"A Game of Thrones" Spoiler-Ridden Catch-All of Doom - books and HBO show

Just finally got to the Red Wedding. Holy sh*t.

Seriously. When my wife got through that she was pissed at me for not warning her.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
Just finally got to the Red Wedding. Holy sh*t.

That part of the series made me seriously angry and crazy happy at the same time. Angry about what happened, happy that Martin managed to shock and horrify me.

Farscry wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
Just finally got to the Red Wedding. Holy sh*t.

That part of the series made me seriously angry and crazy happy at the same time. Angry about what happened, happy that Martin managed to shock and horrify me.

My wife and I listen to audiobooks whenever we're driving around town or whatever. We listened to the entire series that way.

I'd usually chat with my boss (who had read all the books before I started) about where we are at. One day at lunch I was like, "Yeah, so Arya and the Hound were just getting to the Frey's right as the wedding should be starting." He goes, "where did you stop?" "Oh, you know, they were outside, near the troops' tents, I think they were planning on going inside?" "So that's where you stopped, then??"

We didn't have any errands or anything for a couple of days so we didn't listen more for a while; my boss kept pestering me about it. "Have you read more yet?" "Have you read any more?" haha

The Red Wedding stands out, for me, as one of those moments where I stop, say, "I had to have read that wrong", go back, reread, and say, "Holy sh*t!". It is both awesome and sad. I can't wait until it is depicted in the series and all of the non-book-readers have a collective conniption.

Nevin73 wrote:
The Red Wedding stands out, for me, as one of those moments where I stop, say, "I had to have read that wrong", go back, reread, and say, "Holy sh*t!". It is both awesome and sad. I can't wait until it is depicted in the series and all of the non-book-readers have a collective conniption.

End of Season 3, man. It'll piss so many people off.

Then the End of Season 4 will restore their faith.

ccesarano wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:
The Red Wedding stands out, for me, as one of those moments where I stop, say, "I had to have read that wrong", go back, reread, and say, "Holy sh*t!". It is both awesome and sad. I can't wait until it is depicted in the series and all of the non-book-readers have a collective conniption.

End of Season 3, man. It'll piss so many people off.

Then the End of Season 4 will restore their faith.

That's if everyone doesn't all fall asleep and stop watching halfway through season 4.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Za4Ns.gif)

True. There are most definitely parts that drag a bit. Took me a long time to get through the latest book.

garion333 wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

End of Season 3, man. It'll piss so many people off.

Then the End of Season 4 will restore their faith.

That's if everyone doesn't all fall asleep and stop watching halfway through season 4.

I think they'll fix a lot of the pacing issues in the series - they've done a good job up to now! Of course, this task only gets more challenging in the later books...

obirano wrote:
True. There are most definitely parts that drag a bit. Took me a long time to get through the latest book.
I thought Dances was great. I finished it in a weekend. It's no Feast for Crows

garion333 wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:
The Red Wedding stands out, for me, as one of those moments where I stop, say, "I had to have read that wrong", go back, reread, and say, "Holy sh*t!". It is both awesome and sad. I can't wait until it is depicted in the series and all of the non-book-readers have a collective conniption.

End of Season 3, man. It'll piss so many people off.

Then the End of Season 4 will restore their faith.

That's if everyone doesn't all fall asleep and stop watching halfway through season 4.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Za4Ns.gif)

How could you possibly fall asleep and stop watching at any point in the latter half of Storm of Swords?! i.e. if I remember right, Storm is going to be split into two seasons.

drdoak wrote:
obirano wrote:
True. There are most definitely parts that drag a bit. Took me a long time to get through the latest book.
I thought Dances was great. I finished it in a weekend. It's no Feast for Crows :|

Agreed. Feast is the most bleh.

I like how his books are reflecting the actual happenings in Westeros though. The real storyline here--go go gadget speculation--is how the Others are going to invade, and the only people that will be able to stop them are dragons (Dani, Jon Snow, Hidden Targaryen Prince (all with actual dragons)), Valyrian steel, and a seriously more unified Westeros.

This whole Stark vs Lannister thing is just a microcosm of the BS that will prevent the Westerosi from surviving the Others' assault.

Nevin73 wrote:
The Red Wedding stands out, for me, as one of those moments where I stop, say, "I had to have read that wrong", go back, reread, and say, "Holy sh*t!". It is both awesome and sad. I can't wait until it is depicted in the series and all of the non-book-readers have a collective conniption.

Agreed.

I remember how everyone that hadn't read the book went ballistic when Ned was executed, and the whole time I just kept thinking to myself, "Oh, you people have NO idea!"

Good times.

The Red Wedding was tragic, but at least we get Zombie Catelyn. Unholy vengeance unleashed!

heavyfeul wrote:
The Red Wedding was tragic, but at least we get Zombie Catelyn. Unholy vengeance unleashed!

This is among my least favorite things in the entire series. I hope he's going somewhere interesting with Cat but I just find her annoying, dead or alive.

Squee9 wrote:
drdoak wrote:
obirano wrote:
True. There are most definitely parts that drag a bit. Took me a long time to get through the latest book.
I thought Dances was great. I finished it in a weekend. It's no Feast for Crows :|

Agreed. Feast is the most bleh.

I like how his books are reflecting the actual happenings in Westeros though. The real storyline here--go go gadget speculation--is how the Others are going to invade, and the only people that will be able to stop them are dragons (Dani, Jon Snow, Hidden Targaryen Prince (all with actual dragons)), Valyrian steel, and a seriously more unified Westeros.

This whole Stark vs Lannister thing is just a microcosm of the BS that will prevent the Westerosi from surviving the Others' assault.

I think I floundered at Dances due to the fact that I just started reading them this summer and did them all back to back to back and was disappointed when I found that a lot of Dances takes place at the same time. I wanted to know what was going to happen next.

obirano wrote:
Squee9 wrote:
drdoak wrote:
obirano wrote:
True. There are most definitely parts that drag a bit. Took me a long time to get through the latest book.
I thought Dances was great. I finished it in a weekend. It's no Feast for Crows :|

Agreed. Feast is the most bleh.

I like how his books are reflecting the actual happenings in Westeros though. The real storyline here--go go gadget speculation--is how the Others are going to invade, and the only people that will be able to stop them are dragons (Dani, Jon Snow, Hidden Targaryen Prince (all with actual dragons)), Valyrian steel, and a seriously more unified Westeros.

This whole Stark vs Lannister thing is just a microcosm of the BS that will prevent the Westerosi from surviving the Others' assault.

I think I floundered at Dances due to the fact that I just started reading them this summer and did them all back to back to back and was disappointed when I found that a lot of Dances takes place at the same time. I wanted to know what was going to happen next.


Oh, I get that. I was disappointed AT Feast because of that. Then in Dance, I got Arya chapters again. I mean, it's not all about Arya, but c'mon...

i'fe alreadsaid tha t sans if yorno t goná lisren to me ima gone dayujm

kexx wrote:
i'fe alreadsaid tha t sans if yorno t goná lisren to me ima gone dayujm

Lisren to this man. Kexx you're slipping, this one is almost completely legible.

kexx wrote:
i'fe alreadsaid tha t sans if yorno t goná lisren to me ima gone dayujm

I think you are having a stroke.

So reading through book 5 a Waltz with Wyverns.

I am not sure any of the books may be described as better or worse than others, save that you might prefer or like characters more than others.

The books tell some wonderful, but brief, and lavish stories of far too many characters. There are dozens of main characters. There are also way too many of Checkov's guns lying about, sometimes they seem to go off on their own.

KingGorilla wrote:
I am not sure any of the books may be described as better or worse than others, save that you might prefer or like characters more than others.

I disagree - the pacing of the different books, along with the tightness of the plotlines, vary dramatically. I'd argue that Books 1-3 had fantastic pacing (some might disagree about book 2), book 4 was somewhat worse (though I appreciated it more upon a second reading), and book 5 was terrible. Between the details of Jon Snow's administration of his refugee camp, and Tyrion's endless journey down the river, there were far to many pages that didn't move the story forward or develop the characters in a meaningful way.

Book 5 also suffers much more from character creep than any of the others, IMO. Was Young Griff really a necessary addition to this story? Do we really care about the Martell Prince?

I think you are saying political intrigue and back room politics is less interesting than war, essentially. The books I see that people tend to prefer, are those with the battles and blood, and all that. The books that bore them are the ones about politics, deal making, spies, double crosses.

KingGorilla wrote:
I think you are saying political intrigue and back room politics is less interesting than war, essentially. The books I see that people tend to prefer, are those with the battles and blood, and all that. The books that bore them are the ones about politics, deal making, spies, double crosses.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. Many of the battles in 1-3 happen offstage. Also, Tyrion's stewardship of King's Landing is mostly backroom politics, and these were some of the most riveting chapters.

Once characters like Breanne start popping up, the books get quite bogged down. All the plot points covered in Breanne's chapters could have been covered just as well from other characters, and in fewer chapters. Books 4 and 5 have a lot of main characters spending their chapters waiting around for other characters to catch up or do something interesting.

They're still good books, but in my opinion not up to the standard of what Martin showcased in the first three books.

Yeah, I don't recall much "political intrigue" or "backroom politics" in the chapters in which Tyrion takes a Lazy River Ride or Brienne faffs about looking for Sansa, and those were boring as sh*t.

Whereas when Tyrion vies with Cersei for control of King's Landing or Littlefinger starts pushing people out windows and brokering marriage alliances, I tend to sit up and take notice.

Littlefinger is the best CK2 player of all time.

Dysplastic wrote:
book 5 was terrible. Between the details of Jon Snow's administration of his refugee camp, and Tyrion's endless journey down the river, there were far to many pages that didn't move the story forward or develop the characters in a meaningful way.

I actually found the chapters where Jon was dealing with the tug of war between the wildlings and the Night's Watch and Stannis's people very interesting. It felt a little on the slow side at times, but was otherwise interesting. Tyrion's journey on the river I also found interesting; in contrast, once he was kidnapped by Mormont, though, his chapters became frustrating and interminable. Their capture by the slavers only served to drag that on even more. Then FINALLY he signed on with the mercs, but that was his last chapter in the book. Obviously the character development will likely be important to Tyrion's character (where do whores go?) -- or at least I hope it will -- but it just was frustrating and often dull following Tyrion as he was dragged all over the place against his will. Versus how entertaining that was in A Game of Thrones.

And Daenerys... ugh. I disliked her character in the first book, grew to find her a little interesting in the second book, and grew to really like her character in the third book. This book, though... frankly, her character "arc" felt damn near pointless in Dance with Dragons. Every time I hit another "oh woe is me I love mr. bluebeard but does he truly love me back?" chapter, I was tempted to quit reading. And then leaving those poor dragons caged up in a cave... that was sad.

I was interested in Martell's arc, and found the completion of it very interesting for the potential consequences it may have for Dorne.

KingGorilla wrote:
I think you are saying political intrigue and back room politics is less interesting than war, essentially. The books I see that people tend to prefer, are those with the battles and blood, and all that. The books that bore them are the ones about politics, deal making, spies, double crosses.

That's not really what I'm saying - as others have since pointed out, there are a lot of aspects in books 4-5 that have nothing to do with political intrigue at all. Even the parts that ostensibly contain elements of intrigue (Jon/Daenerys as City Managers) are less about intrigue and more about incompetence. While there are parts of those stories that are interesting, they take up far to much word-space for the amount they bring to the narrative. I feel like Martin could have driven home his plot/character points for those chapters far more succinctly. So no, nothing to do with intrigue vs war. I loved Book 2 which has a hell of a lot of intrigue.

Farscry - I think I'm with you on Tyrion's chapters - when I talk about his River Ride, I'm just using shorthand for his entire journey, which was frustrating and interminable on the whole.

Dysplastic wrote:
Farscry - I think I'm with you on Tyrion's chapters - when I talk about his River Ride, I'm just using shorthand for his entire journey, which was frustrating and interminable on the whole.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, while there were a few bits I liked, I definitely was very disappointed by Tyrion's story in Dance as a whole. Very underwhelming after how awesome his storyline was in the first three books.

It sucked because it appears to be bookended (fingers crossed) by books of Tyrion being awesome.