Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword Catch-All

nivek wrote:

Why does Fi talk like a sentient supercomputer? And why can't I turn her off? All I want is to play a Zelda game where there isn't someone standing on my shoulder shouting "Don't you think we should be doing THIS now?"

She is killing me. I don't mind some of the usual tutorial crap but when someone tells me something and she chimes in just to repeat what I was just told, it just ruins that moment for me.

gregrampage wrote:
nivek wrote:

Why does Fi talk like a sentient supercomputer? And why can't I turn her off? All I want is to play a Zelda game where there isn't someone standing on my shoulder shouting "Don't you think we should be doing THIS now?"

She is killing me. I don't mind some of the usual tutorial crap but when someone tells me something and she chimes in just to repeat what I was just told, it just ruins that moment for me.

You guys.... she ice skates on water while telling stories! What more could you want?

She's there for new and/or younger players.

Cheeto1016 wrote:
gregrampage wrote:
nivek wrote:

Why does Fi talk like a sentient supercomputer? And why can't I turn her off? All I want is to play a Zelda game where there isn't someone standing on my shoulder shouting "Don't you think we should be doing THIS now?"

She is killing me. I don't mind some of the usual tutorial crap but when someone tells me something and she chimes in just to repeat what I was just told, it just ruins that moment for me.

You guys.... she ice skates on water while telling stories! What more could you want?

Hey, I can appreciate a flawless double-toe-loop as much as the next guy, especially while throwing in a good tale into the bargain! But please, for the love of Hyrule, stop telling me what to do next!

ClockworkHouse wrote:

She's there for new and/or younger players.

Which is great, I just wish there was an option to turn it off. I imagine if I was replaying it would be even more difficult to handle.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

She's there for new and/or younger players.

Yes, but why can't they take into account the needs of us cantankerous old guys who like to settle in for a good hero saves the princess story once in a while!

My favorite is actually right after she is done with her "routine" in each dungeon... I just wait for it to be over and have her pop RIGHT back out to tell me where to go next. They could not have worked that into her "routine"? They had to end it.... and then have her pop RIGHT back out... every time? I just wait for it and giggle to myself... I could be delusional though.

Yeah I noticed that one too cheeto. It was like what? Why did you go back into the sword only to pop right back out the very next scene?

The past few complaints are the presentation things I was talking about earlier in this thread.

It sounds like what you all really need is a Zelda game for grown-ups.

...and we've come full circle.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

It sounds like what you all really need is a Zelda game for grown-ups.

I kept hearing that Darksiders had similarities to Zelda so I gave it a shot. It was then that I realized that there's a lot more to the Zelda formula than the mechanics.

nivek wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

It sounds like what you all really need is a Zelda game for grown-ups.

I kept hearing that Darksiders had similarities to Zelda so I gave it a shot. It was then that I realized that there's a lot more to the Zelda formula than the mechanics.

And there's a lot more polish to the mechanics and design than people give them credit for. I'm not a fan of Darksiders, but I love that "Zelda for grown-ups" meme because it's so wrong.

It would actually be interesting to play Skyward Sword and Darksiders back-to-back and compare the two. If I didn't have an enormous pile...

Except such a game is not without it's presentation faults, mostly in the way it does some cuts. as I mentioned in that thread of the Game That Shall Not Be Named:

Me in that thread[/url]]There's a lot of good and a bit of polish lacking that keeps bugging me, but it's nowhere near game breaking. ...

I just wish it didn't take 5 seconds to load the map every time you want to look at it.

and as I further expounded down the page:

It's not an input delay per se, it's when you hit the button for the map, a black screen with a blue emlem pops up for a second or two, then the map. That bugs me to no end as some times I like to check my map run for a few seconds and go back to the map. The map should just pop up. Also, the minimap hasn't helped a whole lot so far. Also, the only other issue is some decisions they made on cuts / transitions in their presentation.

ClockworkHouse, every time you post, I just keep thinking, "Does horse heart taste like chicken?"

nivek wrote:

ClockworkHouse, every time you post, I just keep thinking, "Does horse heart taste like chicken?"

No. But it is similar to chicken heart.

Trust me on this one.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

The past few complaints are the presentation things I was talking about earlier in this thread.

I am not complaining at all. I love the game so far. I am just talking for conversation sake.

Cheeto1016 wrote:
mrtomaytohead wrote:

The past few complaints are the presentation things I was talking about earlier in this thread.

I am not complaining at all. I love the game so far. I am just talking for conversation sake.

I admit it. I'm complaining. Sorry. Blame it on my pampered upbringing.

It's really the best Zelda I've played in some time. I love that when I approach a new enemy, I have to figure out how to defeat them:

Spoiler:

Like when you have to use the beetle to drop the plants hanging from the ceiling so you can cross the tightrope, or getting the attention of the goblin guys to lure them onto the tightrope so I can knock them off with the slingshot, or when you're climbing the volcano and they're throwing boulders down and you have to hit them with the slingshot so the boulder lands on their head. All this stuff is just brilliant to me.

nivek wrote:
Spoiler:

Like when you have to use the beetle to drop the plants hanging from the ceiling so you can cross the tightrope, or getting the attention of the goblin guys to lure them onto the tightrope so I can knock them off with the slingshot, or when you're climbing the volcano and they're throwing boulders down and you have to hit them with the slingshot so the boulder lands on their head. All this stuff is just brilliant to me.

That's funny... I do that part different.

Spoiler:

When the goblin guys are on the rope, I drop down so I'm hanging from it. Then I shake the rope (wiimote) and they fall.

Stele wrote:
nivek wrote:
Spoiler:

Like when you have to use the beetle to drop the plants hanging from the ceiling so you can cross the tightrope, or getting the attention of the goblin guys to lure them onto the tightrope so I can knock them off with the slingshot, or when you're climbing the volcano and they're throwing boulders down and you have to hit them with the slingshot so the boulder lands on their head. All this stuff is just brilliant to me.

That's funny... I do that part different.

Spoiler:

When the goblin guys are on the rope, I drop down so I'm hanging from it. Then I shake the rope (wiimote) and they fall.

as do I

Spoiler:

I just start walking across it and shake the wiimote like the icon says to and they call off cause he kinda jumps/wiggles the rope.

Cheeto1016 wrote:
Stele wrote:
nivek wrote:
Spoiler:

Like when you have to use the beetle to drop the plants hanging from the ceiling so you can cross the tightrope, or getting the attention of the goblin guys to lure them onto the tightrope so I can knock them off with the slingshot, or when you're climbing the volcano and they're throwing boulders down and you have to hit them with the slingshot so the boulder lands on their head. All this stuff is just brilliant to me.

That's funny... I do that part different.

Spoiler:

When the goblin guys are on the rope, I drop down so I'm hanging from it. Then I shake the rope (wiimote) and they fall.

as do I

Spoiler:

I just start walking across it and shake the wiimote like the icon says to and they call off cause he kinda jumps/wiggles the rope.

It seems appropriate that I chose the method that requires the least amount of exertion.

Darksiders is very different from Zelda. For one thing, the combat doesn't make me want to punt a baby into a wood chipper.

Seriously, I want to go to every major decision maker at Nintendo and deliver a crotch for believing this Wii Motion Plus thing was an actual improvement and made the game better. The first boss would be cool if it weren't for the "more precise 1:1 Wii Motion Plus" screwing up how it reads my movements, or my movements simply being too damn fast for it. Which brings to mind, if it truly was 1:1 and just followed my movements precisely, I wouldn't need the game trying to precisely read what direction I was swinging. It would just do it.

Now I gotta do a bunch of the first dungeon again because I died and forgot to save before going up against the boss.

ccesarano wrote:

Now I gotta do a bunch of the first dungeon again because I died and forgot to save before going up against the boss.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/WezLq.jpg)

Had to.

Found out what the dome in the sky is all about

Spoiler:

(very underwhelming)

and got to my first trial, which was fun until I failed near the end.

cyrax wrote:

Had to. ;)

"Save early and save often" - The Sierra mantra :p

I'm not having a ton of trouble with the combat so far... Deku Babas seem very sensitive to actual distance in addition to the orientation of your strike. Really feels like you have to slice them with the tip of your blade... The moblin(? the red dudes) groups are a bit more annoying mostly because when they throw up a block they seem to block everything, but flailing around seems to work ok-ish.

I've got an upgraded wooden shield going into the first dungeon and a spare regular shield in my pocket. Who's the man?

Oh and found an amusing easter egg tonight:

Spoiler:

Next time you go into Beedle's, don't buy anything and try to leave

Definitely loving this game so far, and I feel that by taking a bit more relaxed approach to it I'm enjoying it more than OoT 3D where I tried to rush through it. I now feel like Zelda is a series where if you just give yourself up to the game it'll reward you ten-fold for your time.

Funny, I like the combat in this game and utterly despised it in Darksiders...

But I've always liked motion controls.

shoptroll wrote:

Oh and found an amusing easter egg tonight:

Spoiler:

Next time you go into Beedle's, don't buy anything and try to leave

Yeah I did that the other day.

Once upon a time, a small boy in a green tunic wandered around the wilderness with a magic sword (it was dangerous to go alone), and when he fell below 3 hearts it beeped. People thought this was cool because, in a feedback-scarce environment, more feedback was always better. Some time later a small boy in a green tunic wandered around the wilderness with a primeval wind instrument, and the beeping was joined by "HEY! LISTEN!". People thought this was endearing in an eye-gouging sort of way. Then, apparently before all of this happened, a small boy in a green tunic wandered around the sky with 1:1 motion controls, and the beeping and "HEY! LISTEN!" were still f*cking there.

It beeps when you're low on health. It beeps when a new enemy hits you too much. It beeps when you stand still for too long, move too much, or look at things. Pretty much the only time it stops beeping is when you turn it off.

The thing about audio feedback is that you have somewhat limited bandwidth for it and it is incredibly difficult to ignore. Modern design methodology suggests that you should offer audio feedback only when it is directly solicited, as an immediate response to input, or when something important requires your immediate attention. If you use it for every little thing it can annoy people, make them feel anxious, distract them from more important activities, and of course reduce the relative impact of other more pressing beep-based events (like the boy who beeped wolf). What you might do instead is use more subtle forms of visual feedback for state information like health and for contextual tooltip-type stuff. Y'know, like everyone else does. Must they continue catering to people's nostalgia for poor user interface design?

I prefer beeping over grey-outs and detail-outs. Those can be really, really annoying and cause you to actually die because you can't see anything.

Which visual cue would you be referring to 4xis.black? Offhand, I don't know that every single other company uses the exact same one or type. I found the one in Batman a little too imprecise and somewhat unhelpful. I also found it obtrusive.

It's not a matter of one specific cue; it's a matter of finding a visual cue that is harmonious with your mechanics and the other UI elements.

Doom used a progressively bloody face. Half-Life turned the counter from yellow to red. Skyward Sword already has the heart meter swelling and flashing, which is possibly enough. Left 4 Dead does all kinds of clever things. Games that do not expose numerical health counters, like contemporary cover-based shooters, will often use the grey-out stuff you mention both to (arguably) enhance the game's aesthetics while conveying health information, but since Zelda uses atomic health units this may not work. Dead Space just stuck the health meter on the player character's back, which worked with its pace and camera but wouldn't with Zelda. Often games that use a 'shield + health' combo (Borderlands for example) will beep at you when the shield runs down, which is more acceptable for a few reasons, the most important being that it is a very temporary status and will cease as soon as you're out of immediate mortal danger. It's also less likely that the player will be able to keep track of her wildly-fluctuating shield levels in the heat of combat, whereas the pace of Zelda is rather deliberate and you almost always get periods of safety after being hit during which you will check your heart gauge.

AT THE VERY LEAST, the thing should only beep frequently while you're busy fighting stuff. There is no reason to have it screaming at you all the time; chances are if I'm wounded I'm already on the lookout for hearts, and if I'm not noticing opportunities to replenish my health the game isn't making them obvious enough. If you wanted to make dead sure that players who manage to ignore the health mechanic entirely remember to go looking for health, you could highlight heart-containing objects in the environment, have Link's walk animation become labored (this is another good one that lots of games do), or even redesign health to be encounter-based rather than persistent (depending on whether running around smashing pots is truly important for pace, aesthetics, etc... as well as how important the potion/health/rupee economy is; obviously a move like that has massive design implications).

As for Fi, the big problem is that she has only one notification for all different kinds of functions. Is she going to tell me something I would actually find useful, or is it going to be hand-holding stuff for new players? Is she saying something new, or just repeating the current plot imperative? Is she gonna talk about something I'm looking at right now, or about something more general? All I know is 'BEEP', and summoning her will result in a rather drawn-out modal dialog sequence that I cannot skim or instantaneously skip. This is basic stuff! We know how to solve this stuff! Even OoT had Navi start flying around the things about which she would be telling him; talk about throwing the fairy out with the fairy bathwater.

ccesarano wrote:

The first boss would be cool if it weren't for the "more precise 1:1 Wii Motion Plus" screwing up how it reads my movements, or my movements simply being too damn fast for it.

This happens to me sometimes too, where I feel like the game isn't keeping up and is getting confused by my movements. I find that if I slow down a bit and make movements that are more deliberate, things tend to smooth out. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that there is a maximum acceleration the WM+ can detect. I found that little tidbit to be very helpful.

That being said, killing moblins is best done by flailing around like an out of control helicopter.