How's work been?

Thanks for the input y'all. My wife and I are gonna work up an email and send it on Friday afternoon so they can ruminate on it over the weekend. I'm nervous but I'm also worth it.

Here is a tip - write it up and then sit on it for two days and then re-read it.

Also why an email instead of talking to your manager about it directly? Do you check-in regularly with them? These things are often best done talking so you can gauge reaction and adjust on the fly. Doing it in writing makes it more formalized and might be something I would do after already having a conversation, either as supporting documentation to back up what you talked about, or after a period of weeks if the conversation did not cause any action.

Veloxi wrote:

A little while back I asked y'all how to ask for a raise, and y'all gave me some great advice. I thank you for that.

First, go read this post.

Second, be honest with yourself about how disruptive it would be to replace you if you departed in 2 weeks, and how difficult it would be for them to replace you in 3-4 months.

Third, do you just do the job you're asked to do, or do you take initiative and do more?

Regardless of other answers, if a sudden departure is disruptive, it would be really weird if you couldn't get an increase after 1.5 years there. Do not give them the number, have them say the first number. Do it on a video call and push them to ballpark you a number right at that moment. Per the linked post, remember to flinch at whatever number the other party says.

Now, the extent to which you can push for a higher number than offered will depend on how difficult it is to replace you long term, and the extent to which you do things that you weren't tasked to do.

By the fact that you have said you feel worried about even asking, you're certainly not going to be good at this if you follow your personal social instincts. Your inclination will be to accept their justification for why they can only offer you X, but they're going to really try to do right by you next year. It is going to be very important for you to write out a conversation flow chart of responses, and plan out in advance what you're going to say when they ask you to name the number, or when they make excuses along the lines of budgets or hard times at the company or needing to revisit this in 6 months or whatever.

Oh, and if the answers were "Janet could probably cover my stuff," "Probably won't be too hard to find a replacement in a few months," and "I just do what I'm asked to do" then just take your swing and you probably don't have any room to negotiate whatever they offer you.

Finishing up with the best company I've ever worked for on Friday. I'll have been there 7 years and 10 days. Changes of Government contracts means I was made redundant but because of the company I was with I managed to get head hunted and will be starting my new job in a different industry on July 1st.

I'm going from managing a half dozen staff as a site manager in employment services to over 150 as an operations manager in home and community care, so it's one of those a door closes and then I fall out of the opening window, do a triple backflip and land on my feet.

It's a really cool opportunity and I'm excited for it, but it really sucks breaking up an amazing team and work 'family'.

I don't want to go

LeapingGnome wrote:

Here is a tip - write it up and then sit on it for two days and then re-read it.

Also why an email instead of talking to your manager about it directly? Do you check-in regularly with them? These things are often best done talking so you can gauge reaction and adjust on the fly. Doing it in writing makes it more formalized and might be something I would do after already having a conversation, either as supporting documentation to back up what you talked about, or after a period of weeks if the conversation did not cause any action.

I talk to my direct boss almost daily. It's a tiny startup so there's not really a procedure for anything at this point, so I thought I should be formal about it. We've never talked about it so maybe I should bring it up first?

Mr Crinkle wrote:
Veloxi wrote:

A little while back I asked y'all how to ask for a raise, and y'all gave me some great advice. I thank you for that.

First, go read this post.

Second, be honest with yourself about how disruptive it would be to replace you if you departed in 2 weeks, and how difficult it would be for them to replace you in 3-4 months.

Third, do you just do the job you're asked to do, or do you take initiative and do more?

Regardless of other answers, if a sudden departure is disruptive, it would be really weird if you couldn't get an increase after 1.5 years there. Do not give them the number, have them say the first number. Do it on a video call and push them to ballpark you a number right at that moment. Per the linked post, remember to flinch at whatever number the other party says.

Now, the extent to which you can push for a higher number than offered will depend on how difficult it is to replace you long term, and the extent to which you do things that you weren't tasked to do.

By the fact that you have said you feel worried about even asking, you're certainly not going to be good at this if you follow your personal social instincts. Your inclination will be to accept their justification for why they can only offer you X, but they're going to really try to do right by you next year. It is going to be very important for you to write out a conversation flow chart of responses, and plan out in advance what you're going to say when they ask you to name the number, or when they make excuses along the lines of budgets or hard times at the company or needing to revisit this in 6 months or whatever.

Oh, and if the answers were "Janet could probably cover my stuff," "Probably won't be too hard to find a replacement in a few months," and "I just do what I'm asked to do" then just take your swing and you probably don't have any room to negotiate whatever they offer you.

This is great thank you.

Salary, for me at least, is as much about perceived respect as it is about being able to pay the bills. I'm privileged of course, I've always made enough to get by + upgrade my gaming PC every few years or so

While Mr Crinkle's advice is insanely good, I would like to address the emotional side as well. My dad worked for the same employer his entire career, always making minimum wage, while doing a fantastic job as an electrician. We were never in trouble financially, but never had any luxury money either. He's in constant pain now, after 42 years laying cables etc. in unfinished homes. I always vowed not to fall into the same trap: being too afraid to ask for a raise. I was VERY nervous and did not make an assertive impression the first time I did so, but that was 15 years ago.

When switching jobs about a year ago, after zero raises for 3 years during a 14 year stint, I accepted a similar paycheck with higher bonus potential. I later learned they low-balled me, and while I get the push and pull between employer/employee I felt angry and disrespected.

So during negotiations for a different job early this year, I laid out my then-current wage/benefit package. I told them I wouldn't name a specific amount, that I mostly wanted to feel appreciation and respect from their offer. They offered me a 10% increase, I immediately accepted and here we are.

Mr Crinkle is probably shifting uneasily in his gaming chair, if he's reading this. But I think I found a good balance between my gut feeling about my current employer, and my rational goals and strategies for that specific situation.

In short: I believe it wouldn't hurt to investigate your own feelings about all this, as you're fairly anxious about the whole process (which is normal!!!). Then proceed with rational steps as Mr Crinkle and others have laid out.

Might I also suggest looking for job interviews? Not necessarily (but possibly) as direct leverage during negotiations. More to get a feel of what's out there with regards to your 2 main priorities (aside from job content itself of course): ability to work from home and pay/benefits.

Any GWJers have experience working at a large consulting firm (Big Four, etc)? If yes, what was/is it like and pros/cons in your experience versus a boutique?

I've worked at small consultancies twice, back in the 90's (50 to 100 people), and I've worked *with* a lot of BAH people. The difference is that the small ones value you for your skills and don't want you promoted away. They just want you to keep doing what you're doing, skilling up, that sort of thing.

At the big boys, it's some variant of "Make manager in 3 years or leave". Might be 5 years. But everything is predicated on organizational advancement. Since they roll consultants through projects to gain skills, the real value is in either the total rock star hackers who have stayed long enough to earn the role, or the program managers, directors, VPs and such who herd the workers around as they burn them out. Much more brutal politics and often abusive management unless you are a superstar at the customer site.

Obviously, at either one, sales and in-house sales support are the same as any other company of that size.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Any GWJers have experience working at a large consulting firm (Big Four, etc)? If yes, what was/is it like and pros/cons in your experience versus a boutique?

The work life balance sucks and there are lots of politics, need to be schmoozey with the right people. Pros are good money and good on a resume for down the line.