Revered Smith" and start calling them "Mr. Smith", suddenly it becomes a lot easier to manage.

Also, given the Boston-like levels of Irish cops in KC and the rage back home about the report, it was really only a matter of time before a place like KC, Chicago, or Boston became the first staging point for secular law to start kicking down the Church's door.

What I find most frustrating is the knee jerk "why so much hate on the Catholic Church?" reactions I get from even otherwise reasonable Catholics I know whenever I bring up a story like this. Moreover, I have been told more than a few times that it is somehow anti-Catholic to mention the sex abuse cases because it somehow singles the church out.

Paleocon wrote:

What I find most frustrating is the knee jerk "why so much hate on the Catholic Church?" reactions I get from even otherwise reasonable Catholics I know whenever I bring up a story like this. Moreover, I have been told more than a few times that it is somehow anti-Catholic to mention the sex abuse cases because it somehow singles the church out.

Remember this with the BP oil spill in the gulf? Even reasonable people can freak out when something they are a part of is attacked, no matter how justified and proportional that attack is given the nature of the evil.

Paleocon wrote:
El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

I don't think there's even any discussion to be had here, surely everyone will agree that that's despicable. I suppose that they were trying to prevent a resurgence of paedophilia-driven anti-Church sentiment, but I thought morality came before reputation amongst the clergy.

I think the controversy will come when folks like me start with the prescriptions for remedial action. My own recommendation is that religious organizations should, at the very least, subject themselves to the full force of the rule of secular law. The idea that the Catholic Church in particular, but religious organizations in general, is somehow exempt from criminal prosecution by virtue of being religious is deeply offensive to any civilized society.

Fair enough, I totally agree.

Paleocon wrote:

What I find most frustrating is the knee jerk "why so much hate on the Catholic Church?" reactions I get from even otherwise reasonable Catholics I know whenever I bring up a story like this. Moreover, I have been told more than a few times that it is somehow anti-Catholic to mention the sex abuse cases because it somehow singles the church out.

I believe it's anti-Catholic to not be so outraged at the Church for allowing these crimes to continue unpunished for decades. Catholics should be the most angry and want justice second to the actual victims. I want mass arrests and trials for the criminals that allowed and did these evil crimes. Anyone who knew about abuse, hid abuse or allowed abuse should be in prision.

What I find most frustrating is the knee jerk "why so much hate on the Catholic Church?" reactions I get from even otherwise reasonable Catholics I know whenever I bring up a story like this.

I believe they think the Church is just like every other organization, that all youth-oriented programs struggle with pedophiles. In actuality, of course, it's not seen much in other organizations. But when you start from the given that the Catholic Church is where God lives, then anything amiss with it must either be a tiny aberration, or a plot by satanists to discredit the Word. Paying attention to these supposed crimes weakens the Church.

If you encounter this again, one possible angle to point out that is you're not hating on Protestants or Evangelicals, even though the evangelicals in particular can be annoying and intrusive. It's not pointed at the Catholic Church because it's the Catholic Church, but rather because their organization has traditionally dealt with sex abuse in very dysfunctional ways, often keeping pedophiles in contact with children, but in a new parish where nobody knows that Father Tim has a lech for little girls.

Ulairi wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

What I find most frustrating is the knee jerk "why so much hate on the Catholic Church?" reactions I get from even otherwise reasonable Catholics I know whenever I bring up a story like this. Moreover, I have been told more than a few times that it is somehow anti-Catholic to mention the sex abuse cases because it somehow singles the church out.

I believe it's anti-Catholic to not be so outraged at the Church for allowing these crimes to continue unpunished for decades. Catholics should be the most angry and want justice second to the actual victims. I want mass arrests and trials for the criminals that allowed and did these evil crimes. Anyone who knew about abuse, hid abuse or allowed abuse should be in prision.

Thank you for saying that, and I agree! This controversy and the Church's response to it was the first step to my losing faith.

This is all pretty refreshing to hear. I have good friends of mine I've grown up with (grew up Catholic) that get red-faced, homicidally angry when I mention these sorts of stories.

The usual course goes something like this:

1) This is all blown out of proportion.
2) The Church is its own authority.
3) This is just all an anticatholic conspiracy.
4) Look at all the good things the Church does for people.
5) This will bring down the Church if you're not careful. Is that what you really want?

It's well and truly maddening.

My reaction-Misdemeanor? Not a class C felony 1-5 years

Paleocon wrote:

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Quote:

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Kansas City’s Catholic bishop was charged Friday with not telling police about child pornography found on a priest’s computer, making him the highest-ranking U.S. Catholic official indicted on a charge of failing to protect children.

Kansas City-St. Joseph Catholic Diocese Bishop Robert Finn, the first U.S. bishop criminally charged with sheltering an abusive clergyman, pleaded not guilty to one misdemeanor count of failing to report suspected child abuse.

Good.

Your "stages" there have me thinking: maybe it's a matter of understanding what the Catholic Church is to people who are different from you. It's not some soulless organization to them--it's almost like a family member. If someone's close relative turned out to be a sex criminal, I could see them deflecting in the same way.

I don't know--I wouldn't bring up Rodney King around friends who are police, or Abu Ghraib around friends who are soldiers. Why mention these sorts of stories around Catholics?

CheezePavilion wrote:

Your "stages" there have me thinking: maybe it's a matter of understanding what the Catholic Church is to people who are different from you. It's not some soulless organization to them--it's almost like a family member. If someone's close relative turned out to be a sex criminal, I could see them deflecting in the same way.

I don't know--I wouldn't bring up Rodney King around friends who are police, or Abu Ghraib around friends who are soldiers. Why mention these sorts of stories around Catholics?

...because it's fun to watch the Catholics squirm, that's why. If child abuse and getting justice was the real issue, this story would have also made it on the P&C boards:

http://timestranscript.canadaeast.co...

and this one (10,000 KIDS AFFECTED HERE!!!!):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...

and this one:

http://www2.wnct.com/news/2011/oct/1...

...and this one:

http://irmo.patch.com/articles/two-a...

..and on and on and on...

We'd discuss those if they were brought up, Darren. Nobody's saying those aren't horrific situations, but if the Catholic Church wants us to stop focusing on what's going on within their realm and focus more on where it's happening elsewhere in the world, they should seriously, seriously remove the plank from their eye before pointing out the speck in other's eyes.

Rubb Ed wrote:

We'd discuss those if they were brought up, Darren.

..that's my point. They never are brought up in this community of gamers who are concerned about child abuse. Ever. Only the one's involving the Catholic Church are...and I'm wondering out loud of why that is.

Like come on...10000 kids have been effected in that one story alone!!!! What is wrong with you people!! Wake up:

The Child Sexual Exploitation - Gangs and Groups Inquiry (CSEGG) - which will focus on the links with gangs and groups, is being led by Deputy Children's Commissioner Sue Berelowitz.
It is thoughts that up to 10,000 children are affected by gang-related sexual exploitation but initial research carried out for the Office of the Children's Commissioner has suggested that this figure could be much higher.
Ms Berelowitz has already said that existing data is inadequate and the full extent of this type of abuse is unknown.
Speaking ahead of its launch on Friday Dr Maggie Atkinson, the Children's Commissioner for England, said the inquiry would be "a wake-up call for us all".

Well, since that isn't a case where a large, respected organization within the community has been allowing such things to happen under its aegis, I'm not sure if I see them as equivalent. I'm also not sure it helps your case much when you equate the Church with street gangs. People are outraged specifically in these cases, because the Church is supposed to be, well, better than street gangs.

-Largely tanhausered by SpacePPoliceman but alas -

When members of the church are involved there's that exploitation of their position, for many people there's a great sense of breach of trust.

Most people are not knowingly leaving their children in the care of gangs so whilst still truly terrible it doesn't have quite the same psychological punch as a priest or teacher engaging in such things.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'm also not sure it helps your case much when you equate the Church with street gangs. People are outraged specifically in these cases, because the Church is supposed to be, well, better than street gangs.

This.

For me, the issue is less that I think that Catholics are more likely to perpetrate these kind of acts - they are clearly not. This is a sickness that is not limited to faith/creed/country. What the issue is is that the Church covers it up so that it doesn't tarnish the reputation of Mother Church, putting the Church above children and preventing criminals from facing justice.

So, Darren, perhaps it is not us who needs a cup of coffee to be able to see things clearly.

SallyNasty wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'm also not sure it helps your case much when you equate the Church with street gangs. People are outraged specifically in these cases, because the Church is supposed to be, well, better than street gangs.

This.

Only now do I get the double meaning of the name "Tunnel Snakes" from Fallout 3.

CheezePavilion wrote:

Your "stages" there have me thinking: maybe it's a matter of understanding what the Catholic Church is to people who are different from you. It's not some soulless organization to them--it's almost like a family member. If someone's close relative turned out to be a sex criminal, I could see them deflecting in the same way.

I don't know--I wouldn't bring up Rodney King around friends who are police, or Abu Ghraib around friends who are soldiers. Why mention these sorts of stories around Catholics?

The Church is supposed to be a post to offer support, guidance and inspiration. It is not supposed to be a criminal origination that took the innocence away from thousand of children. It is not supposed to be run by evil men who vilify the very victims they are responsible for hurting. It is not supposed to be an organization run by hateful men that directly contributed to the evilness and the taking away of innocence from its most precious followers. Any one who tries to defend this is not doing themselves or the Catholic church any good. If someone truly loves the Church and God they should be the most angry. Catholics should be calling for heads on pikes or the modern equivalent. We need these evil men put behind bars. We need to open up the curtains to the shadowy basement of the Church and let the light of justice clean the Church because the Church is unable and unwilling to correct itself. Only after years of brave people coming forward to let people know how they are taken advantage of and hurt by this evil organization is the Church willing to do a thing and even now it is unwilling to admit the basic problem. The Church should be taking the most active position in getting these evil men prosecuted for their crimes.

If a family member of mine was arrested for taking the innocence way from a child, I would want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and I would personally want nothing to do with said family member.

Ulairi wrote:

I believe it's anti-Catholic to not be so outraged at the Church for allowing these crimes to continue unpunished for decades. Catholics should be the most angry and want justice second to the actual victims. I want mass arrests and trials for the criminals that allowed and did these evil crimes. Anyone who knew about abuse, hid abuse or allowed abuse should be in prision.

I absolutely agree with this. The Church isn't its hierarchy, and if its officials are criminals they need to be brought to justice so they don't bring the whole organization down with them.

This stuff makes me so angry, both the obscene crimes and the hand-wringing and excuse-making that follow. The cockroaches that are responsible for allowing these abuses need to be dragged out into the light were they can be smashed.

CheezePavilion wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'm also not sure it helps your case much when you equate the Church with street gangs. People are outraged specifically in these cases, because the Church is supposed to be, well, better than street gangs.

This.

Only now do I get the double meaning of the name "Tunnel Snakes" from Fallout 3.

Bravo. Thank you for giving me a chuckle. I can consider this horrible topic finished.

KingGorilla wrote:

My reaction-Misdemeanor? Not a class C felony 1-5 years

Failure to report is a misdemeanor, but it can still net a year in jail and the prosecution wants to take it there, apparently. I heard an interview with the... DA? City attorney? and they want to make something of an example about it, saying that no one on the church side of these cases has spent a day in jail over it.

darrenl wrote:
Rubb Ed wrote:

We'd discuss those if they were brought up, Darren.

..that's my point. They never are brought up in this community of gamers who are concerned about child abuse. Ever. Only the one's involving the Catholic Church are...and I'm wondering out loud of why that is.

Like come on...10000 kids have been effected in that one story alone!!!! What is wrong with you people!! Wake up:

The Child Sexual Exploitation - Gangs and Groups Inquiry (CSEGG) - which will focus on the links with gangs and groups, is being led by Deputy Children's Commissioner Sue Berelowitz.
It is thoughts that up to 10,000 children are affected by gang-related sexual exploitation but initial research carried out for the Office of the Children's Commissioner has suggested that this figure could be much higher.
Ms Berelowitz has already said that existing data is inadequate and the full extent of this type of abuse is unknown.
Speaking ahead of its launch on Friday Dr Maggie Atkinson, the Children's Commissioner for England, said the inquiry would be "a wake-up call for us all".

So... start a new thread. What's stopping you? You don't have to just limit yourself to being Token Catholic Guy.

And there's nothing wrong with me, but thanks anyway.

Tannhausered to hell and back, but seriously, why do you think it helps your case to equate the Catholic Church to street gangs? If you're making the case that they are equivalent criminal conspiracies that evade justice by sheltering sexual predators, I am inclined to agree with you, but I hardly think that is the case you want to make.

Paleocon wrote:

Tannhausered to hell and back, but seriously, why do you think it helps your case to equate the Catholic Church to street gangs? If you're making the case that they are equivalent criminal conspiracies that evade justice by sheltering sexual predators, I am inclined to agree with you, but I hardly think that is the case you want to make.

I think it's a matter of people feeling that--rightly or wrongly--the only time anyone is really interested in child abuse is when the Catholic Church is doing it, and a lot of those people have an ax to grind with religion in the first place.

On the one hand, I sympathize with that sentiment. On the other hand, I remember we're talking a *global* conspiracy here--this isn't some local day care center gone wrong. This is one of the richest and most powerful multinational organizations in history engaged in a cover-up and we want to know how high it went and how widespread it was. It's like something out of a Dan Brown novel, only it's real and it's a lot more evil than anything he could come up with. At that point I realize it's actually *not* unfair to single out the Catholic Church.

Even if a lot of the people who do the singling out think I'm an idiot for my other beliefs about children's rights, or just get their jollies being bigots. All in all, it's a pretty miserable, alienating topic.

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