Ran a 5K today

Yeah, fartleks are great. I should start doing that. So, I got these last week. After going on a few runs with them, I think they're going to work great for wet weather running. We haven't had a really rainy day yet, but I think they'll do okay. The only negative is that they fit perfectly without socks but are a tad too tight with socks. I would need a size larger or wider to use socks. Not too worried about it, though, because I like running without socks. The shoe construction is fabulous. They should last me a very long time.

IMAGE(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lFs2vw9_Yms/TneiEAie9UI/AAAAAAAAAJI/6c218ZRCzic/s1600/Merrell-Sonic-Glove-Kryptonite-Gradient-1.jpg)

I have yet to buy running shoes, I have been doing the zombies 5k training with fairly new addidas cross trainers.

I'd been getting some pain developing in my knee. It seems to have lessened a bit since buying a cushioning shoe. You really should get a proper running shoe.

I also happen to have had open reduction internal fixation on the ankle, on the side causing all of the problems. I'm willing to bet that my orthopaedic surgeon wouldn't recommend distance running to me. This is the reason that I may not go for the minimalist approach.

He did clear me for all sports...

Ghostship wrote:

I'm willing to bet that my orthopaedic surgeon wouldn't recommend distance running to me.

Yeah, my cardiologist looked positively panicked when I told him I was running half-ironmans. Turns out that where most of you lot have an aorta with a cross-section of around 4 square inches, mine's about 1.5 square inches.

So we're playing the game with one hand tied behind our back. You know what that means? It means we're badass-ier than the perfectly healthy dude who crosses the finish line at the same time as us.

Suck it, perfectly healthy dude!

Ghostship wrote:

I'd been getting some pain developing in my knee. It seems to have lessened a bit since buying a cushioning shoe. You really should get a proper running shoe.

I also happen to have had open reduction internal fixation on the ankle, on the side causing all of the problems. I'm willing to bet that my orthopaedic surgeon wouldn't recommend distance running to me. This is the reason that I may not go for the minimalist approach.

He did clear me for all sports...

I would go to a physiotherapist who specializes in running. Try the U of O sports medicine clinic. They would be able to suggest the type of shoes you should wear (they might suggest a type of orthotic insert) and they might also suggest a brace or style of knee-taping to provide stability and/or reinforcement to your knee.

Rainsmercy wrote:

I have yet to buy running shoes, I have been doing the zombies 5k training with fairly new addidas cross trainers.

I'd really recommend getting the right gear if you can. You may be ok (there are people who run lots of marathons in junk shoes, just as there are people who smoke plenty without getting lung cancer), but it increases the risk of chronic damage.

Jonman wrote:
Ghostship wrote:

I'm willing to bet that my orthopaedic surgeon wouldn't recommend distance running to me.

Yeah, my cardiologist looked positively panicked when I told him I was running half-ironmans. Turns out that where most of you lot have an aorta with a cross-section of around 4 square inches, mine's about 1.5 square inches.

So we're playing the game with one hand tied behind our back. You know what that means? It means we're badass-ier than the perfectly healthy dude who crosses the finish line at the same time as us.

Suck it, perfectly healthy dude!

How do you find your aorta cross-section out btw?

Cod wrote:
Rainsmercy wrote:

I have yet to buy running shoes, I have been doing the zombies 5k training with fairly new addidas cross trainers.

I'd really recommend getting the right gear if you can. You may be ok (there are people who run lots of marathons in junk shoes, just as there are people who smoke plenty without getting lung cancer), but it increases the risk of chronic damage.

There's zero scientific evidence to back that up from what I've read, and a fair bit of research coming through that shows correlation between cushioned running shoes and increased injury risk. There's a standing offer to Nike and the like to submit their evidence that all their fancy tech reduces injury and claim a cash reward plus public bragging rights but they've not been able to deliver.

NB: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...

I'm seriously considering changing down from my Asics to a pair of Dunlop Volleys.

Cod wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Ghostship wrote:

I'm willing to bet that my orthopaedic surgeon wouldn't recommend distance running to me.

Yeah, my cardiologist looked positively panicked when I told him I was running half-ironmans. Turns out that where most of you lot have an aorta with a cross-section of around 4 square inches, mine's about 1.5 square inches.

So we're playing the game with one hand tied behind our back. You know what that means? It means we're badass-ier than the perfectly healthy dude who crosses the finish line at the same time as us.

Suck it, perfectly healthy dude!

How do you find your aorta cross-section out btw?

CT Angiography. (That's one way, at least).

Cod wrote:

How do you find your aorta cross-section out btw?

I had an echocardiogram. I've known I've had a heart murmur my entire life, and had heart surgery as a teenager to mitigate it. I used to have annual or biannual cardiac checkups before I moved overseas, and it's been a decade since I last saw a cardiologist. Figured I'd best have it looked at again, just to be on the safe side, albeit the fact that I'm successfully doing endurance sports suggests that it's not a chronic problem yet.

Prognosis is that while I'm asympomatic now (except for the fact that my peak VO2max is hard-capped by my biology, so there's only so much training benefit I can get), it ain't going to get any better, and at some point in the future, maybe 5 years, maybe 25 years, I'm looking at a heart valve replacement.

Maq wrote:
Cod wrote:
Rainsmercy wrote:

I have yet to buy running shoes, I have been doing the zombies 5k training with fairly new addidas cross trainers.

I'd really recommend getting the right gear if you can. You may be ok (there are people who run lots of marathons in junk shoes, just as there are people who smoke plenty without getting lung cancer), but it increases the risk of chronic damage.

There's zero scientific evidence to back that up from what I've read, and a fair bit of research coming through that shows correlation between cushioned running shoes and increased injury risk. There's a standing offer to Nike and the like to submit their evidence that all their fancy tech reduces injury and claim a cash reward plus public bragging rights but they've not been able to deliver.

NB: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...

I'm seriously considering changing down from my Asics to a pair of Dunlop Volleys.

From what I've read, the tendency is for different injuries with heavily cushioned shoes vs minimal/barefoot. I question the 'minimal means fewer injuries' hypothesis purely because it tends to be experienced fit runners who switch to minimal shoes, who are less likely to get injured than newbies.

Either way, my (uneducated) feeling is that heavier guys who are new(ish) to running are much better served by cushioned shoes to less the impact on the joints. Lighter folk who've been running have a musculo-skeletal system that's far more able to handle the increased loads you see from less cushioning.

I'll take the opposite tack on getting into running. I think that if you're starting out, you're in the best position to start minimalist, as that will give you better form down the road. Heavily cushioned shoes can mask a bad stride, particularly heel striking by absorbing some of the shock that gets passed up into knees/hips/lower back. The sooner a runner can ditch that bad habit, the better.

That said, I do agree that minimalist injuries aren't less, just different. Any type of activity with impact on your body can produce injuries, and I don't just mean the repetitive foot to pavement over numerous miles of running; all sports carry some sort of risk. But as folks who have switched seem to find, making the switch properly does seem to reduce the occurrence of certain types of injuries that seem to plague runners, such as shin splints, knee pain and lower back pain. I certainly have.

I wonder if it is just that people who are wearing minimalist shoes tend to be more experienced runners, and so are thus less likely to injure themselves while running. So there is correlation, but no causation.

AnimeJ wrote:

I'll take the opposite tack on getting into running. I think that if you're starting out, you're in the best position to start minimalist, as that will give you better form down the road. Heavily cushioned shoes can mask a bad stride, particularly heel striking by absorbing some of the shock that gets passed up into knees/hips/lower back. The sooner a runner can ditch that bad habit, the better.

First off, I agree that cushioned shoes can mask stride problems.

But I disagree that newbie runners are better served by going minimalist, for two reasons. (1) - there's musculo-skeletal adaptation that takes place over the first year or so of running that strengthens your joints, making them more capable of bearing the impact loads, and (2) newbie runners are more likely to have a bad stride.

Compound those two issues together by throwing a new, and possible overweight, runner into a pair of minimal shoes, and you've got a fast-tracked recipe for injury.

My suggestion is to start out in cushioned shoes and actively try to learn good running mechanics. There's any number of books, websites, running clubs and coaches that can help with that. That approach both addresses the problem of a poor stride while giving some protection while your body is adjusting to the stress of running.

Yeah, I think that learning a proper stride the most important thing. Minimalist shoes just force you to do that. I suppose it's a tough call with pros and cons on each side of the issue. If you are a bit overweight and running with minimalist shoes and it's on road that's gonna stress your legs and feet a lot. Trail or treadmill might not be so bad.

Anyways, I'm happy I went the minimal route, but then again, I'm not particularly overweight and have a decent amount of running experience (although I did take a break from running for several years and just got back into it this year). I still wear some cushy shoes maybe once a week if my legs are starting to feel a bit stressed, and I haven't quite fully recovered in 24 hours. You definitely have to listen to your body as best you can and not push things.

Jonman wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I'll take the opposite tack on getting into running. I think that if you're starting out, you're in the best position to start minimalist, as that will give you better form down the road. Heavily cushioned shoes can mask a bad stride, particularly heel striking by absorbing some of the shock that gets passed up into knees/hips/lower back. The sooner a runner can ditch that bad habit, the better.

First off, I agree that cushioned shoes can mask stride problems.

But I disagree that newbie runners are better served by going minimalist, for two reasons. (1) - there's musculo-skeletal adaptation that takes place over the first year or so of running that strengthens your joints, making them more capable of bearing the impact loads, and (2) newbie runners are more likely to have a bad stride.

Compound those two issues together by throwing a new, and possible overweight, runner into a pair of minimal shoes, and you've got a fast-tracked recipe for injury.

My suggestion is to start out in cushioned shoes and actively try to learn good running mechanics. There's any number of books, websites, running clubs and coaches that can help with that. That approach both addresses the problem of a poor stride while giving some protection while your body is adjusting to the stress of running.

When I started running again 10 years ago, I was plauged with injuries wearing cushioned shoes. Chronic shin splints, torn medial meniscus, near constant lower back pain. All cushioned shoes did was slow me down and keep me from running. When I finally got around to doing the research on minimalist running, I was 50lbs overweight(I still am overweight, albeit not as much). Since making the switch, I've had zero issues with shin splints, can run father, faster and with less pain, and different, more easily dealt with injury-muscle overuse vs tendon injury and joint damage. If I'd gone this route from the beginning, I probably wouldn't have torn the meniscus, and almost certainly wouldn't have dealt with 3+ years of chronic shin splints.

That said, are a super minimalist shoe the right way to start out? I'd agree with you on that. A good transition shoe, like the Nike Free, or a similar shoe is where to start. After that, you still need to pay attention to mileage; start SMALL. Very Small. But having been through all of this, I'd do it the way I'm saying now, having lived through the injuries and the misery and hating it, to fixing issues masked by crappy over-cushioned garbage shoes.

So this is the first year I am going to try running in the winter. What should I get for gear?

Living in Ottawa, I expect to have to deal with a lot of snow and slush. I already have a pair of GoreTeck socks I plan on wearing.

Stupid phone.

Jonman wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I'll take the opposite tack on getting into running. I think that if you're starting out, you're in the best position to start minimalist, as that will give you better form down the road. Heavily cushioned shoes can mask a bad stride, particularly heel striking by absorbing some of the shock that gets passed up into knees/hips/lower back. The sooner a runner can ditch that bad habit, the better.

First off, I agree that cushioned shoes can mask stride problems.

But I disagree that newbie runners are better served by going minimalist, for two reasons. (1) - there's musculo-skeletal adaptation that takes place over the first year or so of running that strengthens your joints, making them more capable of bearing the impact loads, and (2) newbie runners are more likely to have a bad stride.

Compound those two issues together by throwing a new, and possible overweight, runner into a pair of minimal shoes, and you've got a fast-tracked recipe for injury.

My suggestion is to start out in cushioned shoes and actively try to learn good running mechanics. There's any number of books, websites, running clubs and coaches that can help with that. That approach both addresses the problem of a poor stride while giving some protection while your body is adjusting to the stress of running.

Well that's what I've done. I've started out in a pair of entry-level cushioned running shoes and am up to managing 5k now. I paid a lot of attention to trying to learn good form from day one and am fairly happy with how I'm settling into my stride. I only get the barest twinges from my shins after running and most of the muscle ache I get is in my buttocks and hamstrings which I believe is a Good Thing.

I'm going to try out the sandshoes on Saturday and see how I go.

Thermal underwear, a good wicking variety. After that, a good knit cap and some gloves. Waterproof/water resitant shoes are also a good thing to have if you anticipate running in slush and other muck.

I'm just trying to get through the Zombies, Run! 5k training program before I decide if I even want to keep running. I'm about 30-40 pounds overweight(could probably lose 20 more after that if I really want to kill myself dieting) and just doing this on the treadmill for now as I hate being outside when its cold.(its been in the 40s in Minnesota the last couple weeks)

Rainsmercy wrote:

I'm just trying to get through the Zombies, Run! 5k training program before I decide if I even want to keep running. I'm about 30-40 pounds overweight(could probably lose 20 more after that if I really want to kill myself dieting) and just doing this on the treadmill for now as I hate being outside when its cold.(its been in the 40s in Minnesota the last couple weeks)

I've been running in temps in the mid to high 30s in just a wicking base layer and a cotton tracksuit, and I'm from Australia. Once you start moving you warm up quickly.

mudbunny wrote:

So this is the first year I am going to try running in the winter. What should I get for gear?

Living in Ottawa, I expect to have to deal with a lot of snow and slush. I already have a pair of GoreTeck socks I plan on wearing.

AnimeJ mentioned this, but for me something to cover my head and some gloves (I buy the cheap knit gloves that cost a couple bucks and look like kids gloves till you put them on.) IMAGE(http://www.lulusoso.com/upload/20120305/magic_knit_stretch_gloves.jpg) are the two biggest things for keeping warm. I'm good in shorts till it gets down into the 50s. I don't generally use a layer under my sweats until it's down in the 30s. You should feel slightly chilly when you walk out the door, you'll warm up quickly.

Running at night while it's snowing out is one of my favorite things. So peaceful.

mudbunny wrote:

So this is the first year I am going to try running in the winter. What should I get for gear?

Living in Ottawa, I expect to have to deal with a lot of snow and slush. I already have a pair of GoreTeck socks I plan on wearing.

I've been paranoid to run outdoors in the winter since my Uncle did his Tib&Fib slipping on some ice, on the path. I'm lucky my Fibula is intact.

MB, do you need a referral to get into the U of O clinic? or can you walk-in?

Ghostship wrote:

MB, do you need a referral to get into the U of O clinic? or can you walk-in?

According to their website (http://www.uottawa.ca/health/service...) you don't need a referral unless it is for an orthopedic surgeon.

I have a couple minor loathes from my afternoon run today.

1. I loathe it when dogs come out of nowhere and yip/bark right next to you. I already have enough adrenalin going and the super-surprise type of additional adrenalin spike is not pleasant. I hate it and it happens all the time. Did I mention that I don't like dogs? The only reason I can figure out why they're the most popular pet is that they are the most anthropomorphizeable. I get it that people like them. I get it. Just keep them quiet, on a leash, and out of my face.

2. I loathe it when people in vehicles stop for you when there isn't a stop sign or a cross walk. They think they're being nice, but all they do is hold up traffic and make me feel like an asshole. In most cases, it would have been faster for me if they would have just kept going. I think the solution is to turn my back to the traffic while I keep an eye on things. It's kind of annoying that I have to do that, though.

/rant

I too loathe unleashed dogs. I had one take a chunk out of my knee one year when I was a teen. Personally, I'd probably kick one if it came up on me aggressively these days.

AnimeJ wrote:

I too loathe unleashed dogs. I had one take a chunk out of my knee one year when I was a teen. Personally, I'd probably kick one if it came up on me aggressively these days.

I've never had any bad or threatening experiences like that, fortunately. Anyways, it's the little yippy dogs that are the worst offenders. I think that because they're small people don't feel the need to leash them. It makes me want to do this (I don't, of course):

*I was going to post the Snuff Box video where he kicks the tiny dogs, but after contemplating it for awhile, I feel kind of bad, so I won't* Anyways, you know the one.

Yes, since I own two smaller dogs that are both kept on leashes when outside, I appreciate you not posting those videos:)

Yeah, it's very dark humor. Thanks for leashing them and putting up with my rant.