NFL 2011 Week 3

AnimeJ wrote:

Ok, the call was made against a player *NOT* on the field; even though the referee announced 21, it was actually against 29, and there isn't a #29. What a load of sh*t; those refs need fired and fined.

A bit harsh on the refs, don't you think? I'm sure if you made a mistake at work, you wouldn't want your bosses to take the same actions against you, correct?

Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

Gabbert, meanwhile, is ... well, let's say he and Jimmy Clausen probably had a lot to chat about after the game.

Gabbert had some painful issues with taking the snap from center ... Or are you referring to protection? ... Gabbert was late on a few throws ...

And he gave up a safety. You forgot to mention that.

Gabbert may very well be the JAX QB of the future, but he sure didn't look like it Sunday. He reminded me an awful lot of Clausen 2010 -- live arm, not as accurate as he should have been, no receivers, poor pass protection (against Charles Johnson, some other guy, two rookie linemen and two backup linebackers, no less) and a problem dealing with the basics, such as taking the snap from center (one of Clausen's many problems last year) and knowing to throw the ball away when you're in your own freakin' end zone.

You're in for a long season, brother. I've been there. It sucks.

@MMD: I'm sorry you got stuck watching that game. If that hadn't have been the Panthers swimming around there, I would have turned it off and done something else.

I have Sunday Ticket and I chose to watch it; it was hilarious. No, it wasn't "good" football, but it was most definitely entertaining watching them slosh around. Bad weather games have an entertainment value all their own.

I also think you're being way too harsh on Gabbert; Claussen had a lot of time to learn the offense and get settled. The Jags were pretty clearly hoping that the Luke McCown Experience was going to be decent enough to last a bit further into the season to allow Gabbert to get a bit more comfortable with the pro game, and week 2's epic four-pick crapfest was just too lousy to let it continue. So, they threw the rookie to the wolves. Remember there was a very short offseason and Gabbert hasn't exactly had a lot of first-team practice reps. Considering that as well as the horrid weather, I thought Gabbert looked OK. Nothing screamed "utter failure" or "future NFL stud who might one day be worthy of carrying Josh Freeman's jock".

As for the safety, I looked at the video. He's a rookie, playing in his very first game, and it's 3rd and 13 on his own six yard line on a horrible rainy day. The defender completely blew past the RT almost completely untouched, and Gabbert was sacked in about three seconds. Factoring all that in, I'm not exactly inclined to blame the kid for that one. He was utterly screwed from the get-go.

Kush15 wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Ok, the call was made against a player *NOT* on the field; even though the referee announced 21, it was actually against 29, and there isn't a #29. What a load of sh*t; those refs need fired and fined.

A bit harsh on the refs, don't you think? I'm sure if you made a mistake at work, you wouldn't want your bosses to take the same actions against you, correct?

This is kind of where my mind went too.

You filed that report ten minutes late? Well aren't you just a worthless sack of crap. You're fired!

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I also think you're being way too harsh on Gabbert; Claussen had a lot of time to learn the offense and get settled.

Yet another (unintended) similarity between the two. Remember that Matt Moore was the annointed starter all through 2010 OTAs and the preseason. After Moore stunk for two weeks, John Fox threw in Jimmy Clausen ... in Week 3!

Seriously, though, I'm not ready to write off Gabbert either after just one game. Then again, I thought Clausen would get better over the course of the season, too.

Enix wrote:

not as accurate as he should have been

See, I don't know where you saw this. Accuracy was the main thing Gabbert had working for him. Very few balls were off-target. Receivers dropped a ton of routine catches and that knocks Gabbert in the stats column, but not the evaluation.

I'll bet that well before the end of the season, you won't be making Clausen comparisons. Well, the receivers issue might still apply.

FWIW, when I turned the game on yesterday, I tried to remember the name of one of Jacksonville's starting WRs. I failed. I did at least recognize Mike Thomas once I heard the name.

Enix wrote:

Yet another (unintended) similarity between the two. Remember that Matt Moore was the annointed starter all through 2010 OTAs and the preseason. After Moore stunk for two weeks, John Fox threw in Jimmy Clausen ... in Week 3!

Clausen had a full offseason (including those OTAs you mentioned), Gabbert didn't. Gabbert entered his week 3 game with a lot less preparation time than Clausen.

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

Yet another (unintended) similarity between the two. Remember that Matt Moore was the annointed starter all through 2010 OTAs and the preseason. After Moore stunk for two weeks, John Fox threw in Jimmy Clausen ... in Week 3!

Clausen had a full offseason (including those OTAs you mentioned), Gabbert didn't. Gabbert entered his week 3 game with a lot less preparation time than Clausen.

Which suggests that Clausen was (and is -- he hasn't been active yet this season) a pretty miserable QB after all.

All I'm saying is that Gabbert gave me Clausen flashbacks. Four fumbled snaps, a safety, a fly ball INT in a downpour, a no-name corps of WRs that can't catch - yep, that was Carolina 2010.

I hope Gabbert gets better. Maybe he will. But Sunday's performance against a defense you'd probably rank as below average and in a stadium where a lot of the home fans stayed home ... yecccch.

Enix wrote:

Which suggests that Clausen was (and is -- he hasn't been active yet this season) a pretty miserable QB after all.

Quite possibly. The only thing I concluded from my little two-game look at Clausen was that I didn't see enough evidence of Clausen-specific awfulness to conclude that he was as bad as advertised. A good chunk of that was due to lack of opportunity - Clausen had few opportunities to fail as other Panthers were failing first.

In those games, Clausen didn't have Gabbert's accuracy, though Gabbert didn't have Clausen's level of non-protection (the Jag line wasn't good Sunday, but it wasn't the same level of awfulness).

Some things I will write off as early-action flukes unless they become recurring issues. A bunch of fumbled snaps in his first start is one of those things. I'm not going to ding any rookie college shotgun QB for that unless it's still happening frequently come midseason. Josh Freeman had problems with fumbled snaps early, it's not unexpected for someone transitioning to playing under center. (That's kind of why I think Carolina is doing the right thing by not putting Newton in that situation very much).

And that's one big counterpoint to your Clausen/Gabbert comparison - Clausen was an under-the-center college QB, not a shotgun spread guy. Taking snaps from center was not a transition issue for Clausen.

Looks like the Vegas odd on Dallas are -3. Can the Skins pull off the upset in Big D?

Keep hope alive Legion!!!

TheGameguru wrote:

Keep hope alive Legion!!!

Hey, hope just began! It's not injured enough yet to need life support!

*Legion* wrote:

Quite possibly. The only thing I concluded from my little two-game look at Clausen was that I didn't see enough evidence of Clausen-specific awfulness to conclude that he was as bad as advertised. A good chunk of that was due to lack of opportunity - Clausen had few opportunities to fail as other Panthers were failing first.

Which is why I drew the comparison. Jax has what appears to be a lame-duck coach, an OC who isn't particularly bold (except for the Mike Thomas TD pass - that was a thing of beauty) and a crummy set of receivers. Throw in all the fumbled snaps (you'd think the Jags would have noticed that Gabbert was a shotgun QB in college and would have, you know, practiced that), the fly-ball INT to Sherrod Martin, that awful safety and the brain fart at the end of the game and, well, it looks pretty darn familiar.

I think the comparison you suggested -- how the Panthers are dealing with Newton vs. how the Jags are handling Gabbert -- is an apt one, and I think Carolina gets the edge here. Carolina is not afraid to have Newton chuck the ball, and they're doing a pretty good job of giving him plays that (a) take advantage of single coverage and (b) don't rely a lot on timing or touch. As inaccurate as Newton was yesterday, he didn't get picked, and he didn't force the ball into spots it shouldn't have gone.

Take a look at Carolina's TD pass at the end of the game. Steve Smith came across the middle and drew one of the LBs. Greg Olsen drew single coverage from the OLB while the DB just sat back and watched the play unfold. (Who did he think he was covering anyway? The WR behind him had double coverage, and there was no one outside once the TE came across the middle.). Newton flicked it in the gap between the center and guard, and Olsen rumbled into the end zone. It was a very safe pass to a wide open guy who wasn't touched in the red zone. Ball game, Carolina.

Enix wrote:

and the brain fart at the end of the game

That wasn't Gabbert. He was aware the clock started running and the center wasn't. He tried in vain to get Meester to snap immediately but Meester didn't realize.

I think the comparison you suggested -- how the Panthers are dealing with Newton vs. how the Jags are handling Gabbert -- is an apt one, and I think Carolina gets the edge here.

It's the difference between spending what little offseason there was designing the offense for the new quarterback, versus going into the offseason with the plan of bringing in the new quarterback gradually, and then later finding yourself abandoning that plan.

The Jags expected to be able to ride Garrard for a while and bring Gabbert slowly. Garrard was so horrendously awful in camp and preseason that they just couldn't stick to that plan.

And that's the biggest problem with Gabbert right now. Not only did he not get a full offseason, but he didn't get the first team work that Newton and Dalton did in the compressed offseason.

But all of that is circumstance, as opposed to whether a guy can play or not. I think the Jaguars messed up this situation by not just committing to Gabbert from the start, and now he's having to get his lost reps in games instead of in camp. That means it will be ugly early, but it doesn't mean the guy is doomed to be Jimmy Clausen. Struggles from playing too early and taking your lumps aren't permanent. Get those reps.

Does anyone really care about the horrid first year records guys like Aikman and Manning posted? Nah. And I don't care if the Jaguars post a sh*tty record in 2011. What I care about is the team moving from the QB have-nots group over to the QB haves. I want to see from Gabbert what Tampa fans got from Josh Freeman in year 1: obvious franchise QB potential wrapped up in an inexperienced and still work-in-progress package.

And if Gabbert can't show that? Draft Luck. Get out of the QB-have-nots group one way or another. But having watched Gabbert's raw throwing ability, I don't think it is going to come to that. The rough edges can all be polished away if he can put those passes where he wants to (and maybe, someday, someone that will hold onto them?)

Man, the Rams are playing so poorly I'm not even interested in watching the Ravens crush them. Maybe I'll watch the Carolina/Jacksonville game to get a look at those QBs.

I saw a billboard today on my way through Chicago which had a picture of Julius Peppers tackling Aaron Rodgers with the tagline "That's the way the QB crumbles". I LOL'd

*Legion* wrote:

Does anyone really care about the horrid first year records guys like Aikman and Manning posted? Nah. And I don't care if the Jaguars post a sh*tty record in 2011. What I care about is the team moving from the QB have-nots group over to the QB haves. I want to see from Gabbert what Tampa fans got from Josh Freeman in year 1: obvious franchise QB potential wrapped up in an inexperienced and still work-in-progress package.

In further defense of Gabbert, Freeman was pretty awful as a rookie. IIRC, his very first play (of all times, it was against the Patriots, in London), he was strip-sacked for a lost fumble. He started nine games and threw 10 TDs and 18 picks, including FIVE in one game against Carolina. He was lousy in all sorts of ways, but there was potential; in his first game, he led the team back from an 11 point deficit to beat the Packers. Judging Gabbert in any way based on his first start in awful weather is far from fair. Oh, and he definitely looked better than Clausen, but Captain Douche-Face isn't exactly fair. He's like the Godwinization of QB discussions; his performance was so extreme, it ruins the discussion. Jimmy Clausen is like Hitler, except I'm pretty sure Hitler could have done a better job throwing the quick out.

Rob Ryan gets so much more camera time than the head coach. I actually thought he was the head coach in Cleveland because of how much they showed him. I assume it's because of his hair.

How was that not pass interference in the endzone?

Cowboys look like ass. The center looks like he is afeared. Redskins should win this. Grossman looks pretty good.

Nightmare wrote:

Grossman looks pretty good.

Hello, Chicago Bears fan here. Don't put money on him. Trust me.

Jeez refs wakeup. A fumble and then a missed penalty back to back plays. Good thing Grossman didn't complete that pass.

And now that I won my fantasy game with enough Romo points, go Redskins!

Dallas is terrible. Bad snaps, mental mistakes, an offense that can't even score a TD. Running out of bounds on that last play. They really deserve to lose.

Psych wrote:
Nightmare wrote:

Grossman looks pretty good.

Hello, Chicago Bears fan here. Don't put money on him. Trust me.

Hehe.

Glad that Romo is gonna earn some respect with this win, ugly as it was, without him it would have been far, far worse. I can't see Kitna recovering all those bad snaps, so is that center going to be fired tomorrow or what?

Props to Dallas' kicker too

Barab wrote:
Psych wrote:
Nightmare wrote:

Grossman looks pretty good.

Hello, Chicago Bears fan here. Don't put money on him. Trust me.

Hehe.

Glad that Romo is gonna earn some respect with this win, ugly as it was, without him it would have been far, far worse. I can't see Kitna recovering all those bad snaps, so is that center going to be fired tomorrow or what?

Props to Dallas' kicker too

All aboard the Romo Rollercoaster. The highs and lows are hilarious for all of us non Dallas fans. Best part is he might actually convince that team hes the guy for another couple of years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nPrx...

Enix wrote:

I hope Gabbert gets better. Maybe he will. But Sunday's performance against a defense you'd probably rank as below average and in a stadium where a lot of the home fans stayed home ... yecccch.

I would disagree with this one important point: d-line. Gabbert was getting pressured a lot of the time. Hardy and Johnson are a good pair out there. In fact, for the most part, I think Newton looked worse when passing as he was missing open receivers left and right and Jacksonvillle had no pass rush to speak of. It wasn't until late in the game that Newton started making some throws.

And boy do I agree with Legion, those Jacksonville receivers dropped a bunch of passes. However, Gabbert also threw a lot of passes where the receivers were getting hit as they went for it or right after the ball go there. A little more zip on the ball and he might've made more of those passes (though more zip probably just means more Jags receivers having balls bounce off their chest).

I'm not taking a whole lot from this game other than it was a mess, an absolute mess.