"Don't Ask Don't Tell" Ruled Unconstitutional by Federal Judge

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Al wrote:

"It's offensive to compare DADT to racial discrimination because black people didn't choose to be black." This seems to be the standard line.

Which would be a valid counterargument if gay people chose to be gay. It doesn't work like that, though.

Who better to comment on what it means to be homosexual than heterosexual people? Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to lecture my wife on what it's like to go through childbirth.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Al wrote:

"It's offensive to compare DADT to racial discrimination because black people didn't choose to be black." This seems to be the standard line.

Which would be a valid counterargument if gay people chose to be gay. It doesn't work like that, though.

Who better to comment on what it means to be homosexual than heterosexual people? Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to lecture my wife on what it's like to go through childbirth.

And that's the last time we shall ever hear from MilkmanDanimal again.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Who better to comment on what it means to be homosexual than heterosexual people? Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to lecture my wife on what it's like to go through childbirth.

That's some grade-A snark, but a swing and a miss.

The stand alone repeal bill passed the House.

I really do think a lot of the top brass thinks that all gays act like Big Gay Al and that if they allow open homosexuality that suddenly half their troops are going to start talking with lisps, wearing pink scarves and singing Judy Garland songs while they skip-march through drill. The fact that gays are regular people that are already serving in the military and who can be just as bada@@ as any other overly-testoteroned male seems to have missed their attention.

I think in all seriousness it's the hardcore Christians who have a problem with this. It's not so much that they flame as that they would offend against the morality of the military and reduce it's high standards, simply because they are *not* regular people, in their view.

Robear wrote:
I really do think a lot of the top brass thinks that all gays act like Big Gay Al and that if they allow open homosexuality that suddenly half their troops are going to start talking with lisps, wearing pink scarves and singing Judy Garland songs while they skip-march through drill. The fact that gays are regular people that are already serving in the military and who can be just as bada@@ as any other overly-testoteroned male seems to have missed their attention.

I think in all seriousness it's the hardcore Christians who have a problem with this. It's not so much that they flame as that they would offend against the morality of the military and reduce it's high standards, simply because they are *not* regular people, in their view.

Well that's a pretty standard fundamentalist approach to homosexuality. It's a constant effort to try to make gay "not normal". Don't let them come to prom. Don't allow gay marriage. Don't allow adoption. Don't let them be teachers. It's not that there's any really good reason or evidence why things like this should happen, it's just that they want you to know they're right and gay people are abnormal.

Nevin73 wrote:

Maybe they are scared that the ranks will swell with gays since they appear to be the only people who are still in shape in the US.

Dennis Leary posted something on Twitter a while ago about gays being the only Americans who want to get married and fight for their country, but everyone's trying to stop them.

Kehama wrote:

So the Marine Corps' top general says having gays serve openly will get soldiers killed because they're "distracting".

"When your life hangs on the line," said Gen. James F. Amos, the commandant of the Marine Corps, "you don't want anything distracting. . . . Mistakes and inattention or distractions cost Marines' lives."
...
"Right now is a very intense period of time for a pretty healthy slice of the United States Marine Corps. This is not training," Amos said.

"The forces that wear this uniform, that are in the middle of what I call the real deal, came back and told their commandant of the Marine Corps they have concerns," Amos said.

"That's all I need. I don't need a staff study. I don't need to hire three PhDs to tell me what to interpret it," he said. "If they have concerns, I do, too. It's as simple as that."

The commandant is supposed to be having lunch at our base tomorrow, I really want to crash it and tell him he's being an ass. A distraction? Really? Because gays aren't currently serving in the military and nobody knows about it? Suure, sure. Living with a Marine on a Navy base, I've noticed that the only ones who really care about gays in the military are the very religious, ultra conservative set. All the guys I know here all have stories that start with "oh back in my old unit, Lance Cpl So-and-so was queerer than a three dollar bill" and nobody CARES. If he/she does his job, then fine.

Honestly, I think active duty military respect gay soldiers more than they do women soldiers. Pretty much every women in the military is automatically a slut. (The deployment whores don't help.)

I also read a few months ago how the military polled spouses of active duty, to find out how they think repealing DADT would affect military units. As an active duty military spouse myself, I can't help but wonder why my opinion matters in this case? I'm not in the unit, I'm not affected. I guess there's always the possibility that my husband might "catch" the "gay" or something. /sarcasm

I know I'm not really adding any talking points to the convo, but this whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach, to see this kind of discrimination in this day and age. Ugh.

Katheros wrote:

Living with a Marine on a Navy base, I've noticed that the only ones who really care about gays in the military are the very religious, ultra conservative set. All the guys I know here all have stories that start with "oh back in my old unit, Lance Cpl So-and-so was queerer than a three dollar bill" and nobody CARES. If he/she does his job, then fine.

This a million times over. I'm in the Army and the only people I've heard say they would care about it are the hardcore religious right that feel the people turn gay on purpose and are trying to take everyone to hell with them. NO ONE CARES other than the loud religious right. I actually had a coworker in my previous unit that was "queerer than a three dollar bill". We called him the baker, because he would bake cakes, cookies and pies and bring them into work. He was also one of the best Soldiers at his job. And a damn fine baker too.

The Senate has ended any filibuster on the DADT bill by a vote of 63-33.

The final vote will happen about 3 PM Eastern today.

Shortly thereafter, John McCain will officially be declared a relic.

Here's hoping there are no surprises.

Looks like it was 63 to 33, so it's off to the President!

Senate repeals ban on gays openly serving in military

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/...

The military's prohibition of openly gay people serving within its ranks is one step closer to ending, after the Senate voted Saturday to repeal the armed forces' "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Several Republicans joined the chamber's Democrats in supporting the legislation, which passed by a 65-31 margin. The bill needed a simple majority -- meaning support from 51 of the Senate's 100 members -- to pass.

So now we can join the rest of the civilized world in allowing gays to serve openly. I think I'll be having a drink tonight. Congrats all!

edit:
Heh Robear beat me to the scoop.

Finally!

Coo'

First!

...ah, sh*t.

Now for a thread on implementation of the "winding back" of the policy? The question now seems to be whether to do this quickly, or with long, slow strokes. I can't envision what "going quickly" would look like outside of a Red Square Gay Pride parade.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

First!

...ah, sh*t.

Now for a thread on implementation of the "winding back" of the policy? The question now seems to be whether to do this quickly, or with long, slow strokes. I can't envision what "going quickly" would look like outside of a Red Square Gay Pride parade.

I'm sure this will be included in the mandatory quarterly sexual harassment/equal opportunity training. It shouldn't impact anything other than allowing those that are gay to serve without fear of losing their job and pension.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

First!

...ah, sh*t.

Now for a thread on implementation of the "winding back" of the policy? The question now seems to be whether to do this quickly, or with long, slow strokes. I can't envision what "going quickly" would look like outside of a Red Square Gay Pride parade.

I prefer long, slow strokes.

Do you think if McCain lives another 25 years he'll be ready to say "On the gays in the military issue, we all learn, OK? We all learn. I will admit to learning, and I hope that the people that I represent appreciate that, too. I voted in 1983 against the recognition of Martin Luther King and in 2010 against repealing don't ask don't tell I regret those votes." ?

edit: I just watched McCain's little speech. Wow. Whatever respect I ever had for him has just gone down the crapper. What an ass.

Yeah, I have a sudden urge to listen to Public Enemy's "By the Time I Get to Arizona", then go take a dump on McCain's front step.

Paleocon wrote:

Do you think if McCain lives another 25 years he'll be ready to say "On the gays in the military issue, we all learn, OK? We all learn. I will admit to learning, and I hope that the people that I represent appreciate that, too. I voted in 1983 against the recognition of Martin Luther King and in 2010 against repealing don't ask don't tell I regret those votes." ?

McCain (sigh). I think it's possible he means well on DADT. I imagine as a pilot and ex-POW, he's exceptionally sensitive to anything that might put people at risk. However, he's old and dated. Young people today aren't as shocked by gays as the older generation.

I didn't know about the MLK thing though...hmmm, going to go look that up now and maybe conclude he's just a bigot.

It's the beginning of the end for American military effectiveness. Pretty soon we'll be as worthless as other world militaries that allow gays to serve openly..... like Israel.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Yeah, I have a sudden urge to listen to Public Enemy's "By the Time I Get to Arizona", then go take a dump on McCain's front step.

Which one?

Tanglebones wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Yeah, I have a sudden urge to listen to Public Enemy's "By the Time I Get to Arizona", then go take a dump on McCain's front step.

Which one?

I've got numerous cans of beans in the cupboard and I'm willing to travel, I'll hit them all.

Paleocon wrote:

edit: I just watched McCain's little speech. Wow. Whatever respect I ever had for him has just gone down the crapper. What an ass.

Yeah, really. Five years ago, McCain was the Republican I respected most and could easily see myself voting for. Now....

But he's the after-point here. The important point is it's about damn time.

This goes without saying, but if you hate yourself, check out the comments over at Yahoo.

Prederick wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

edit: I just watched McCain's little speech. Wow. Whatever respect I ever had for him has just gone down the crapper. What an ass.

Yeah, really. Five years ago, McCain was the Republican I respected most and could easily see myself voting for. Now....

But he's the after-point here. The important point is it's about damn time.

This goes without saying, but if you hate yourself, check out the comments over at Yahoo.

I checked out the Yahoo comments. It's them activist judges what turned over DADT! It's Congress' job, not activest judges! I guess we should get rid of Congress and let judges make the laws so it'll be easier for Obama to take ovar!

I'm off to boil my computer and maybe my eyes.

OG_slinger wrote:
Shoal07 wrote:

Oh, that's right, I forgot you just got back from a summit with Obama where he was hearing your opinion on his latest fiscal policy...

Shoal, the military conducted the largest and most comprehensive survey it had ever done on the issue of DATD. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors, and airman were asked to personally weigh in on a policy decision: whether or not gays should be able to serve openly.

So while Obama never asked me about fiscal policy it seems the brass certainly asked a lot of soldiers about military policy.

When was the last time you were asked to put your life on the line for fiscal policy?

Nomad wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:
Shoal07 wrote:

Oh, that's right, I forgot you just got back from a summit with Obama where he was hearing your opinion on his latest fiscal policy...

Shoal, the military conducted the largest and most comprehensive survey it had ever done on the issue of DATD. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors, and airman were asked to personally weigh in on a policy decision: whether or not gays should be able to serve openly.

So while Obama never asked me about fiscal policy it seems the brass certainly asked a lot of soldiers about military policy.

When was the last time you were asked to put your life on the line for fiscal policy?

So you're saying that gays in the military will cost people their lives?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Yeah, I have a sudden urge to listen to Public Enemy's "By the Time I Get to Arizona", then go take a dump on McCain's front step.

Don't forget to bring a hype man with a big clock around his neck. That way you can let McCain know what time it is.

OG_slinger wrote:
Nomad wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:
Shoal07 wrote:

Oh, that's right, I forgot you just got back from a summit with Obama where he was hearing your opinion on his latest fiscal policy...

Shoal, the military conducted the largest and most comprehensive survey it had ever done on the issue of DATD. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors, and airman were asked to personally weigh in on a policy decision: whether or not gays should be able to serve openly.

So while Obama never asked me about fiscal policy it seems the brass certainly asked a lot of soldiers about military policy.

When was the last time you were asked to put your life on the line for fiscal policy?

So you're saying that gays in the military will cost people their lives?

You were complaining that Obama never asked you about fiscal policy, while soldiers are asked for their input about military policy. Soldiers bravely die all the time as a result of current military policy, knowing full well they are putting themselves in harm's way. I find it hard to believe that you would compare your situation in relation to fiscal policy, to theirs with military policy. Whether or not you believe gays should openly serve in the military, your comparison seems flawed at best.