On Progress

Hypatian wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

rudamentary

"rudimentary"

[size=6]Sorry, I had to.[/size]

IMAGE(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3ohcQm08djA/TT71oCAn5pI/AAAAAAAAAns/c5-jw_i8lEE/s1600/rutabaga+stories.jpg)

and people say I argue semantics.

I think we need to, we must, pay our way in the world. We cannot live on debt issuance for very much longer. We have to actually earn what we consume, not just promise to earn it later.

I tend to think that if we get that right, and preserve civil liberties, most of our other good wishes will come to pass, in time.

Malor wrote:

I think we need to, we must, pay our way in the world. We cannot live on debt issuance for very much longer. We have to actually earn what we consume, not just promise to earn it later.

I tend to think that if we get that right, and preserve civil liberties, most of our other good wishes will come to pass, in time.

I'm wondering how this all ties into tariffs and fair trade. We're never going to be able to compete as a workforce if employers are willing to ship jobs to third world countries and pay people $40 a month.

Bear:

A fair amount of that is due to currency relationships. Countries in general have plans and strategies for managing their internal economies based on currency strategy, so that's part of the "problem." If the entire world had a single currency and a single minimum wage, it would be less of an issue.

Ultimately, if we want to be paid more than Chinese or Indian workers who are also capable of doing a given job, we have to be worth more. And that's up to us. No games with currency will let us dodge that forever.

What we really need to be doing is training ourselves into complex, high-skill jobs that they simply can't reasonably compete with us for. All the grousing about illegal immigration and 'they're taking our jerbs' is ridiculous... if you're worried about having your job taken by a guy or gal who barely speaks English and has no real education, you have completely failed at making yourself competitive. The world does not owe you a living, you have to go earn it. If your skills are so poor that illegal immigrants can actually do a better job than you can, you've got no bitch coming.

Malor:

It isn't that simple. The cost of living in countries other than the US is cheaper, partly because of the exchange rate. This means that while a worker may earn $2 a day, if he's in a favorably cheap economy, he can get more for his money, comparatively, than someone in the US, UK, or Japan can. As a simple example, $700 a month will get you a nice, posh apartment in the heart of Manila complete with great parking space, guards, lobbies, gym, club house, swimming pool - the works. $1000 a month will get you a spacious condo with all of that, built on top of a megamall, with easy access to convenient public transpo. Never need to see the dirty streets of Manila ever again!

On the lower end of that spectrum, $50 - $100 a month in a remote locality is easily enough rent for a nice house with parking space. If you're single, you can live by yourself, have a vehicle, net a few luxuries, and go out every now and again for $10 a day.

Malor wrote:

Ultimately, if we want to be paid more than Chinese or Indian workers who are also capable of doing a given job, we have to be worth more.

To follow up on what LarryC is saying, if you want to be paid more than someone you need a better bargaining position than them. That may have to do with being worth more, it may not.