Oh, and if you've never read it make sure to check out Fevre Dream. I just got done reading it and really enjoyed it. I was worried it was going to be cliche but this book is definately a GRRM book. Wonderful characterization and fearless plotting.
I enjoyed Fevre Dream also. The chapter in which you get a deep look into the psychology/background of a vampire was wicked cool (to me). So utterly alien. I too was afraid of cliche, but GRRM made it his own and I enjoyed it immensely.
I have to up the props on Fevre dream. It was awesome.
I am almost finished the audio book for A game of thrones(though I have already read the entire series), and I am still picking up on stuff I missed the first time. I can't believe how tight the story is.
Vega wrote:NathanialG wrote:Check it out! We have Tyrion!
Finally confirmation. I think Dinklage is going to be awesome and I even pictured him as I read the script (posted last page) and everything just fit. He definitely does not fit the image from the book, but then who ever does in these deals? From what I've seen of his work I think he'll be perfect and I wish this was coming this Fall. Sigh.
Excellent. I recognize him from 30 Rock, but know him best from Prince Caspian. I think the look he pulled off in Caspian speaks volumes for his ability to look like Tyrion (as in blonde).
Thanks for the picture update. I had always pictured Tyrion a little stockier than that but it still looks like a solid shot. The acting will go a long way towards making him anyway so I won't worry too much about it.
I also think of Tyrion as stockier but I think my ideas of him are influenced by fantasy "dwarves" as opposed to a real life midget or small person.
The interesting thing about Tyrion is that when we really first meet him (Jon leaving drunk from feast) he does a somersault off a ledge. I think GRRM may have originally pictured him as an acrobatic dwarf or something.
The interesting thing about Tyrion is that when we really first meet him (Jon leaving drunk from feast) he does a somersault off a ledge. I think GRRM may have originally pictured him as an acrobatic dwarf or something.
I remember thinking the same thing. As he's introduced he seemed like Yoda in Episode 2: mostly slow and limping, but can do acrobatic flips if necessary.
Related to George R.R. Martin, Neil Gaiman had an interesting blog post recently: George R.R. Martin is not your Female Doggo.
Related to George R.R. Martin, Neil Gaiman had an interesting blog post recently: George R.R. Martin is not your Female Doggo.
Nice. I kind of needed that. I have been getting a little impatient with the man lately.
Those were some great comments.
I have always wondered about why he has the scene where tyrion jumps off the ledge and summersaults. Other than fighting in battles (not always so sucsessfully) and maulling his lady we don't see Tyrion doing anything athletic.
Looks like the videogame rights have been optioned by Cyanide Studios, an independent French developer, to be made as both a RTS and RPG for PC and Consoles. Aiming for a Summer 2011 release.
Hmm. I'd be curious, but my expectations won't be up.
Looks like the videogame rights have been optioned by Cyanide Studios, an independent French developer, to be made as both a RTS and RPG for PC and Consoles. Aiming for a Summer 2011 release.
Hmm. I'd be curious, but my expectations won't be up.
That's just weird. I can't imagine what type of game could be made of this. I suppose there could be an RTS to be made of the battle at The Wall with all the various units (archers, wildlings, giants, mammoths, skinchangers, etc.) but there wasn't much variety on the Crows side. Other than that, I can only imagine an RPG where after 50 hours of playing and leveling your character the game just randomly kills you and deletes your character.
bnpederson wrote:Related to George R.R. Martin, Neil Gaiman had an interesting blog post recently: George R.R. Martin is not your Female Doggo.
Nice. I kind of needed that. I have been getting a little impatient with the man lately.
While I definitely agree that people(myself included here) have an overly large sense of entitlement when it comes to these sorts of things, there is a major point that he completely and utterly screws up all the way at the end. In a way, it kind of invalidates everything else he says because of how egregiously wrong he is. The quote in question:
And Gareth, in the future, when you see other people complaining that George R.R. Martin has been spotted doing something other than writing the book they are waiting for, explain to them, more politely than I did the first time, the simple and unanswerable truth: George R. R. Martin is not working for you.
Hope that helps.
Because the truth of the matter is that George RR Martin is an author. He is certainly not my 'Female Doggo', nor do I want him to be. I'm not his editor and thus don't set his deadlines; he can take as long as he wants to write his books.
But if he has a desire to receive compensation for his work, then perhaps he should remember that if he's not selling books, he's not getting paid. And I, among others, am the ones plonking down $20-$30 for a hardback copy of his work. In other words, while I'm not the sole individual paying his salary, I sure as hell am one of them. People who buy books are somewhat akin to stockholders in an author; without us, publishers will say 'there won't be enough sales for us to back you financially, so good luck'. Without readers who buy books, authors are out of a job.
So while he's absolutely right in that they are not completely beholden to us, and there isn't a formal written contract, I believe that there is very much an unwritten contract between an author and their consumers to essentially not screw us, or screw around with us.
Because the truth of the matter is that George RR Martin is an author. He is certainly not my 'Female Doggo', nor do I want him to be. I'm not his editor and thus don't set his deadlines; he can take as long as he wants to write his books.
But if he has a desire to receive compensation for his work, then perhaps he should remember that if he's not selling books, he's not getting paid. And I, among others, am the ones plonking down $20-$30 for a hardback copy of his work. In other words, while I'm not the sole individual paying his salary, I sure as hell am one of them. People who buy books are somewhat akin to stockholders in an author; without us, publishers will say 'there won't be enough sales for us to back you financially, so good luck'. Without readers who buy books, authors are out of a job.
So while he's absolutely right in that they are not completely beholden to us, and there isn't a formal written contract, I believe that there is very much an unwritten contract between an author and their consumers to essentially not screw us, or screw around with us.
I hear where you're coming from; but you are not in fact paying his salary - not even one of one-hundred-millionth of his salary. Because he does not draw salary from you. Someone might finagle a very weak argument that advances on book sales from a publisher constitute some form of downpayment, but that is in the purview of the publisher and the reader never pays a dime for that (unless you think the cost of books subsidize it, in which case that argument is incredibly weak against GRRM or other specific authors because it extends to pretty much ALL of them currently writing).
As Neil Gaiman wrote - you bought a book. You read the book. End of deal.
If George wants to make more money, he writes another book. OR he edits another book, which he does regularly. Or he co-author's another book, which he does regularly. Or he licenses his world out for others to make things on, which he continues to do. At the end of the day, he either delivers a book or he doesn't, and at the end of the day (possibly 4-6 months later) you either buy the book or you don't. If you think he took too long and want to punish him, don't buy it (and sure as hell don't read it). It's really as simple as that.
Of course, if George never finished the series, I would consider that very sucky indeed. But sucky does not mean I am entitled to demand he work on this series whenever and however possible. Similarly, if he never worked on it again, but went on to write a whole other series that was somehow even better, well then, that sucks. But hey! New series that rocks! That's bonus for me. I don't recall if people actually boycotted Stephen King for taking as long as he did with the Dark Tower series to the point where it actually mattered financially - he kept putting out books and people kept buying them. Absolutely he received hate mail and folks pleaded with him to return to Roland. For my own part, I think that demand ruined the series - he would have been better off having walked away and stayed away. To paraphrase Gaiman; I would vastly prefer to read a book from an author who is enjoying working on his series no matter the time it takes to write it, than to read something that was written under pressure.
Take as long as you need George.
More ice and fire info... looks like they got a video game in the works now as well
If only all this attention would help Martin finish the damn books.
You know...I had a really long-winded comment I was going to write but then I read that Neil Gaiman blog and realized that I can't say it any better.
George RR Martin is not my Female Doggo. Or yours. (maybe his wife's but that's his perogative)
Instead of anger for what we don't have we should be thankful for what we do have. Some of the the most entertaining and engaging prose and characterization to come around in a long time.
My father is an artist/musician. During his divorce many moons ago he took the vast majority of his paintings and destroyed them in the back yard. I was so puzzled and hurt I asked him why he did it and he said:
"They were me and not something to be bartered. I created them and I destroyed them. I think someone once said that the highest form of one's own art is its destruction. I think I know what they mean now."
That's not quite verbatim but a very accurate quote. THe older I get the more I understand it.
But if he has a desire to receive compensation for his work, then perhaps he should remember that if he's not selling books, he's not getting paid.
...
So while he's absolutely right in that they are not completely beholden to us, and there isn't a formal written contract, I believe that there is very much an unwritten contract between an author and their consumers to essentially not screw us, or screw around with us.
Your tone flip flops between sympathetic and entitled so quickly and often it made my head spin.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or be snarky, but it appears that you're exhibiting the exact behavior that Gaiman's post addresses.
AnimeJ wrote:But if he has a desire to receive compensation for his work, then perhaps he should remember that if he's not selling books, he's not getting paid.
...
So while he's absolutely right in that they are not completely beholden to us, and there isn't a formal written contract, I believe that there is very much an unwritten contract between an author and their consumers to essentially not screw us, or screw around with us.Your tone flip flops between sympathetic and entitled so quickly and often it made my head spin.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or be snarky, but it appears that you're exhibiting the exact behavior that Gaiman's post addresses.
I'll try and address both yours and the other point in the same vein. I'll probably fail, but that's par for the course.
On the subject of book sales not paying his salary(for lack of a better term), I don't see that at all. Are you seriously going to tell me he gets a one time check and zero royalties from sales? I don't believe that for an instant. He writes books, we consume books, and to that end, he is a part of a very informal social contract to deliver on expectations, within a certain bound. Honestly, how many people here would stop reading his books altogether, tell everyone they know to stop reading them if he were to release a Song of Fire & Ice novel written about as well as Twilight? I would, and I doubt that there are many people around here who disagree on that point. Novels are read for entertainment, and like any other medium of entertainment, keeping your fans happy, within reason, is the key to success. Fail at that, and you're out of work. It certainly doesn't make him 'our Female Doggo', but it doesn't excuse bad behavior on his part. Because if it did, then every single argument in the umpty page Terry Goodkind haterade thread would be null on that basis alone. Can't have it both ways, folks.
On being entitled vs sympathetic, there's nothing stopping me from seeing both sides of the argument. There's a lot of folks who have this crazy sense of entitlement. I'm not one of them. I do have every right to not get screwed over(that whole informal social contract), and if he does, then guess what? I take my money and spend it elsewhere(SoF&I V being rewritten as adolescent schlep). I don't get to bless him out or be angry about it, it's just a simple vote with my dollars(back to levels of entitlement).
Make more sense that way?
I don't know why people are arguing with AJ. All he said is that we are paying GRRM by buying his books. People always want to argue on the internet, me included.
huh? a game? wonder what angle a rpg would take, the rts seems doable with house vs house action, but an rpg? I visualize something more inline with the witcher; much more gritty, imperfect characters. Could be fun.
Any one try the board game of A Game of Thrones?
Here's the way I see it: there is no "very informal social contract to deliver on expectations" when you buy a book. You're buying a book. You aren't making a down payment on a series or investing in a fictional character's future, you're paying for that book that's out right now and which you can then read. It's a simple transaction and nothing more is stated or implied.
You are not paying George R.R. Martin's salary, you're buying a product. The fact that this product is intended to be part of a whole doesn't make you a shareholder in the future products, it simply makes you an owner of the product you purchased.
While you have the right to complain to high heaven thanks to the freedom of speech and the tolerance of others George R.R. Martin is also well within his rights to ignore you and watch his NFL games without any sense of guilt. Martin doesn't owe the next book in the Song of Ice and Fire series to anyone except his publisher, assuming they have a contract for it.
Most of what you are saying is pretty straightforward. He creates a product, you choose to buy or not buy said product. But a statement like this:
I do have every right to not get screwed over(that whole informal social contract), and if he does, then guess what? I take my money and spend it elsewhere(SoF&I V being rewritten as adolescent schlep). I don't get to bless him out or be angry about it, it's just a simple vote with my dollars(back to levels of entitlement).
does reek of entitlement, and that's where you lose me.
You're not getting screwed over, regardless of whether the book comes out or not. It's a book. This is not your cellphone company happily charging you for 1000 minutes when you only use 800 per month, then charging $0.40/minute the one time you do go over. This is not a used car salesman selling you a lemon.
Your "contract" with the author is illusory. You have (presumably) purchased a book from a bookstore, and if the goods are defective you take it up with the bookstore, not the author. You cannot get screwed by the author, unlike the cases above. You are not relying on his goods or services to get by.
I think bnpederson is saying the same thing I am, but probably more coherently (can't sleep due to sprained ankle throbbing).
Dude, if something is advertised as a series, you invest time and money into the first several installments, and the rest never come out, you are indeed a bit screwed. There is a difference between being disappointed if someone doesn't live up to their promises (in the future at this point) and feeling entitled.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill and recognize that AJ isn't having the argument you apparently really want to have, and that Neil Gaiman said it better the first time.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill and recognize that AJ isn't having the argument you apparently really want to have, and that Neil Gaiman said it better the first time.
Everyone hear that? Fed is advocating the use of drugs! Someone get me an adult!
Drugs are good, mmmkay?
Dude, if something is advertised as a series, you invest time and money into the first several installments, and the rest never come out, you are indeed a bit screwed. There is a difference between being disappointed if someone doesn't live up to their promises (in the future at this point) and feeling entitled.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill and recognize that AJ isn't having the argument you apparently really want to have, and that Neil Gaiman said it better the first time.
There's a difference between being upset, being dissappointed versus feeling screwed. That's what I was trying to point out.
As far as heated internet arguments go, this ranks about a 1 out of 10. Sorry man, you seem to be blowing it up into more than it actually is.
Dude, if something is advertised as a series, you invest time and money into the first several installments, and the rest never come out, you are indeed a bit screwed.
So did we really lose out for the duration that we didn't have Star Wars episodes 1 through 3?
I didn't think so.
Fedaykin98 wrote:Dude, if something is advertised as a series, you invest time and money into the first several installments, and the rest never come out, you are indeed a bit screwed. There is a difference between being disappointed if someone doesn't live up to their promises (in the future at this point) and feeling entitled.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill and recognize that AJ isn't having the argument you apparently really want to have, and that Neil Gaiman said it better the first time.
There's a difference between being upset, being dissappointed versus feeling screwed. That's what I was trying to point out.
As far as heated internet arguments go, this ranks about a 1 out of 10. Sorry man, you seem to be blowing it up into more than it actually is.
Given that it's my throat you're all jumping down for advocating that people are bound by informal social contract to deliver on expectations they themselves set up, I'm gonna disagree with you on that. On top of that, you did start this one, so while you're backpedaling away from it, keep that in mind, eh? 
As for the books themselves, you're setting up strawmen here. When I buy a book, I give money to a bookstore, who gives money to a distributor, which goes to the publisher, who hands the author a royalty check. You've yet to dispute that fact, which does indeed mean that just like with my game analogy, we, the consumers, are paying the author. Does he get an advance? Sure, but that advance is given on the presumption that the author is going to continue to provide the type of material they've been getting paid for, or whatever else is specified by that contract. So what happens when he fails to deliver on that contract? He's also failed to deliver on the expectations of the consumers. Which, as Fed points out, squanders our time & money that we have indeed invested in him as an author.
I absolutely agree that people, by and large have an overly large sense of entitlement. Getting pissed that GRRM takes football season off every year(and always has AFAIK) is ridiculous. I have not, and do not see an issue with people holding the simple expectation that he finish the series, preferably before he dies.
Any one try the board game of A Game of Thrones?
Yes. It is good. The mechanics seem to be loosely based on Diplomacy, but unlike Diplomacy, you're not likely to end up personally hating the other people playing.
I'm really interested in trying out the card game. It's an LCG (Living Card Game), which unlike CCGs, doesn't have randomness in what you're buying.
Blotto The Clown wrote:Any one try the board game of A Game of Thrones?
Yes. It is good. The mechanics seem to be loosely based on Diplomacy, but unlike Diplomacy, you're not likely to end up personally hating the other people playing.
I'm really interested in trying out the card game. It's an LCG (Living Card Game), which unlike CCGs, doesn't have randomness in what you're buying.
I've wanted to pick it up for years, but never thought I had the group to do it with. I was under the impression it's rather slow and makes for loooooooong games.
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