Illegal Immigrants eligible for scholarships and in-state tuition (CA)

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Brown signed it into law today, unbelievable.

So we have 9.1% unemployment, government is furloughing workers, slashing public school funding, etc. But we have $14.5 million to give to illegal immigrants to go to college. Bizarre country we live in.

Sorry, I can't get myself worked up over a plan that might actually turn those illegal immigrants into legal residents that will also pay taxes and have college degrees. Public schools are certainly suffering right now, but if there's one market that's flourishing and bringing in revenue, it's the college market.

On top of all that-- this is in California, not Ohio. that $14.5 million was more than likely never going to be used on the federal level anyway.

WipEout wrote:
Sorry, I can't get myself worked up over a plan that might actually turn those illegal immigrants into legal residents that will also pay taxes and have college degrees. Public schools are certainly suffering right now, but if there's one market that's flourishing and bringing in revenue, it's the college market.

California has some of the best colleges in the country. It doesn't bother you that a black citizen from Alabama would have to pay out of state tuition and couldn't get this scholarship money but an illegal immigrant could?

If the black student from Alabama doesn't bother trying to gain CA residence, then no-- it doesn't, really. But, as your article points out, the Dream Act "specifies that they only qualify for financial aid after all the other legal residents have applied."

WipEout wrote:
If the black student from Alabama doesn't bother trying to gain CA residence, then no-- it doesn't, really. But, as your article points out, the Dream Act "specifies that they only qualify for financial aid after all the other legal residents have applied."

The article also points out that they anticipate 2,500 illegals to receive that aid. I'd much rather the money be used for anyone else, out of state people even.

Seems to me that in-state students more likely to stick around and help out the Californian coffers than out of state or out of country students, so I'm fine with it.

And hey, I actually live in California too!

bandit0013 wrote:
WipEout wrote:
If the black student from Alabama doesn't bother trying to gain CA residence, then no-- it doesn't, really. But, as your article points out, the Dream Act "specifies that they only qualify for financial aid after all the other legal residents have applied."

The article also points out that they anticipate 2,500 illegals to receive that aid. I'd much rather the money be used for anyone else, out of state people even.

Sorry, that was never how CalGrants have worked. And last I heard, no one is stopping the out-of-state students from becoming resident students to take advantage of the discounted tuition.

Personally, I'm glad that California is doing something to quell illegal immigration in a peaceful and productive manner. These illegal-immigrant students didn't make the decision to cross the border by themselves-- they were kids dragged along by their parents. Aside from a certificate stating so, these kids are, for all other intents and purposes, American people. Other than that document stating their legal status, they are fully integrated and living as part of the local societies. I don't see a problem in aiding them on the path to legal citizenship if it means they are generally likely to be contributing members of society.

So these are kids, first off, who have been brought into the country by their parents, attended and graduated from California schools, gotten into college through competing and can prove they are in the process of legalizing their status. They can apply for financial aid only after all other students have done so. As many as 2500 students will compete for up to one percent of the available CalGrant funds. Most of them will become citizens, graduate, get decent jobs, pay taxes and benefit their community. One percent of available funds.

I guess we could boot them from college, ditch the investment in secondary schooling already made, and turn them into 2500 potential welfare cases with no health insurance. We can't deport them, they are qualified for citizenship. That's the ideologically pure solution, I guess, but it sure seems more costly than helping them with college like other citizens.

bandit0013 wrote:
WipEout wrote:
Sorry, I can't get myself worked up over a plan that might actually turn those illegal immigrants into legal residents that will also pay taxes and have college degrees. Public schools are certainly suffering right now, but if there's one market that's flourishing and bringing in revenue, it's the college market.

California has some of the best colleges in the country. It doesn't bother you that a black citizen from Alabama would have to pay out of state tuition and couldn't get this scholarship money but an illegal immigrant could?

Considering the "illegal" likely has been living in California for most of their lives along with the rest of their family, no, I don't have a problem with it.

This is just one of those things where someone from Midwest honestly doesn't have any idea of what it's like to live in a state where four in ten citizens are Hispanic. There isn't a clean legal/illegal break. It's just a big mess of families where some members are legal and some are not. Either way, they've all lived, worked, and paid taxes in California for years, if not decades.

Did California have a $14.5 million budget surplus?

LeapingGnome wrote:
Did California have a $14.5 million budget surplus?

Is that an honest question?

California's fiscal issues have nothing to do with the DREAM act or 14.5 million for kids to go to college. i'm always in favour of anything that helps kids go to school, even if they'll major in liberal arts. (that's for DS)

California's fiscal issues have nothing to do with the DREAM act or 14.5 million for kids to go to college. i'm always in favour of anything that helps kids go to school, even if they'll major in liberal arts. (that's for DS)

Ulairi wrote:
California's fiscal issues have nothing to do with the DREAM act or 14.5 million for kids to go to college. i'm always in favour of anything that helps kids go to school, even if they'll major in liberal arts. (that's for DS)

Anything to save our nation's children from the scourge of double-posting

Tanglebones wrote:
Ulairi wrote:
California's fiscal issues have nothing to do with the DREAM act or 14.5 million for kids to go to college. i'm always in favour of anything that helps kids go to school, even if they'll major in liberal arts. (that's for DS)

Anything to save our nation's children from the scourge of double-posting :)

I'd spend up to 15 million to avoid that!

WipEout wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Did California have a $14.5 million budget surplus?

Is that an honest question?

So more spending money they don't have. Got it.

Ulairi wrote:
California's fiscal issues have nothing to do with the DREAM act or 14.5 million for kids to go to college.

I would love to say my ability to pay for things has nothing to do with how much money I have. Sign me up!

I'm glad to see that the citizens of Ohio care so much about California's fiscal policies.

LeapingGnome wrote:
WipEout wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Did California have a $14.5 million budget surplus?

Is that an honest question?

So more spending money they don't have. Got it.

Ulairi wrote:
California's fiscal issues have nothing to do with the DREAM act or 14.5 million for kids to go to college.

I would love to say my ability to pay for things has nothing to do with how much money I have. Sign me up!

If you educate and create an ability to tax a populace that wasn't taxable before, that seems like a good policy.

bnpederson wrote:
I'm glad to see that the citizens of Ohio care so much about California's fiscal policies.

To be fair, what happens in one state can and will effect other states, especially since California has such a massive economy.

Isn't California a net "exporter" of federal tax dollars?

LeapingGnome wrote:
WipEout wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Did California have a $14.5 million budget surplus?

Is that an honest question?

So more spending money they don't have. Got it.

You didn't answer my question directly, but it looks like your answer is no. And to answer your question honestly, no-- they did not have a budget surplus of $14.5 million. What they do have, instead, is a portion of the state funds allocated towards education and grants, of which the $14.5 million is a part. Surplus would mean that they have extra cash with nothing owed. The $14.5 million was already part of their budget.

Maybe the idea was nice and good, but I am afraid it might turn into a honeypot for illegals.

Before we want to demonize this kids who want to go to college, I suggest you take some time and watch these interviews with them.

Do you feel less American? from the excellent series of Vanguard journalism This illegal American Life.

The way the California budget works is that a certain percentage of it absolutely MUST be spent on education. The voters have put shackles on the wrists of their government. It's something like a third, or maybe even a half, a really large fraction.

So they have to use it on something that's educational. They can't even opt not to spend the money. By voter mandate, they MUST SPEND IT, even if they're borrowing to cover their total budget.

So, given the fact that they HAVE TO spend it, they might as well spend it on people who are actually resident in the state, no? They probably looked at the options, and figured that helping with college for the children of illegal immigrants gives them the biggest overall payoff. And keep in mind that Pell Grants aren't very large... they'll cover books plus a little tuition, but not much else.

The legislators in California could fix the budget, except that the voters have absolutely 100% prevented it. If you feel you must point a finger at someone, blame the people of California. Citizen initiatives have made it illegal to cut spending, and nearly impossible to raise taxes.

Bandit? Where you unaware of the circumstances, or what? What's your reaction to the fact that these one percent of in-state financial aid funds only go to those who can legally becomes citizens, have been here long enough to succeed in secondary school and are actually in the process of becoming citizens?

Hmm.

My take on things is that the single most valuable resource a society can build in a modern economy is human capital. The more efficiently that society can utilize its human capital in a skill based economy, the more competitive it will be going forward. This means educating and training people to the apex of their potential, keeping them rather than forcing or giving them incentives to leave, and providing them opportunities to utilize the skills/education they have been given. The most supreme waste is not the loss of some $14million. It is the loss of 2500 potential MacArthur fellows.

Especially in an age where our education standards are falling, our skills and education rates are lagging, and our competitiveness is being supported only by the fact that real wages have been falling steadily for the last 20 years, why the hell are we talking about discarding resident academic achievers out of some sense of ideological purity?

Seems like truly inane economics to me.

I find a certain irony in the fact that many of those who who scream the loudest about "MONEY FOR ILLEGULS" couldn't get into a college if they had to.

bandit0013 wrote:

So we have 9.1% unemployment

You don't think subsidising the education of the people most likely to be part of that 9.1% of the workforce would have a net-positive impact on unemployment figures?

bnpederson wrote:
I'm glad to see that the citizens of Ohio care so much about California's fiscal policies.

They don't, really. They care about illegal immigrants getting some kind of legitimacy. California's fiscal difficulties are an easy target and convenient mask for their xenophobia.

NSMike wrote:
bnpederson wrote:
I'm glad to see that the citizens of Ohio care so much about California's fiscal policies.

They don't, really. They care about illegal immigrants getting some kind of legitimacy. California's fiscal difficulties are an easy target and convenient mask for their xenophobia.

Sigh, here comes the race card. It doesn't really matter that I don't care if the illegal is from Peru, Poland, or China.

So let's swing the topic a bit.

Who is more racist:
The person who wants a rule of law for immigration to be followed
OR
The farmer who takes advantage of a labor force that depresses market wages

Who is more racist:
The person who wants a secure border not only for the illegal immigration issue, but also for the rampant drug/kidnapping related crime
OR
The person who hires day laborers at the Home Depot, pays them below market wages, and knows that they have no legal protection or recourse in the case of injury, abuse, etc.

It's cool though, I want American policies to benefit people who are legally here, clearly I hate brown people.

I guess you guys are right though. I mean, according to that conservative rag, the LA Times in 2006 California was spending:

$970 million a year incarcerating illegals
$4 billion per year educating (K-12) the children of illegals
$500 million in welfare benefits to illegals
$775 million on health care to illegals

So yeah, ok, I can get on board with not punishing the children for the sins of the parents, but only if you stop the immigration problem first. Giving out amnesty, college benefits, etc without actually fixing the immigration problem only serves to reward and encourage more of the behavior that is causing the issue to start with. I think it's a pretty bold assumption that making these 2,500 kids "college educated tax payers" will ever break even on the $14.5 million in taxes paid, let alone put any dent in the $6-7 billion California is paying now.

bandit0013 wrote:
So yeah, ok, I can get on board with not punishing the children for the sins of the parents, but only if you stop the immigration problem first.

Isn't solving the immigration problem supposed to be a federally-directed issue? Look at all the flak that Arizona and Utah are getting.

California can't do anything substantial about the immigration issue on its own without getting into the same hot water, but this is a step it can take at an independent, state level while waiting for the US to get its sh*t together on border issues.

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