Arkane's Dishonored

ibdoomed wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:
1Dgaf wrote:
Malor wrote:

I wish they wouldn't do that. Just do one goddamn version for every retailer.

Youre going to wait for the all-in-one edition too, eh? Good choice.

I've been on this boycott too but with everything that's happened recently, I'm really worried that bethesda isn't going to survive long enough to merge it all if it's not already underway. It's going to be a terrible day when they fold, I've been a huge fan for a long time.

What? Skyrim sold more than 3.4 million copies in the first two days; total sales to date have netted Bethesda $640 million (http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim...). The game's development budget was $85 million; even assuming that every member of the team made $100k/year for 3 years, they still ended up with more than $500m in pure profit.

I suspect they're fine.

Are you sure that didn't all go to the publisher? Remember 38Studios? If they made even a 10th of that, why would they need kickstarter? Successful companies don't beg for money. Combine that with review embargo not lifting until it's too late to cancel pre-orders and the pre-order fiasco... You can see how must of us think they're in financial pain.

pre order fiasco?

While people dont like the split up of preorder bonuses it's definitely not the first or i'm sure the last time this has happened. Definitely far from being a fiasco.

Even the embargo timing isnt anything new. Since Enemy Territory most companies wait until after preorder to lift embargos.

ibdoomed wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:
1Dgaf wrote:
Malor wrote:

I wish they wouldn't do that. Just do one goddamn version for every retailer.

Youre going to wait for the all-in-one edition too, eh? Good choice.

I've been on this boycott too but with everything that's happened recently, I'm really worried that bethesda isn't going to survive long enough to merge it all if it's not already underway. It's going to be a terrible day when they fold, I've been a huge fan for a long time.

What? Skyrim sold more than 3.4 million copies in the first two days; total sales to date have netted Bethesda $640 million (http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim...). The game's development budget was $85 million; even assuming that every member of the team made $100k/year for 3 years, they still ended up with more than $500m in pure profit.

I suspect they're fine.

Are you sure that didn't all go to the publisher? Remember 38Studios? If they made even a 10th of that, why would they need kickstarter? Successful companies don't beg for money. Combine that with review embargo not lifting until it's too late to cancel pre-orders and the pre-order fiasco... You can see how must of us think they're in financial pain.

Bethesda's publisher is ZeniMax; given their studio lineup (including iD, Arkane, and Beth), the amount of money those lineups brings in, and the portfolio's overall worth, I can't see any financial reason why ZM would let Beth fall over.

Also: what Bethesda kickstarter?

TheHipGamer wrote:

Also: what Bethesda kickstarter?

Maybe he's thinking of the Obsidian kickstarter and got it confused with Bethesda.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:

Also: what Bethesda kickstarter?

Maybe he's thinking of the Obsidian kickstarter and got it confused with Bethesda.

Oh that's it! I got them mixed up. I always mixup bethesda, bioware and obsidian.

My bad for not keeping track of penniless kickstarter beggers.

Nevermind. Good to know bethesda is doing fine (forgot they did skyrim too).

ibdoomed wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:

Also: what Bethesda kickstarter?

Maybe he's thinking of the Obsidian kickstarter and got it confused with Bethesda.

Oh that's it! I got them mixed up. I always mixup bethesda, bioware and obsidian.

My bad for not keeping track of penniless kickstarter beggers.

Nevermind. Good to know bethesda is doing fine (forgot they did skyrim too).

Bioware I can agree with in terms of financial distress. SWTOR falling over is going to hurt them, and with senior leadership departing, I imagine they are in a strange place culturally, as well. EA is no moon no ZeniMax, and while I expect that the name will live on, the company as we know it may well disappear. That said, I think Bioware lost their mojo, and I'll not be too heartbroken over it.

Obsidian is a different story. They're much smaller, still independent, and I have absolutely no sense of them being in financial peril. Kickstarter isn't begging so much as it is a way to establish a rabid base for a game early into its development lifecycle, and the funding can prove viability to a potential publisher.

Scratched wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:

Obsidian is a different story. They're much smaller, still independent, and I have absolutely no sense of them being in financial peril.

Independence only goes so far. They rely on contracts, and because MS cancelled them doing a next-gen game they had a bunch of lay-offs (affecting the South Park game) in March. They can't entirely do whatever they want, as they are mercenaries to whoever will give them money, otherwise the company starves.

True. However (sorry, Arkane thread!), they also have the freedom to raise $2.5m on Kickstarter to fund a game, and can shop that IP around as they wish.

TheHipGamer wrote:

Obsidian is a different story. They're much smaller, still independent, and I have absolutely no sense of them being in financial peril.

Independence only goes so far. They rely on contracts, and because MS cancelled them doing a next-gen game they had a bunch of lay-offs (affecting the South Park game) in March. They can't entirely do whatever they want, as they are mercenaries to whoever will give them money, otherwise the company starves.

At the very least, the management of Obsidian seems willing to do the steps necessary to preserve the company, although obviously at the expense of developers they hired, rather than staying 'fat' and going to the wall and everyone's out of a job.

ibdoomed wrote:

Nevermind. Good to know bethesda is doing fine (forgot they did skyrim too).

Dude, that's hilarious

Hand over your gamer card!

I kid. Still though.

Running Man wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

Nevermind. Good to know bethesda is doing fine (forgot they did skyrim too).

Dude, that's hilarious

Hand over your gamer card!

I kid. Still though.

Yeah yeah, I get that all the time. Just because I don't buy into hype and mainstream hippiness... I get crap for never playing halo and total fortress 2 and sinking 400 hours into dredmor instead.

Edit: Just wanted to add since I mixed up devs, I'll pre-order this once I figure out who's pre-order bonus is absolutely nothing to keep from influencing this vendor crap.

I had a brief moment of responsibility during work the other day. I should pass on this until a sale. Sure, it's one my top 5 wanted games this year, but it's coming out alongside XCOM, and other big titles pre and post release. It was very rational, and I felt a weight lifted from me.

Then I came in here and Malor commented that the game was Steamworks, and I remembered that GMG has a 25% code right now (when don't they?). So, of course I have to get it. Besides, the two leads made some of my favorite games, Deus Ex and Dark Messiah (yes, really). Oh, then of course there's been a similar type of positive buzz around it that XCOM is getting. How could I pass this up?

Silly me.

ibdoomed wrote:

I've been a huge fan for a long time

ibdoomed wrote:

Nevermind. Good to know bethesda is doing fine (forgot they did skyrim too).

Clearly

Phades wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

I've been a huge fan for a long time

ibdoomed wrote:

Nevermind. Good to know bethesda is doing fine (forgot they did skyrim too).

Clearly ;)

I'm going to assume that the winky means you are not trying to be a pundit and quote people out of context to make them look like idiots. I did say that I got them mixed up, probably because the lines blurred with FONV.

Probably gonna pick this up on 360. At least that way of I hate it I can resell and get some of my money back.

Random comment from Giant Bomb's Ryand Davis during a podcast he was on and he stated that he didn't like Dishonored and "doesn't see it". It was very throw away and the topic was about pre-ordering. Take that as you want. Starts at about 46:00 mark and lasts for about 30 seconds. He doesn't elaborate at all.

So...haven't really paid attention to this game until I saw some gameplay footage and realized that this is the true Thief 3.

This truly looks like the spiritual successor to the Thief games. I like Thief 3 but something was lost between 2 and 3 and while Thief 3 had its bright spots it just didn't get to me like the older games had.

I went from "meh, I've heard of that" to "omg can't wait for XMAS Steam certificates!".

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but there is something in the feel of this game that just screams LOOKING GLASS AWESOMENESS HERE to me.

Is Warren SPector involved in this at all?

TheArtOfScience wrote:

Is Warren SPector involved in this at all?

Nope. These guys did do the last great dungeon crawl game, though.

Vector wrote:

Random comment from Giant Bomb's Ryand Davis during a podcast he was on and he stated that he didn't like Dishonored and "doesn't see it". It was very throw away and the topic was about pre-ordering. Take that as you want. Starts at about 46:00 mark and lasts for about 30 seconds. He doesn't elaborate at all.

Prediction time!

I'd imagine you'll see a lot of people (like Ryan Davis) who don't click with the game at all, and I also suspect that the critical response will be less glowing than all the "ZOMG GOTY WE CAN TELL FROM A DEMO" articles I've seen. The messiness and niche aspects of this genre just aren't going to appeal to a lot gamers and reviewers. Complaints about the AI, which has an immense disadvantage considering all the things it needs to do, will abound.

That said, I also think the chances of me not loving it regardless are floating at around zero, so there's that.

(p.s. I can't wait be totally wrong on Tuesday, when the game will be given three dozen honorary Greatest Game of All Time Awards, bring peace to the Middle East, and locates the body of Jimmy Hoffa)

Bottle wrote:

I'd imagine you'll see a lot of people (like Ryan Davis) who don't click with the game at all, and I also suspect that the critical response will be less glowing than all the "ZOMG GOTY WE CAN TELL FROM A DEMO" articles I've seen. The messiness and niche aspects of this genre just aren't going to appeal to a lot gamers and reviewers. Complaints about the AI, which has an immense disadvantage considering all the things it needs to do, will abound.

That's along the lines I'm thinking really. Although they strive for great things, Arkane and Harvey Smith have a sketchy history in the things they produce, mix that together with Bethesda/Zenimax's recent questionable QA of their own games and games published under their label, leaves me thinking "hope for the best, wait for the GOTY edition" (and there's meant to be expansion DLC coming).

Don't get me wrong, Dishonored is the kind of game I should like, but for me there's just too many question marks hanging over it, which admittedly will be answered within the next week or so. Maybe it'll work like a well oiled machine with all the component parts coming together well, but throwing all those moving parts in together also has the possibility to be a mess.

Huh! I'm a pre-order purchaser because I explicitly trust the Arkane team. While not every effort is perfect, they offer experiences that are unique, and that's worth a million flawless clones of games I've already beaten. I would say that taste is a personal thing, but this is the Internet, so you're clearly just all wrong.

Dishonored is precisely the game I want to play - which is why I'll rent it. And I want to see if I can conjure rats, use gust, slow time and then possess a rat and go flyyyiiiiiing across the screen.

And I don't agree that Ryan Davisnand giant bomb won't click with the game for any reasons due to not getting it. The giant bomb guys are quite canny; that comment of his intriguing.

I just don't have the time for Dishonored yet, or at least the time I'd want for a proper session with a stealth game. I haven't even finished Mark of the Ninja yet, what with this baby needing to be "fed" and "kept alive". Kitchen's right over there! I tell her, but she just lies there, drooling. Lazy!

But it's on the Christmas wish list, so if it falls flat on opening day, blame me too.

TheHipGamer wrote:

Huh! I'm a pre-order purchaser because I explicitly trust the Arkane team. While not every effort is perfect, they offer experiences that are unique, and that's worth a million flawless clones of games I've already beaten.

Just to clarify, the messiness is pretty much a non-issue for me personally as well. I really dig Arkane games for what they are, but what they are ain't for everyone.

1Dgaf wrote:

And I don't agree that Ryan Davisnand giant bomb won't click with the game for any reasons due to not getting it. The giant bomb guys are quite canny; that comment of his intriguing.

I didn't mean to imply that the shallow peons of the masses won't be able to grasp the nuanced brilliance of the immersive sim genre, just that it's not a lot of people's bag. For example, Tom Chick made a lot of valid points as to why Deus Ex was below average back in the day, but none of the things he mentioned as flaws were things that I'd really noticed or cared about.

Bottle wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:

Huh! I'm a pre-order purchaser because I explicitly trust the Arkane team. While not every effort is perfect, they offer experiences that are unique, and that's worth a million flawless clones of games I've already beaten.

Just to clarify, the messiness is pretty much a non-issue for me personally as well. I really dig Arkane games for what they are, but what they are ain't for everyone.

1Dgaf wrote:

And I don't agree that Ryan Davisnand giant bomb won't click with the game for any reasons due to not getting it. The giant bomb guys are quite canny; that comment of his intriguing.

I didn't mean to imply that the shallow peons of the masses won't be able to grasp the nuanced brilliance of the immersive sim genre, just that it's not a lot of people's bag. For example, Tom Chick made a lot of valid points as to why Deus Ex was below average back in the day, but none of the things he mentioned as flaws were things that I'd really noticed or cared about.

I think it's more that Ryan Davis actually said it might just be him that doesn't get it. Of the Giant Bomb crew he tends to be the Everyman. Doesn't have any weird games he loves and tends to be able to accept a game's flaws while still enjoying it. For Ryan Davis to not like a game is a pretty big sign, to me, that it won't match up with my tastes.

Well, I'm giving them the shot, as much as anything, because of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic; despite the puerile plot, the levels, especially the later ones, were awesome, some of the best in any FPS, ever. I don't know if they still have mostly the same team working, or if it's all new people, but I'm willing to give them the shot.

Do we know if Mr. Davis liked Thief? Is he an old codger like us? I don't listen to their podcast, so if it's a first person sneaker, as it appears to be, maybe he just doesn't know what to expect?

Or, of course, maybe the game just sucks.

I've liked everything I've seen about the game except for the actual gameplay footage. The atmosphere, the trailers, everything looks great, except for the actual "I'm playing" footage; I keep expecting the hero to spout one-liners as he goes about his grisly business.

I wonder how many non-combat-oriented missions there will be? I hope at least a few; looks like an interesting world to wander around in.
It could be I've just checked out the wrong previews.

For games that offer extensive stealth options, I universally take that route. I'm making an exception this time. I hope the combat is satisfying, because no one who sees me will live to tell the tale. Changing things up is one explanation, but I really don't want to be playing this and XCOM at the same time, playing about the same way. I don't see my sanity coming away intact if I play two stealthy, tactical games together.

Puce Moose wrote:

I've liked everything I've seen about the game except for the actual gameplay footage. The atmosphere, the trailers, everything looks great, except for the actual "I'm playing" footage; I keep expecting the hero to spout one-liners as he goes about his grisly business.

I wonder how many non-combat-oriented missions there will be? I hope at least a few; looks like an interesting world to wander around in.
It could be I've just checked out the wrong previews.

Well apparently (from what few previews I've dared skim) you're supposed to be able to get through the game without killing a single person (even the main assassination targets - who you can take down by more abstract means, like framing them for a crime instead), which sounds promising - I hope that's still the case.

The atmosphere, the trailers, everything looks great, except for the actual "I'm playing" footage; I keep expecting the hero to spout one-liners as he goes about his grisly business.

Are you thinking that it needs them? I could read that either that you want quips, or that the fact that you want one-liners is itself the problem.

I hope that's still the case.

Yeah, me too. I like sneak games where you have the option of not killing people. That was one of the things that frustrated me a little about Deus Ex 3 .... you had to kill to complete that game.

Oh, and:

I don't see my sanity coming away intact if I play two stealthy, tactical games together.

Wait. XCOM? Sneaky? I don't think there's any sneaking, it's just tactical positioning.

edit: removed a superfluous word, sorry.

Malor wrote:

Wait. XCOM? Sneaky? I don't think there's any sneaking, it's just tactical positioning.

I don't want the enemy to know my position. I consider that a big part of stealth. Thought that was obvious.

But I don't think you can prevent the enemy from knowing your position, can you? Once they're alerted, I think they know exactly where everyone is?

I don't think XCOM is a sneaky game, although I could be misinterpreting what I'm seeing.