Arkane's Dishonored

This game is so weird. I'm an assassin, but most of the achievements and rewards encourage you not to kill (like a thief), but the game hands me deadly weapons left and right. I was passing up bullets, grenades and bolts because I was full up.

I think that's a part of its appeal; it gives you the tools/wherewithal to be an absolute BOSS; and then dares you not to be one.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
- Abraham Lincoln*

*false attribution?, I didn't do any research, this could be a misappropriated quote. Pretty cool though!

[quote=Aristophan]

Draco wrote:

I missed nearly half the gold in the opening prison mission? I was at 540/1000? I can't imagine where all that other gold is hiding.
/quote]

Gold is not only coins. You can pick up many objects (wire, maps, paintings) that immediatly give you gold. An item you can throw has a different icon than an item you will pick up for money.

I wonder if it counts money you would loot from enemies.

Draco wrote:

Somehow I missed nearly half the gold in the opening prison mission? I was at 540/1000? I can't imagine where all that other gold is hiding.

Gold is not only coins. You can pick up many objects (wire, maps, paintings) that immediatly give you gold. An item you can throw has a different icon than an item you will pick up for money.

Draco wrote:

Somehow I missed nearly half the gold in the opening prison mission? I was at 540/1000?

I found 750, and thought I had been very thorough in exploring everything. I also missed Ghost on that mission by a hair, not that I mind replaying it.

A thought on the Heart, probably fairly spoilery:

Spoiler:

I think it must be the Queen.

There is a free Corvo mask for your avatar on offer on XBL. The number is limited to something like 10,000 (I only glimpsed the number in my haste!)

IHateDRM wrote:

Just beat the game, and while I haven't yet gathered my thoughts on the game as a whole, but before I get around to that I thought I'd leave a quick warning here. Its only a spoiler if you're the type who refuses to look at achievement list before you play the game. (That and I just learned how to use spoiler tags and wanted to try it out. :P)

Spoiler:

I finished the game on PC without killing anyone but I didn't get the clean hands achievement. I did go on a few killing sprees but I always loaded a save before continuing past that point, but It doesn't seemed to have mattered so if you want that achievement you may want to wait for a patch.

That's a worth while warning. I don't think it's a spoiler at all and it's going to save a ton of wasted effort.

Higgledy wrote:
IHateDRM wrote:

Just beat the game, and while I haven't yet gathered my thoughts on the game as a whole, but before I get around to that I thought I'd leave a quick warning here. Its only a spoiler if you're the type who refuses to look at achievement list before you play the game. (That and I just learned how to use spoiler tags and wanted to try it out. :P)

Spoiler:

I finished the game on PC without killing anyone but I didn't get the clean hands achievement. I did go on a few killing sprees but I always loaded a save before continuing past that point, but It doesn't seemed to have mattered so if you want that achievement you may want to wait for a patch.

That's a worth while warning. I don't think it's a spoiler at all and it's going to save a ton of wasted effort.

Thanks! I know some people are real paranoid about that sort of thing so I decided to be safe and mark it as a spoiler. Although you're probably right given how much time it could save someone I think I'll take out the spoiler tag.

Just beat the game, and while I haven't yet gathered my thoughts on the game as a whole, but before I get around to that I thought I'd leave a quick warning here. Its only a spoiler if you're the type who refuses to look at achievement lists before you play the game.

I finished the game on PC without killing anyone but I didn't get the clean hands achievement. I did go on a few killing sprees but I always loaded a save before continuing past that point, but It doesn't seemed to have mattered so if you want that achievement you may want to wait for a patch.

EDIT: see my post below for details.

How come in past four days XCOM thread gained 21 pages and this one only 4? Is Dishonored one of those games everyone is enjoying, but have no reason to discuss, or maybe it's not as good as advertised?

I can chat about XCOM at length without spoiling the game. The same is not true of Dishonored.

Both are great.

I think this is a much, much more intense experience. At least in the short run, I'd call it WAY better. But, obviously, I'm only going to play through it a couple of times, and X-Com might potentially last awhile.

I'll add my standing ovation for this game. I'm not far in, but so far it's proving to be the fantastic game I hardly dared to hope it might be.

True, it's not Thief, but nothing ever will be. I had to adjust my expectations of how the stealth gameplay worked, and am still figuring out the nuances, but it's deeply satisfying. Like others have suggested, I turned off most of the handholding UI, and am having no problems finding my way. The interactive items and lootables in a room stand out nicely without sporting flashing gamey icons. (anybody else remember the uproar in the Thief fan community about the overdone "Loot Glimmer" when Deadly Shadows came out? )

As an exploration junkie, there is plenty of lovingly crafted detail in the nooks and crannies of this world. Even though they are not geographically vast, the levels seem to be full of vast possibilities. The missions feel open in a way Deus Ex: HR didn't. I don't get the sense that my "options" for completing an objective are limited to 3 clearly delineated "corridors" the designers laid out with glowing signposts (oh look - A) ventilation duct, B) hackable security door, and C) guardpost to blast through...)

I hope a game like this can do well in today's marketplace, but I've noticed the Steam forums are already full of whiners who are complaining because they finished the game in 5 hours. I suspect they barrelled through guns ablazing, and didn't take the time to explore the shadows, and stop and smell the decaying roses.

Malor wrote:

A thought on the Heart, probably fairly spoilery:

Spoiler:

I think it must be the Queen.

oooh, good one! The heart spirit certainly knows alot about every area you're in and that would make sense.

Aristophan wrote:

Gold is not only coins. You can pick up many objects (wire, maps, paintings) that immediatly give you gold. An item you can throw has a different icon than an item you will pick up for money.

Right, I knew that, but I thought I got everything. Most small things like copper wire are only worth 20 gold, so I am mystyfied how I missed 500 worth of gold. I did sneak past some guards, so maybe I would've been able to pick pocket them?

chaosmos wrote:

Anybody else remember the uproar in the Thief fan community about the overdone "Loot Glimmer" when Deadly Shadows came out?

I liked the loot glimmer!

chaosmos wrote:

I hope a game like this can do well in today's marketplace, but I've noticed the Steam forums are already full of whiners who are complaining because they finished the game in 5 hours. I suspect they barrelled through guns ablazing, and didn't take the time to explore the shadows, and stop and smell the decaying roses.

5 hours?! That seems impossible to me. I spent 3-4 hours just in the first "real mission" alone, between the main quest and the two big side quests.

Does anyone know if you do a new game plus, do you keep your powers? I love having the Dark Sight II power early to see all the items. It let me catch a grenade locatio that I never would have spotted on my own (it was partially clipped under a wall graphic).

Had a cool moment in the Distillery (this is very early on so no spoilers). I hid a guy's unconcious body under the stairs in the manager's office. Another guy walked down, and I guess heard him snoring? He said, "What? Are you sleeping on the job again?!" Pretty funny and I had to move him somewhere else.

I was surprised to run into regular folk who are not hostile to me. I assumed everyeone would be hostile to me, what with the creepy mask and all, but no. They're just, "Hey, how's it goin'?" "Oh fine, thanks." I say. "If you'll excuse me, I have to go spill the blood of the self righteous."

IHateDRM wrote:

I finished the game on PC without killing anyone but I didn't get the clean hands achievement. I did go on a few killing sprees but I always loaded a save before continuing past that point, but It doesn't seemed to have mattered so if you want that achievement you may want to wait for a patch.

Did you allow your sleeping victims to be potentially discovered by a pack of rats? I've read that unfortunately counts as your kill. And I guess it should, seeing as you basically leave this person to be eaten.

Higgledy wrote:

There is a free Corvo mask for your avatar on offer on XBL. The number is limited to something like 10,000 (I only glimpsed the number in my haste!)

Did some digging around, and looks like this might be a UK/EU only promotion. And it looks like it's only accessible from the Dashboard, not the website.

This is a GREAT game. I think it's much better than Human Revolution, which I also really enjoyed. It's sort of Steampunk Bioshock, as opposed to Art Deco Bioshock. It even has voice recordings, although very few. Well, as others have said, there's more to it than that -- the game has the feel of Bioshock, in terms of how things move and the overall graphic quality, most of the stealth of Thief, and a good bit of the level complexity of Deus Ex.

The Heart is way fun to snoop on people with. You can learn a great deal about many of the characters that way. I think the Heart is probably my favorite character so far, actually. So sad.

The stealth system in this game makes more sense to me than Thief's. This is much closer to being realistic, although the guards are still exceptionally stupid. In Thief, Garrett was ridiculously stealthy, able to stay hidden when people actually physically bumped into him, if the shadows were deep enough. He wasn't just invisible, it was like he was entirely absent from the brains of people looking right at him. You can call it magic, and it works, but it doesn't make any sense whatsoever in the real world.

In this one, you have to very carefully track where enemies are looking. Their vision, at least in Normal mode, isn't as far as a real person's would be, but within their limited range, they see about what real people would. (I assume harder difficulties have longer spot ranges.) The major exception is peeking around a corner; if you use a lean, it doesn't seem to 'count' for spotting, even when it's kind of ludicrous that they wouldn't see you. And footstep noise doesn't seem to matter much; that could have been more interesting.

Basically, Garrett had picklocks and superb stealth, but couldn't fight. Corvo can fight like a demon, but can't pick a lock, and doesn't sneak all that well. In D&D terms, he's an assassin.

I don't think there is an ngp. You don't get to replay with any powers you fancy.

However I've not replayed my rental copy.

Edit

When I thought it had a ngp, before release, I'd thought about writing the powers on a deck of cards and using those to determine what powers I had. Either for the entire level, or the next power I could use. (so I'd draw x cards and use them, or I'd draw a blink, then rats etc)

And I thought that would make an ngp more interesting, since I'd always have an element ofnrandomness.

Spoiler:

The heart makes me want to kill people that are on my side....

Hyetal wrote:
IHateDRM wrote:

I finished the game on PC without killing anyone but I didn't get the clean hands achievement. I did go on a few killing sprees but I always loaded a save before continuing past that point, but It doesn't seemed to have mattered so if you want that achievement you may want to wait for a patch.

Did you allow your sleeping victims to be potentially discovered by a pack of rats? I've read that unfortunately counts as your kill. And I guess it should, seeing as you basically leave this person to be eaten.

Is this only if rats are obviously nearby? Like if I knock someone out and leave them in a corner will they inevitably get eaten by a pack or rats?

Also I can't keep thinking of this whenever that word is mentioned.

IMAGE(http://theratpack.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/rp-carnegie-wjanm.jpg?w=655)

Malor wrote:

The major exception is peeking around a corner; if you use a lean, it doesn't seem to 'count' for spotting, even when it's kind of ludicrous that they wouldn't see you.

I actually appreciate this. So many games have had leaning, but with no real discernible difference from strafing out and back. I think leaning should have an advantage to leaving cover. It's very gamey in this sense, but I like that I am able to hide and then immediately plot where I am going to blink to next instead of staring at a bland texture while I wait an eternity for a guard to walk by me. It is much quicker traversal here than a traditional sneaker.

PaladinTom wrote:
Malor wrote:

The major exception is peeking around a corner; if you use a lean, it doesn't seem to 'count' for spotting, even when it's kind of ludicrous that they wouldn't see you.

I actually appreciate this. So many games have had leaning, but with no real discernible difference from strafing out and back. I think leaning should have an advantage to leaving cover. It's very gamey in this sense, but I like that I am able to hide and then immediately plot where I am going to blink to next instead of staring at a bland texture while I wait an eternity for a guard to walk by me.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I passed my little brother my copy of Deus Ex: HR last year and he hated it for the first few hours. I asked him why and got the impression that the "gamey" nature of it bothered him. I explained to him that he should roll his mindset back a decade. That Deus Ex: HR was a "video game" in the purest sense. Stuff happened that made no logical sense, but made 100% video game sense.

Since playing that game I've found it quite enjoyable to play games that eschew 100% realism and immersion in favor of being a good video game.

Someone said something about this upthread, but there have multiple times when I was really thinking Corvo should be wisecracking, like Garrett did.

"So, this is the Lost City."

(pause)

"It ain't lost no more!"

Malor wrote:

The Heart is way fun to snoop on people with. You can learn a great deal about many of the characters that way. I think the Heart is probably my favorite character so far, actually. So sad.

I'm doing about a 50/50 run of lethal/non-lethal kills. Unless i'm surprised who i kill is determined by the story the heart tells me. Some guys are just doing their job and trying to get by while other are truly bastards.

And how about guards calling each other "choffer" instead of Thief's "taffer." Or is this some actual slang I'm unaware of?

ranalin wrote:
Malor wrote:

The Heart is way fun to snoop on people with. You can learn a great deal about many of the characters that way. I think the Heart is probably my favorite character so far, actually. So sad.

I'm doing about a 50/50 run of lethal/non-lethal kills. Unless i'm surprised who i kill is determined by the story the heart tells me. Some guys are just doing their job and trying to get by while other are truly bastards.

See, I'm doing more or less the same thing, and the longer I play the more I realize there is a fundamental difference separating Dishonored from other beloved, similar games like Deus Ex: HR and Splinter Cell: Conviction: it's actually a stealth/action game. I can transition between stealth and combat on the fly, and I don't feel penalized for getting spotted or having to kill a guard; it feels far more dynamic and fluid, which means (at least in my case) WAY fewer reloads. I'm much more likely to simply take whatever outcome I earn (unless I die), rather than reload a half dozen times to get some extra bonus XP for not getting spotted or killing anyone (I'm looking at you, Deus Ex).

So, yeah, I'm really enjoying this one.

An hour or so in - frickin' loving it so far.

I have one problem though - whenever I want to drop an unconcious guard I tend to accidentally hit the right mouse button instead of the F key

...I blame Thief for this

DSGamer wrote:

Is this only if rats are obviously nearby? Like if I knock someone out and leave them in a corner will they inevitably get eaten by a pack or rats?

I'm pretty sure it's only if they're nearby. Leaving the body somewhere elevated should keep them safe, I think.

Draco wrote:
Malor wrote:

A thought on the Heart, probably fairly spoilery:

Spoiler:

I think it must be the Queen.

oooh, good one! The heart spirit certainly knows alot about every area you're in and that would make sense.

I had this same thought last night when I was having the heart recite the backgrounds of everyone at the Hounds Pub. I think the heart is going to be my most-used item by far.

I've also been reading every single book/note I find, and I highly recommend doing the same. The background info on whaling is particularly well written, to the point that I was so disgusted I couldn't eat dinner last night. A game has never done that to me before.

Hyetal wrote:
IHateDRM wrote:

I finished the game on PC without killing anyone but I didn't get the clean hands achievement. I did go on a few killing sprees but I always loaded a save before continuing past that point, but It doesn't seemed to have mattered so if you want that achievement you may want to wait for a patch.

Did you allow your sleeping victims to be potentially discovered by a pack of rats? I've read that unfortunately counts as your kill. And I guess it should, seeing as you basically leave this person to be eaten.

I don't know for sure but at the end of every mission I had the check box that said I hadn't killed anyone, and while it makes sense that it would count as a kill, it should also count for the didn't kill anyone check box. So for now I can only assume it's some kind of bug.

But honestly I'm kind of glad I have an excuse to play through the game again anyways.