[trailer] Avengers! My day is made

Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes. Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes. Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes...

ccesarano wrote:

It's not just about doing his job, it's that none of this weird stuff that catches everyone else off-guard has an effect on him. I think that adds a level of charm. He acts the opposite how most people would act, and it usually works for laughs.

He's the straight-man to the insanity. Also, he serves the purpose of the Dr. Who companion: he's there to give people someone to relate/anchor to among all the crazy stuff going on.

shoptroll wrote:

Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes. Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes. Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes...

Heroes was never on the rails. The first season was a cheap ripoff of Watchmen, and when they decided not to kill Sylar in the finale, the show lost any chance it had of being good.

I'm more worried about it being cancelled before it gets a chance to fall off the rails.

Stele wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes. Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes. Please let this not fall off the rails like Heroes...

Heroes was never on the rails. The first season was a cheap ripoff of Watchmen, and when they decided not to kill Sylar in the finale, the show lost any chance it had of being good.

I still feel that Heroes would have been great if it was only 1 season. That first season had an excellent pacing and momentum to it. Things connected as if they weren't just making it up as they went along. I really really liked it. And I disliked when they decided they had to make a running TV series out of it.

ccesarano wrote:

Speaking of "A funny thing happened on the way to Thor's hammer...", some of the extras on the DVDs/Blu-Rays for the Marvel films are good. I forget which ones are which, though, and one seemed like a possible set-up for the SHIELD TV show since it dealt specifically with all the leftover weapons in NYC from the aliens.

Item 47 or something like that... and yeah, that would work as a good lead-in. Another example of "neutralize the target" becoming a recruitment drive. I would say just about all of those Marvel shorts are worth watching if you have the movies. All pretty good and give some context for a few movie events as well.

Stele wrote:

The first season was a cheap ripoff of Watchmen, and when they decided not to kill Sylar in the finale, the show lost any chance it had of being good.

Yeah, well I hadn't read Watchmen at that point so I didn't realize it was a ripoff

DSGamer wrote:

I still feel that Heroes would have been great if it was only 1 season. That first season had an excellent pacing and momentum to it. Things connected as if they weren't just making it up as they went along. I really really liked it. And I disliked when they decided they had to make a running TV series out of it.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure how I managed to make it through Season 2 before giving up on the series very early into Season 3.

How is Heroes like Watchmen?

I always thought it was a copy of something like X-Men. I see tons of similarities.

Demyx wrote:

I'm more worried about it being cancelled before it gets a chance to fall off the rails.

Well, this time Whedon is working with an established property, AND the network is already advertising it. I mean, we already know it'll be on Tuesdays this Fall, and I imagine Tuesday is a pretty good day for weeknight television.

So already better than Fox.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

How is Heroes like Watchmen?

I always thought it was a copy of something like X-Men. I see tons of similarities.

Same here. It basically seemed to be a reworking of X-Men that could appeal to a more mainstream audience. For a while I groaned every time we had to watch another Claire arc because I had no interest in a "normal girl" having to deal with being a mutant, for example.

ccesarano wrote:

Well, this time Whedon is working with an established property, AND the network is already advertising it. I mean, we already know it'll be on Tuesdays this Fall, and I imagine Tuesday is a pretty good day for weeknight television.

So already better than Fox.

It's also a promotion for the cinema universe, so they can easily tie it in with all the movies they're working on. I can't imagine they axe the show before Avengers 2 in 2015. Plus, people like procedurals, and I'd be surprised if this doesn't pick up some of the Fringe audience now that series is concluded. I think it's pretty safe.

I would expect this show to not be quickly canceled, simply because it's Marvel, and the Marvel brand right now is huge. This gives them an opportunity to keep people interested in Marvel stuff during the long valleys between movie releases, and I think it's going to be really well-supported because of that. This isn't something risky and new like Heroes or Lost, it's taking a really successful, well-known universe and trying to put a new spin on it. I never watch network TV, but I'm making an exception here.

shoptroll wrote:
Stele wrote:

The first season was a cheap ripoff of Watchmen, and when they decided not to kill Sylar in the finale, the show lost any chance it had of being good.

Yeah, well I hadn't read Watchmen at that point so I didn't realize it was a ripoff

DSGamer wrote:

I still feel that Heroes would have been great if it was only 1 season. That first season had an excellent pacing and momentum to it. Things connected as if they weren't just making it up as they went along. I really really liked it. And I disliked when they decided they had to make a running TV series out of it.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure how I managed to make it through Season 2 before giving up on the series very early into Season 3.

Same here. Read Watchmen when I heard the movie was coming out, and then realized that the main S1 arc was a Watchmen ripoff, which I had heard people saying during the season but didn't know what they were talking about. And yes, also gave up watching in S3. I tried to excuse S2 as "crappy due to the writer's strike" but clearly it was much worse than that.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

How is Heroes like Watchmen?

Watchmen plot:

Spoiler:

A former hero decides to fake an alien invasion of NYC, killing half the city, and in the aftermath uniting the world. Kills lots of good heroes on the way to achieve his goal.

Heroes S1 plot

Spoiler:

A former hero plots to set off an explosion in NYC, killing tons of people, (0.7% of the world population in the episode so named), and in the aftermath plans to unite the world under Nathan Petrelli as the new president. Kills lots of good heroes on the way to achieving his goal, including planning to kill Peter for the explosion itself.

edit: question answered above

shoptroll wrote:
Stele wrote:

Heroes S1 plot

Spoiler:

A former hero plots to set off an explosion in NYC, killing tons of people, (0.7% of the world population in the episode so named), and in the aftermath plans to unite the world under Nathan Petrelli as the new president. Kills lots of good heroes on the way to achieving his goal, including planning to kill Peter for the explosion itself.

My memory is incredibly hazy, but I feel part of that isn't revealed until later seasons.

I thought so too, but I just double-checked and all that stuff was in S1.

Stele wrote:

Heroes S1 plot

Spoiler:

A former hero plots to set off an explosion in NYC, killing tons of people, (0.7% of the world population in the episode so named), and in the aftermath plans to unite the world under Nathan Petrelli as the new president. Kills lots of good heroes on the way to achieving his goal, including planning to kill Peter for the explosion itself.

My memory is incredibly hazy, but I feel part of that isn't revealed until later seasons (EDIT: Scratch that, just looked up a synopsis). The X-Men comparison is a lot more immediate than Watchmen.

What shop said. And I didn't finish season one, so I never learned about the big plot similarities.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I would expect this show to not be quickly canceled, simply because it's Marvel, and the Marvel brand right now is huge. This gives them an opportunity to keep people interested in Marvel stuff during the long valleys between movie releases, and I think it's going to be really well-supported because of that. This isn't something risky and new like Heroes or Lost, it's taking a really successful, well-known universe and trying to put a new spin on it. I never watch network TV, but I'm making an exception here.

I'm ignoring any possibility that it might not be cancelled because I don't want to jinx it :p

Live, little Whedon show, liiiiiiiive!

Seeing Heroes as an X-Men rip-off isn't entirely off, however. I think it's pretty clear the only comics the creators had were Watchmen and a Days of Future Past collection.

I'm not totally sure this can fairly be called a "Whedon show." He's got to be quite busy, and I don't think his Disney masters will give him time to be a show runner on top of their other nefarious Phase 2 plots.

Heroes couldn't be any more different from Watchmen. Watchmen was all about the personas, the outfits, the genre... the powers were secondary, downplayed. It took the idea of stereotypical comic book heroes and subverted them heavily by inflicting real world problems on them.

Heroes was all about the powers, and what that meant for the characters blessed/cursed with them. It hid the fact that it was a comic book universe as much as possible, it took a real world and subverted it by injecting in super heroes and exploring what that would mean. At least to begin with, after the first season it started flinging poo and screaming at people until it was put down.

In the end, the plot points were suprisingly similar, but the way they approached the plot was entirely different.

.... More on topic, I think I understand more about why people like Coulson now. It's funny that the very next post after my question was a trailer consisting of him showing me why people think he's great.

I wonder if this is a way to introduce Marvel characters to the Avengers. That way there doesn't have to be a movie for each hero that may show up in the Avengers movies.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

I wonder if this is a way to introduce Marvel characters to the Avengers. That way there doesn't have to be a movie for each hero that may show up in the Avengers movies.

Hawkeye?

Fedaykin98 wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

I wonder if this is a way to introduce Marvel characters to the Avengers. That way there doesn't have to be a movie for each hero that may show up in the Avengers movies.

Hawkeye?

We said Hero, not extra.

Hawkeye: Marvel's Aquaman.

ccesarano wrote:

Hawkeye: Marvel's Aquaman.

Well I never!

ccesarano wrote:

Hawkeye: Marvel's Aquaman.

You've taken it too far this time.

hbi2k wrote:

Maybe this should go under the Blasphemies thread, but I never understood the love for Hawkeye. It's like somebody created a character on a dare to see if they could make Green Arrow even gayer.

He has an amazing moment in House of M. So I can never speak ill of him for that.

Maybe this should go under the Blasphemies thread, but I never understood the love for Hawkeye. It's like somebody created a character on a dare to see if they could make Green Arrow even gayer more flamboyant.

DSGamer wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

Maybe this should go under the Blasphemies thread, but I never understood the love for Hawkeye. It's like somebody created a character on a dare to see if they could make Green Arrow even gayer.

He has an amazing moment in House of M. So I can never speak ill of him for that.

Do you mean during Avengers Disassembled?

My kid loves Hawkeye from the Avengers animated series. He's always going "Tick, Tick, Boom!".

I heard Hawkeye has a pretty good comic book series going for him. How? No idea, but it's out there.