NFL 2011 Draft Thread

Kush15 wrote:

Loved the Prince Amukamara pick by the Giants, even though they probably should have went O-line at that point. But I have to scratch my head as to why they picked up a defensive tackle with the 2nd pick. Although it does improve the DT position, the Giants already incorporate their ends to jump to the middle through different defensive schemes, I really thought their O-line and LB core were more pressing issues.

The only thing I can say was that it was a value pick. Marvin Austin was expected to fight to be in the top half the first round before he got himself suspsended. He has the talent to potentially be a pro-bowl kind of guy. They must have thought that was too good to pass up.

Kush15 wrote:

Loved the Prince Amukamara pick by the Giants, even though they probably should have went O-line at that point.

I wouldn't use the word "should". You should never pass on a good player just to reach to fill a need.
Passing on Amukamara would have been a very dumb move.

But I have to scratch my head as to why they picked up a defensive tackle with the 2nd pick (...) I really thought their O-line and LB core were more pressing issues.

They didn't just pick up a defensive tackle. They decided to take a shot on a guy who has elite talent but whose NCAA suspension made him drop into round 2.

They took players, not positions. Filling needs is what you do in free agency.

Legion, am I crazy in saying that if Stafford plays 16 games this season, the Lions win 10 of them? I strongly feel this and get laughed at way too much. And I'm known as the "hater" amongst my friends.

Leroyog wrote:

Legion, am I crazy in saying that if Stafford plays 16 games this season, the Lions win 10 of them? I strongly feel this and get laughed at way too much. And I'm known as the "hater" amongst my friends. :P

There are two bigs "ifs" there--one, Stafford playing 16 games, which, considering his recent history, isn't exactly something I'd bet on, and two, Stafford actually being all that good when he plays. You still don't know enough about the guy to know whether he's that good; his skills so far have seemed to me to be "throw it at Megatron and hope for the best" (which works for every QB Detroit has started, really). I'm not sure why Stafford gives you loads of confidence; the guy just hasn't played much.

Detroit still has a questionable offensive line (which factors into Stafford's injury problems), a lack of a running game, and a lousy secondary. Yeah, the defensive line will be scary from the looks of it, but there's loads of other holes. They obviously have to play Green Bay twice, and the NFC North plays the NFC South, which is not an easy division. Ten games? Maybe. However, with as much as the offense relies on Calvin Johnson, if he gets injured, they're picking in the top five next year.

ESPN First Take this morning debated the Lions. I think they both went with 9-10 wins. Their main concern was like Dan said, the tough schedule.

Detroit is going to be fun to watch when they play a weak O-line but otherwise, um they're the Lions and they have a very tough schedule.

This year's draft grades are adorable. I am supposed to believe that the Bengals drafted amazingly(a team that only drafts a starter sometimes when they have a top 10 pick) while the Jaguars drafted poorly(a team that is consistently okay solely because they draft consistently well).

If you want to lose respect for a talking head, just go back a couple years and look at their draft grades. It seems to be a case of "I didn't study that guy so he sucks!" and "A lot of teams that passed on this guy told me he was amazing so way to go cellar dweller team for drafting him!"

I understand these talking heads aren't professional talent evaluators but it seems to always be a case of them liking whoever they studied the most and disliking those they didn't study.

As long as the Lions compete in games, I will be happy. This past season was a huge step in that direction. should have beat the Bears twice and beat the Packers(almost twice) Only got blown out 1-2 times. Heading in the right direction!

Elliottx wrote:

Detroit is going to be fun to watch when they play a weak O-line but otherwise, um they're the Lions and they have a very tough schedule.

This year's draft grades are adorable. I am supposed to believe that the Bengals drafted amazingly(a team that only drafts a starter sometimes when they have a top 10 pick) while the Jaguars drafted poorly(a team that is consistently okay solely because they draft consistently well).

If you want to lose respect for a talking head, just go back a couple years and look at their draft grades. It seems to be a case of "I didn't study that guy so he sucks!" and "A lot of teams that passed on this guy told me he was amazing so way to go cellar dweller team for drafting him!"

I understand these talking heads aren't professional talent evaluators but it seems to always be a case of them liking whoever they studied the most and disliking those they didn't study.

I have a few simple rules for evaluating the draft; if someone is drafted by Buffalo or Cincinnati, I assume they suck.

*Legion* wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

Loved the Prince Amukamara pick by the Giants, even though they probably should have went O-line at that point.

I wouldn't use the word "should". You should never pass on a good player just to reach to fill a need.
Passing on Amukamara would have been a very dumb move.

But I have to scratch my head as to why they picked up a defensive tackle with the 2nd pick (...) I really thought their O-line and LB core were more pressing issues.

They didn't just pick up a defensive tackle. They decided to take a shot on a guy who has elite talent but whose NCAA suspension made him drop into round 2.

They took players, not positions. Filling needs is what you do in free agency.

Don't get me wrong, the Prince pick was absolutely the pick to make. I'm actually a little happier with the Austin pick after reading up on him.

The problem with Free Agency is that it comes after the draft this year as opposed to before, which means even more uncertainty that the Giants will indeed completely fill their holes. I also like the fact the Giants drafted some players who will be able to strengthen their special teams, something that was very lacking last season.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I have a few simple rules for evaluating the draft; if someone is drafted by Buffalo or Cincinnati, I assume they suck.

That's not always true. But even if they're good when they get drafted, they get so bummed and depressed about having to play for Cincinnati they inevitably turn to crime and get suspended.

Leroyog wrote:

Legion, am I crazy in saying that if Stafford plays 16 games this season, the Lions win 10 of them? I strongly feel this and get laughed at way too much. And I'm known as the "hater" amongst my friends. :P

Let's talk Lions.

First, I want to talk about Nick Fairley. When the pick was made, the media people started going, "oh wow! Fairley and Suh lining up next to each other! Unstoppable!"

Hold your ponies.

Fairley, at only 290 lbs, is pretty strictly an "under" tackle (3-technique). Which is exactly what Suh is. Now, Suh has a bit more flexibility, and can play the nose (though he'll be about 20 pounds lighter than the ideal) and he can shift out to DE (though he's a bit bigger than the norm, but still quick). But his best fit is as an "under" tackle. If we compare them to Minnesota's "Williams Wall", both of these guys are Kevin Williamses.

So, what will happen? I just don't see the Lions having Suh at nose tackle full time. On passing downs, sure, go lighter inside and have two 1-gap penetrators on the line. But for base personnel, I'm not so sure the Lions can take their rotating nose tackles (Corey Williams and Sammie Hill) off the field and give up that kind of size. They will probably come up with some hybrid fronts to use here and there to get their best personnel on the field. And they will no doubt run a rotation to keep everyone fresh. I just don't think it's going to be a case of Fairley and Suh paired up as a 3-down base scheme.

At any rate, it's a good group of interior linemen. So, what is wrong with the Lions?

First, the offensive line needs replacement. Backus is old, Raiola is old, Cherilus hasn't been that great when not injured, and neither guard seems to be a keeper.

Second, the entire back side of the Lions defense besides Louis Delmas and DeAndre Levy could use upgrade. The linebacker position besides Levy is precariously thin.

10-6? Mmm, I don't know. I do believe in Stafford's skill beyond "throw it up to Megatron" - he's been very productive throwing to #2 receivers like Nate Burleson, who of course still benefit from Megatron's presence on the other side, but regardless, he can hit other targets. But I don't see how the line is going to do a better job protecting Stafford this year without any better personnel.

Kush15 wrote:

The problem with Free Agency is that it comes after the draft this year as opposed to before

Problem? Nah. Greatest thing ever. It means you get to draft who falls to you and worry about patching holes later, instead of signing a free agent in March and then kicking yourself when a good prospect who plays the same position falls to you in April.

And on the flip side, teams that you might have been fighting against for free agents in March may now be out of the running because they drafted guys that filled those needs. There will be less competition for, say, offensive lineman, after 13 of them were taken in the first 2 rounds. In the past, some of those teams may have competed against each other for free agents already, not knowing what the draft held (the Colts, for example, would never have expected Anthony Castonzo to slide to them).

I really, really hope the NFL makes it work this way going forward. I've seen it mentioned as a possibility. It's more efficient.

I agree, I was thinking just today that draft before agency was better. Now let's end this stupid lockout and start the agency process, and play some stinking football.

Not only are Cam Newton and Jimmy Clausen fighting for the QB job, they're also fighting for a jersey number.

Let the douche-off begin!

I really hope Clausen steps it up and outperforms Newton in training camp.

I hope Tony Pike steps it up and outperforms them BOTH!

Did Matt Moore die? Last I remember he was better then Clausen but he got injured so douche-face stepped up. If Moore is healthy I'm pretty sure he'd still be on the top of the depth chart of suck.

Elliottx wrote:

Did Matt Moore die? Last I remember he was better then Clausen but he got injured so douche-face stepped up. If Moore is healthy I'm pretty sure he'd still be on the top of the depth chart of suck.

Matt Moore was terrible last year too.

Edit: He had one good game. Oh, and he's a free agent. Restricted, I think.

Enix wrote:

The best Matt Moore could hope for is No. 3 on the depth chart. Speculation is he'll leave for free agency, if/when it ever occurs.

I disappointed that you all forget poor neglected Armanti Edwards, the I-AA stud who was the second of three QBs the Panthers picked last year. He's the reason that Carolina went more than 24 hours between picks last week.

That's right: Carolina has drafted four QBs in the past two years. I never picked that many when I played fantasy football.

So, I want to see a race to see which one is the fastest QB on their roster.

Elliottx wrote:

Did Matt Moore die? Last I remember he was better then Clausen but he got injured so douche-face stepped up. If Moore is healthy I'm pretty sure he'd still be on the top of the depth chart of suck.

Moore doesn't have much potential. Clausen has the "starter tools" which is why many thought he'd go in round 1 last year.

I disappointed that you all forget poor neglected Armanti Edwards

I didn't forget. I remembered that he was turned into a wide receiver and isn't (to my knowledge) taking any reps at all at quarterback. As far as I see, he's no more a quarterback than Matt Jones or Antwaan Randle-El.

Leroyog wrote:

I hope Tony Pike steps it up and outperforms them BOTH!

I liked Tony Pike coming into the draft last year. I don't know why he slid so far.

I heard one second-level football media guy say that his impression of Pike at the Senior Bowl was that Pike just wasn't committed to football. But I have not been able to find that suggested anywhere else.

It is interesting that when everyone got injured, the Panthers opted to sign and start Brian St. Pierre rather than put Pike on the field. I'd really love to hear a coach spill the beans on Pike.

I thought he was pretty damn good at Cincy and wondered why the Panthers weren't showing him any love last year too.

Leroyog wrote:

I thought he was pretty damn good at Cincy and wondered why the Panthers weren't showing him any love last year too.

Well, when the better alternative to you is Brian St. Pierre, who hadn't played in several years, I believe the answer to your question must be "Because Tony Pike really, really sucked."

The best Matt Moore could hope for is No. 3 on the depth chart. Speculation is he'll leave for free agency, if/when it ever occurs.

I'm disappointed that you all forget poor neglected Armanti Edwards, the I-AA stud who was the second of three QBs the Panthers picked last year. He's the reason that Carolina went more than 24 hours between picks last week.

That's right: Carolina has drafted four QBs in the past two years. I never picked that many when I played fantasy football.

[size=10]edited for typo[/size]

*Legion* wrote:

As far as I see, he's no more a wide receiver than Rex Ryan or MilkmanDanimal

FTFY.

Edwards has been a disaster so far. (More on that in a minute.) He couldn't field punts to save his life, and the O-coordinator (now fired) had no idea what to do with a Wildcat. Edwards was a bad fit last season. Not sure what Rivera and Chud have in mind, but the word is that the Carolina O should be a lot more aggressive this season.

Pike's situation was odd. Cincy is on a quarter system that meant, because of some NFL-NCAA deal, he couldn't take part in any of the spring workouts. He didn't play in a pro style offense in college. And because he was waaaay down the depth chart (anyone remember Hunter Cantwell? He was the Panthers' No. 3 a year ago), he probably didn't get many snaps during training camp. Pike started out behind and simply never caught up.

Another scenario (and this applies to Edwards too): John Fox was so pissed at management that he wasn't going to start all those kids -- Pike and Edwards -- that his bosses drafted for him.

All that said, Pike could end up being the No. 3 QB for Carolina this year if the Panthers don't bring in a vet while Newton gets prepped. Moore's probably gone, and I think Brian St. Pierre's arm is still sore from his start last season.

I'm intrigued by Pike, too. I saw a few Cincy games on TV a couple of years ago and thought that he might make a serviceable pro if he bulked up a bit and was able to hang onto a roster.

When are Atlanta and New Orleans legally required to draft a godawfully bad player in the second round out of Appalachian State? Tampa had theirs with Dexter Jackson (no, not the safety, the alleged receiver) a few years ago, and he barely got on the field for one year before getting cut. I think that was 2007, when I wanted Tampa to draft Brian Brohm with that pick instead. Not that that would have been much better . . .

Aaaargh, the appeals court has granted a stay, the lockout is back in effect...

Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

As far as I see, he's no more a wide receiver than Rex Ryan or MilkmanDanimal

FTFY.

My scouting department insists that MilkmanDanimal has soft hands.

His 40 time, though...

Very interesting stuff on Edwards and Pike. Definitely keep us up to date on Pike's development when football starts again.

Chris Simms said he wasn't smoking the pot that was filling his car when he was pulled over.

IMAGE(http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/c-simmsmugshot.jpg?w=232)

Uh huh...

I want to know how much money he's giving his friend.