2011 MLB Season Discussion

AndrewA wrote:

Baseball is absolutely broken when it comes to spending. I really despise how some teams - and the Red Sox are a chief offender, so don't kid yourself Trophy - can afford to (over)pay great players to lure them away from the teams that turned them into stars in the first place. Most other serious sports have salary caps for a reason - I'd love to see the MLB stop being so damned primitive.

(I'd love to see New York, Philly, Boston, etc. try to field a competitive team when they can't triple or quadruple the spending of other clubs.)

The problems with baseball are deeper than what a salary cap can solve at this point. There is one solution, and it will never happen. MLB needs to own all TV rights. They then need to distribute those fund in a much more equitable manner. This is exactly how the NFL is able to keep a team like Green Bay competitive.

There is no cap that could be installed in baseball becasue the gulf is to wide. Even if the cap was $75 million, half of baseball would still fail to compete, although it would be closer. But all you would have done is eliminate a sh*t ton of money that the players could be paid with. So there is no way the player the players would agree. The cap works (well, it did) in the NFL because players are guaranteed a % of the revenue.

Basically, MLB needs to be destroyed, and a new league formed. This will never happen.

You're probably right... but I can still dream and rant and rave, can't I? This is still the Internet after all.

I can't remember how skewed NHL payrolls were prior to the salary cap being imposed, but the league has been better ever since they went that route, IMO.

Edit: A ha! Here's a handy chart (sorted by 2003 payroll). The cap was imposed after the 2004/05 lockout, so you can see here that some teams - like in MLB - were tripling the payroll of others (and one almost quadrupling).

These days the worst that happens is a near-doubling, and the league ha been more competative because of it.

Jayhawker wrote:

So Albert Pujols started at 3B last night. While I think it is an iffy move, as he has a history of arm problems, the Cardinals can be an even more dominant team with Pujols taking over third. There are just way more possibilities for the team if 1B is open. Berkman is better there, which opens up a spot in RF.

Basically, like most teams, 3B is a tough place to find production, and is a huge advantage if you can. Come July, if all you need to find is an Outfielder or first baseman, there will be deal to be had. If you need to plug third base, there may be nothing there. Or what is available will be more expensive.

I'm really curious if the team will continue to play Albert there. The best case would be for David Freese to come back healthy and ready to produce. The kid was having a nice start until an injury, as he seems to be prone to, sent him to the DL.

Pet grammar peeve.

So Albert Pujols started at 3B last night. While I think it is an iffy move, as he has a history of arm problems, the Cardinals can be an even more dominant team with Pujols taking over third. There are just way more possibilities for the team if 1B is open. Berkman is better there, which opens up a spot in RF.

Basically, like most teams, 3B is a tough place to find production, and is a huge advantage if you can. Come July, if all you need to find is an Outfielder or first baseman, there will be deal to be had. If you need to plug third base, there may be nothing there. Or what is available will be more expensive.

I'm really curious if the team will continue to play Albert there. The best case would be for David Freese to come back healthy and ready to produce. The kid was having a nice start until an injury, as he seems to be prone to, sent him to the DL.

Tanglebones wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

So Albert Pujols started at 3B last night. While I think it is an iffy move, as he has a history of arm problems, the Cardinals can be an even more dominant team with Pujols taking over third. There are just way more possibilities for the team if 1B is open. Berkman is better there, which opens up a spot in RF.

Basically, like most teams, 3B is a tough place to find production, and is a huge advantage if you can. Come July, if all you need to find is an Outfielder or first baseman, there will be deal to be had. If you need to plug third base, there may be nothing there. Or what is available will be more expensive.

I'm really curious if the team will continue to play Albert there. The best case would be for David Freese to come back healthy and ready to produce. The kid was having a nice start until an injury, as he seems to be prone to, sent him to the DL.

Pet grammar peeve.

Not grammar so much as bad editing. I started out by saying the Cardinals could dominate, but went back to what you wrote. But I failed to fix the word.

As Jose Bautista continues to excel, the question was brought up: Pre-Steroids Era, who was the last hitter to smack 50 HRs in back-to-back years........................................

Babe Ruth, '27-'28.

I'm still waiting for a Babe Ruth day in baseball.

The Twins have stumbled onto something called a "winning streak". Apparently, it's what happens when you win more than one game in a row.

It's pretty ridiculous if they needed somebody to die for them to get their sh*t together.

Oh Toronto.... it's quaint that you think that you can win a game after committing five errors, and receiving benefit of the doubt from the official scorer on two more suspect plays. Adam Lind can't return from the DL soon enough.... not only do we need his bat, but we need to keep a glove off of Edwin Encarnation's hand. The man is a walking error machine.

In other news - Jose Bautista is my god.

The Mariners are doing much better this year. Actually some run support! Timely hits! and a bullpen that does the job (although my whole body goes tight every time B. League comes in to close. He's doing the job, but I can't help but remember times past). Rookie sensation Pineda is really something...BUT...

... support isn't consistent and when it especially isn't there for F. Hernandez (2-1 lost recently), it's just a slow pounding of nail in the coffin of the ace's discontent. He always say he just goes out and competes and does his job. But after numerous years, I think it's wearing thin and when his contract is up, he' be moving on imho. It will be a shame and obviously a great loss. But as long as the Mariners keep going after arms when they are packed full of them, instead of a bonafide hitter is beyond me. But(!) it IS good to see Wedge benching seasoned players not doing the job for young talent early on in the season.

And gawd help me, miracles do happen. Cust got a couple hits for rbi's!! AND why on earth do they not but Adam Kennedy in for some of these non performers. Figgins and Ryan aren't doing the job offensively and Kennedy has good enough bat (3rd in hitting for gawd sakes) and defensive skill do be in there every game).

Rumor has it too, that our last years #1 pick, Dustin Ackely may be called up soon. So Figgins (or J. Wilson, but imo, Figgins more so) may be moving on. Fine by me.

Donan wrote:

(although my whole body goes tight every time B. League comes in to close. He's doing the job, but I can't help but remember times past).

Heh - I can relate to this. When the Jays had him he was either a joy to watch or an unmitigated disaster depending on the phase of the moon. The movement he can get on a ball is just unfair, but its balanced by the fact that, now and then, the only strike he can throw is right down the heart of the plate.

Something new I noticed during the Rays - Yanks game Tuesday when I had a question about the stats they were showing on the board

Sacrifice Bunts -

A successful sacrifice bunt does not count as an at bat and, unlike a sacrifice fly, does not count during the calculation of on base percentage. However, if the official scorer believes that the batter was attempting to bunt for a base hit, and not solely to advance the runners, he is not credited with a sacrifice bunt and is charged an at bat.
AndrewA wrote:

Oh Toronto.... it's quaint that you think that you can win a game after committing five errors, and receiving benefit of the doubt from the official scorer on two more suspect plays. Adam Lind can't return from the DL soon enough.... not only do we need his bat, but we need to keep a glove off of Edwin Encarnation's hand. The man is a walking error machine.

In other news - Jose Bautista is my god.

If HRs counted as 2 runs, Toronto would win every game!

A suspect in the beating of Giants fan Bryan Stow outside Dodgers stadium has been arrested.

Jayhawker wrote:

The problems with baseball are deeper than what a salary cap can solve at this point. There is one solution, and it will never happen. MLB needs to own all TV rights. They then need to distribute those fund in a much more equitable manner. This is exactly how the NFL is able to keep a team like Green Bay competitive.

I think you're missing a big difference between the NFL and MLB when it comes to TV revenue, and that's length of season and number of games. MLB regular season is 162 games and the NFL is only 16. That means in many cases (and Green Bay is an excellent example of this), there's far more demand to see games than there are seats in the stadium. Except for teams like the Red Sox or the Cubs, that scenario simply doesn't exist in baseball. Without the widespread demand to watch games which are sold out, I don't think the TV revenue will help to balance the league much.
The other major issue I see is also related to the number of games. There's a ton of revenue from ticket sales and concessions because there are 81 home games every season. I don't see a way to balance that revenue across all the teams.
I agree things are pretty broken. I've spoken with a few folks around here who refer to the small market teams as AAAA-level, and that seems pretty apt to me. One of them will get hot every once and a while and contend for and even win the world series. Most of the time they just serve as high-level farm teams until a player's salary outgrows the club in which they grew up.
I just don't see a way to fix the revenue issue. The differences in number of games and length of the season suggest that using the NFL as a revenue-sharing model isn't practical. I'm not sure if the NHL would be a better group to model themselves after. I do know baseball ownership is a conservative bunch, and any change will be slow to come.

GO MARINERS! 6 game winning streak. omg, just saying that made me fall over. Congrats team!!(and before last nights game, lowest era for 5 games since the 1998 Giants!)

I have a new found respect for Barry Bonds.

Buster Posey's likely done for the year with a broken leg and torn ligaments.

Rat Boy wrote:

Buster Posey's likely done for the year with a broken leg and torn ligaments.

The fact that it's considered good baseball to hurl yourself at a stationary catcher to try to take him out is utterly ridiculous. Get this crap out of the game - it shouldn't be legal to block the plate like Posey was, nor should it be legal to launch yourself at another player like Cousins did.

Rat Boy wrote:

Buster Posey's likely done for the year with a broken leg and torn ligaments.

This is ridiculous! I agree. This part of the 'macho' aspect of baseball should be curtailed. To cut a enormous talent out of the game for a length of time in his second year is a darn shame. Period!

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Buster Posey's likely done for the year with a broken leg and torn ligaments.

I am gonna be the contrary point here. Catcher is a rough position, the only one really in baseball. The guys wear body armor and they tend to use it. He took a knock, and a lot of catchers do. But it's been part of the game for just about forever.

This is why the Washington Nationals converted Bryce Harper to an outfielder. Your catcher takes the most wear and tear, the hardest knocks (From accidentally contact with a bat from time to time, collisions at the plate, blocking balls, etc) so it's not really wise to make your best everyday player your backstop.

Incoming hate, I know. It was a clean play though.

I agree, especially since this wasn't a head injury, or any type of upper body injury that taking out a catcher may cause. His ankle was caught under the collision, it was a clean play and unfortunate for a good player.

Rat Boy wrote:

Buster Posey's likely done for the year with a broken leg and torn ligaments.

I am gonna be the contrary point here. Catcher is a rough position, the only one really in baseball. The guys wear body armor and they tend to use it. He took a knock, and a lot of catchers do. But it's been part of the game for just about forever.

This is why the Washington Nationals converted Bryce Harper to an outfielder. Your catcher takes the most wear and tear, the hardest knocks (From accidentally contact with a bat from time to time, collisions at the plate, blocking balls, etc) so it's not really wise to make your best everyday player your backstop.

Incoming hate, I know. It was a clean play though.

I know it's perhaps not intentional, but this seems very much more because he's Buster Posey than the hit. Where's the outrage about hard slides in to second and Tsuyoshi Nishioka? When John Lannan tries to kill Chase Utley on a regular basis, I don't call for a rule change.

I see your point. AND how great this makes Joe Mauer in prior years. It's finally caught up with him a bit this year. And of course my all time catcher for 'ummpphh': Pug Rodriguez.

As a total side note, this whole dicussion led to someone reminding me of this classic gem:

Norm Charlton, the Cincinatti Reds' pitcher, was HBP which put a fire in him.

C'monnnnnnnnnnnn.

But yeah. Cousins' was a clean play. That's doin' it dirty. Also, Jesus Christ, how long has Joe Morgan worked for ESPN?

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Incoming hate, I know. It was a clean play though.

You sound like some of the hockey apologists that tried to defend "clean plays" like the blindside hit on Marc Savard that basically ruined his career. The rules have since been changed to outlaw formally "clean plays" and try to protect the stars of the game.

Launching yourself at another player with intent like Cousins did is something that should be removed from baseball, tradition be damned. Nasty slides that are aimed at fielders can also go, to be honest. I want to see the game's stars be stars... not hospital patients.

AndrewA wrote:
Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Incoming hate, I know. It was a clean play though.

You sound like some of the hockey apologists that tried to defend "clean plays" like the blindside hit on Marc Savard that basically ruined his career. The rules have since been changed to outlaw formally "clean plays" and try to protect the stars of the game.

Launching yourself at another player with intent like Cousins did is something that should be removed from baseball, tradition be damned. Nasty slides that are aimed at fielders can also go, to be honest. I want to see the game's stars be stars... not hospital patients.

You know what can go? Blocking the plate when you don't have the ball --
oh wait, that is already illegal
:

7.06
When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction."
If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batterrunner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out.
Rule 7.06(a) Comment: When a play is being made on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall signal obstruction in the same manner that he calls “Time,” with both hands overhead. The ball is immediately dead when this signal is given; however, should a thrown ball be in flight before the obstruction is called by the umpire, the runners are to be awarded such bases on wild throws as they would have been awarded had not obstruction occurred. On a play where a runner was trapped between second and third and obstructed by the third baseman going into third base while the throw is in flight from the shortstop, if such throw goes into the dugout the obstructed runner is to be awarded home base. Any other runners on base in this situation would also be awarded two bases from the base they last legally touched before obstruction was called.
(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.
Rule 7.06(b) Comment: Under 7.06(b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire’s judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call.
NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.

Posey didn't have the ball, he had his eyes on the outfield and not the runner. He was obstructing the base-path. You want me to dick it up? He broke a rule that's there for his own safety and snapped his own leg for violating it.

But know what? It's a bit of a silly rule. It's not been enforced in 80 years with 162 games per year with dozens of teams per year. Collisions happen all the time. Breaking up a double-play happens all the time. The only reason you care is that it's a star player and a freakish accident. There were no tears when Swisher broke a relative nobody's leg. They were both clean plays. The only person who broke a rule designed for the safety of the players was Posey himself.

Wanna ban throwing inside while we're at it?

Against guys jumping at the warning track?
IMAGE(http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/Rowand.jpg)

Let's not forget to ban fun too, that's taken down stars also.

Or maybe freak accidents happen from time to time.

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Where's the outrage about hard slides in to second and Tsuyoshi Nishioka?

Right here. That was a dirty f*cking play.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Where's the outrage about hard slides in to second and Tsuyoshi Nishioka?

Right here. That was a dirty f*cking play.

I know some people who disagree with your assessment.

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

You know what can go? Blocking the plate when you don't have the ball --
oh wait, that is already illegal

I call filthy skimmer on you. I'll just quote myself I think:

AndrewA wrote:

The fact that it's considered good baseball to hurl yourself at a stationary catcher to try to take him out is utterly ridiculous. Get this crap out of the game - it shouldn't be legal to block the plate like Posey was, nor should it be legal to launch yourself at another player like Cousins did.

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

The only reason you care is that it's a star player and a freakish accident. There were no tears when Swisher broke a relative nobody's leg. They were both clean plays. The only person who broke a rule designed for the safety of the players was Posey himself.

To be honest, I hadn't ever heard of Posey prior to the collision, so no... in my case at least it's not the star player effect at all. (I'm getting back into baseball after years of avoiding it due to the work stoppages of the 90's - I'm suddenly being reminded of how stone-headed the league is with it's stubbornness to fix broken things).

Question: have you watched replays of the play we're talking about here? Did you see Cousins basically ignore the plate in order to launch himself at Posey (who wasn't as firmly in the base path as people seem to think he was - see here)? That sh*t's not clean regardless - I don't care where the catcher is, you just can't launch yourself into him like that - it's reckless.

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Wanna ban throwing inside while we're at it?

Pitchers can be ejected if the ump feels that they were intentionally trying to hit a batter. Inside throwing is different than intentionally beaning a guy.

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Against guys jumping at the warning track?

That's self inflicted, and definitely fine and you know it. Trying to equate an athletic play to intentionally plowing someone is not particularly ingenious.

Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Or maybe freak accidents happen from time to time.

Freak accidents totally happen - and that's fine. Like Yunel Escobar sliding hard into third and concussing himself on the thirdbaseman's knee earlier this season. Or players colliding hard when going for popflys. There's no intent to injure in those plays.... but there was in the Posey/Cousins collision, and that's the difference.

Even if Cousins feels bad now, he can't deny that he intentionally ran over Posey at top speed when he had a choice not to do so.... he could have tried to slide around him, for example.... I watches Jose Bautista do that brilliantly not too long ago when a catcher was blocking the plate in a similar manner.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:

Where's the outrage about hard slides in to second and Tsuyoshi Nishioka?

Right here. That was a dirty f*cking play.

No way that was dirty. No way at all. Unfortunate he broke his leg but that's how it sometimes goes playing with the big boys.

Edit: Redacted rant upon reflection.

Kush15 wrote:
Oreo_Speedwagon wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Buster Posey's likely done for the year with a broken leg and torn ligaments.

I am gonna be the contrary point here. Catcher is a rough position, the only one really in baseball. The guys wear body armor and they tend to use it. He took a knock, and a lot of catchers do. But it's been part of the game for just about forever.

This is why the Washington Nationals converted Bryce Harper to an outfielder. Your catcher takes the most wear and tear, the hardest knocks (From accidentally contact with a bat from time to time, collisions at the plate, blocking balls, etc) so it's not really wise to make your best everyday player your backstop.

Incoming hate, I know. It was a clean play though.

I agree, especially since this wasn't a head injury, or any type of upper body injury that taking out a catcher may cause. His ankle was caught under the collision, it was a clean play and unfortunate for a good player.

Agree with the above 100%. Its unfortunate that Posey was hurt but it was a clean play. MLB/Selig will never change the rule no matter how much Posey's agent cries about it.