EA's Origin DD service (not that Origin)

To be honest, just having a store front* with good deals on occasion where I can redownload games doesn't bother me in the least.

[size=10]*Amazon[/size]

Also I would like to think it's more incentive to further improve the service, and keep it at a good quality of service, for customers both upstream and downstream.

As much as gamers 'boycott' things, if better service is going to get a game launching on origin as opposed to some other DD service, then I'd like to think EA would go for that and invest in origin development, rather than picking up scraps thrown to them.

So I decided to give Origin a chance after I learned that they were activating codes from older games. So I got my huge pile of key codes, downloaded Origin and.........

My guess is 90% wont work. Even some of the games folks are able to get approved wont work for me. At this point the only games they will activate are games that came out 10 minutes ago apparently. Until they can figure this part out I guess I will shelve Origin again.

The store has been down all day, and there really isnt many features that make me go wow.

-4 EA

+4 Valve

Yes, there does seem to be a certain date after which all codes are origin codes, and before that they're just normal cd keys.

If the back catalogue did work it would be a great bonus, but I can appreciate it being a fair bit of work sorting it all out (for instance all the old old games that work on physical CD copy protection that is out of maintenance) and importing the valid CD keys, and so on.

Valve on the other hand, has brought in all their CD keys from day one, so it's natural for them.

I don't see the lack of importing old titles as a negative, so much as the absence of a positive they could have. Nothing has been taken away from me as my old games operate as they always have.

The scope that Origin has right now is encouraging. Getting more publishers is great. It must be a tightrope to navigate which features are "must have" in order not to turn off too large a player base. It looks like it could be a strong marketplace, they just have to compete against the expectations set forth by Steam users right now.

I think the back catalogue support will probably come down to one thing, would it earn anything for them. I'm sure there's a modestly sized amount of people who would like a GOG-like support for older games (*), the requirements to bring them up to modern standards and support them on modern systems are fairly substantial. EA isn't a company I can see hiring on people to raid the archives for the sourcecode of dozens of games, and to hack them to behave now, just so people can get them on Origin by putting their old keys in or buying new copies for pocket change.

*Although EA seems happy enough to work with GOG, perhaps selling TW2 was testing the waters for EA-GOG games to sell on Origin.

Scratched wrote:

I think the back catalogue support will probably come down to one thing, would it earn anything for them. I'm sure there's a modestly sized amount of people who would like a GOG-like support for older games (*), the requirements to bring them up to modern standards and support them on modern systems are fairly substantial. EA isn't a company I can see hiring on people to raid the archives for the sourcecode of dozens of games, and to hack them to behave now, just so people can get them on Origin by putting their old keys in or buying new copies for pocket change.

*Although EA seems happy enough to work with GOG, perhaps selling TW2 was testing the waters for EA-GOG games to sell on Origin.

I think for me other than forcing me to use their crappy service because they wont sell on steam I want something that encourages me to use it. Allowing me to activate games from 2004 and on doesnt sound like such a bad thing

You've kind of got two approaches there. On one hand the service is crappy and they withdrew their games from another store (which is disputed) so you don't want to use it, on the other you want them to bait you into using it with old games, which presumably you already own so no new money going to them.

It may not earn money for them [em]directly[/em], but it is exactly the kind of move that builds trust and respect from the users. That's part of why people are cool with Blizzard having their own online store separate from anywhere else: among their first steps in setting the store up was putting their older (still supported) games up on it, including letting you enter your existing (really old) CD keys and re-downloading because your CDs are dusty, scratched, and broken. They gave the desirable service first (register your old games and download them any time you want!) to draw users to the system and set them up to buy digital copies of other stuff as it came out.

Even if they'd done that later, I think whenever they did it would have been a boost to peoples' already high opinions of Blizzard.

And, as a pretty thorough hater of Origin, such a move would give them a big boost in my eyes. I'd consider giving it another shot some time soon. (Especially if they were to recognize the key from my Steam-bought Mirror's Edge, and allow me to download it from their store. That would let me buy the Mirror's Edge DLC that I was never able to play because they didn't bother making it compatible with the Steam version, much less making the DLC available on Steam.)

In short: It may not ring up new sales, but it's exactly the kind of thing that they need to do in order to develop respect in the community.

I'm happy to see some competition. I had a problem on Origin when I purchased "Strike at Karkand" where my purchase didn't show on my account. They fixed it pretty quickly and the support people were actually helpful.

Having a flagship game require your software service is how Steam became big, I see no reason to boycott or get mad at EA over Origin on this. Half life 2 introduced people to a much simpler Steam than we have now. I hope Origin continues to grow features.

mrwynd wrote:

I hope Origin continues to grow features.

I'm probably channelling Gabe Newell here, but that's what EA needs. Origin needs to be a service that improves and responds more than a static 'thing'.

Scratched wrote:

You've kind of got two approaches there. On one hand the service is crappy and they withdrew their games from another store (which is disputed) so you don't want to use it, on the other you want them to bait you into using it with old games, which presumably you already own so no new money going to them.

At the moment other than forcing me to use Origin for Mass Effect and Crysis I see no point in going to them. Then add on how EA treats customers and my personal experience with them and yeah I kinda expect them to do something out of the box to win my dollars. I dont know about you but I consider my gaming dollars to be something important, I expect something for the money I give them. If tommorow Steam and every other gaming service took away what I find fun then I walk.

The benefit to EA is that by doing something that doesnt generate new money for them it helps customers form a bond of trust and interest that makes me want to do business with them. Otherwise how can they really compete with Steam at this point. Remember at this point Steam has them beat in basicly every possible way. (at least that i can see) If they really want to be a force in this market then they need to give me reasons to use their services other than horarding their games on their service. Adding more developers is good, but by allowing me to add my PIN's which is money I have already given EA then its a win-win for us both.

And as far as who is at fault in that struggle I really dont care at this point, I love steam and have thousands invested in their service. Time and time again they have won my trust by providing an excellent service. Its really up to EA to show me why I should be using their service. Because I like Mass Effect I am willing to enterain this longer and see what they do, but frankly at this point I have crossed Crysis 2 and Mass Effect 3 off my list for this year. I do hope they get it together and find ways to bring customers in to their site. But alas it appears yet again EA is still EA.

I'm still not buying Mass Effect 3, even though ME2 is one of my favorite games. I just don't want Origin on my system. I still think it's sad that they were able to force themselves on so many people just by requiring it for a couple of games. Origin offers me exactly nothing over an Amazon direct download.

So far there's exactly one game that requires origin even if you buy them from somewhere else, BF3, and ME3 will be the second. For every other EA game you can buy, install and use it with no connection to origin. I don't know if it's just ranting (who doesn't like a good rant?), but there seems to be a bit of 'the lady doth protest too much', too much noise over what I don't see as that big a problem (I don't think any existing service is flawless). Explain it to me.

Approaching the discussion from another angle: If you were king for a day at EA, what would you do differently? Saying just "Shut down origin" isn't an answer, you have to provide an alternative. And steam isn't that alternative.

Here's just one of my problems with Origin:

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

[size=9]You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application [meaning the Origin software] usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.[/size]

You consent to allow EA to collect information about your operating system, software and hardware to let them better advertise to you, and so any EA subsidiary or partner can use information specifically keyed to you, for basically whatever purpose they want. There is no opt out. Your only option is to not install Origin, not play BF3, nor Mass Effect 3, nor, for all I know, SWTOR.

If I were king for a day at EA, I would imbue Origin with some kind of value to players, because right now it has none. ZERO. The ability to download software is not a feature, a web browser can do that. I would also allow people to opt out of data collection, or opt in when it is needed for specific purposes (software updates and support). Instead of holding titles hostage on Origin, I would instead offer some kind of bonuses for players who use Origin. Maybe special cosmetic items in game, or discounts tied to using Origin. Ubisoft is an example of doing this right, or at least better than EA. Uplay may be lame, but they at least offer rewards to offset the inconvenience of them requiring it.

I know I'm an outlier on this specific point, too, but it still shocks me how many people are willing to blithely give away all kinds of personal data, getting nothing in return or even putting up with inconvenience, so that online companies can make money from it.

I'm not ranting, nor am I playing the Queen in Hamlet's Mouse-trap. The simple fact is that I don't like the way EA treats its loyal customers. They are a textbook soulless corporation. I don't trust EA, and I especially don't trust them with software that runs continuously while I'm playing games.

An example of a company that I do trust, one that is not merely a soulless corporation but goes out of its way to make its customers happy is Amazon. An example I could give of a software publisher would be Activision Blizzard, though they have pulled a few stunts in the past few years that have eroded my trust.

Interesting that you mention Amazon, take a read of this and make parallels with what EA do. As far as I treat Amazon, I assume they're tracking everything I'm doing on their site and you need to go to lengths to avoid that tracking.

This would seem to be a support thing, that as you say they make their customers happy. That said, while there's stories of substandard outsourced EA support, there's tales where they will fix things up and go the extra mile throwing in free stuff and discounts. Bringing in another company, there's common reports of Valve support taking days for a simple query and missing the point when they do respond.

Let's not forget Steam tracks system information although that's still opt-in if your system is picked for that month's hardware survey.

Scratched wrote:

I think the back catalogue support will probably come down to one thing, would it earn anything for them. I'm sure there's a modestly sized amount of people who would like a GOG-like support for older games (*), the requirements to bring them up to modern standards and support them on modern systems are fairly substantial. EA isn't a company I can see hiring on people to raid the archives for the sourcecode of dozens of games, and to hack them to behave now, just so people can get them on Origin by putting their old keys in or buying new copies for pocket change.

Depending on how far back you go, you don't have to do a ton of work to get them to work. Most of the Maxis titles I've thrown at my Win 7 x64 machine basically require some fiddling with Windows' compatibility settings, but it's not that hard. Older titles are pretty much in GOG's domain and that's primarily using DOSBox.

There are a few problems with EA's modern-ish (anything in 2000) back catalog though:

1) Licensed music. This is a big issue for them in the sports games (and possibly The Sims 2 since that used Simlish covers by various artists). They'd either have to replace the music, remove it, or re-negotiate the license on a lot of games which probably makes them cost-prohibitive.
2) Multiplayer. EA regularly kills matchmaking servers every 2-3 years after a game is released. Making some of the older games available without multiplayer might not go over very well.
3) More of the same. There's not a whole lot different between most of their sports titles aside from player rosters and stats changes. Is there any reason to re-release these? Would it damage sales of new iterations?

shoptroll wrote:

Let's not forget Steam tracks system information although that's still opt-in if your system is picked for that month's hardware survey.

It's not only opt-in, Steam shows you the information it gathers, and Valve aggregates the information and makes it easily accessible to customers at http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Amazon's privacy policy is actually quite instructive because it's a great example of the different approach used by the company. First, Amazon's policy explicitly states: "Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and we are not in the business of selling it to others." EA's privacy policy states no such thing, and only says "EA will never share your personally identifiable information with third parties without your consent." This is not comforting, coming from a company where "consent" can be as flimsy as "breaking the shrink wrap." It also says nothing about selling information. While it might have a similar meaning, EA is the kind of company where the difference between the words "selling" and "sharing" is significant.

Amazon's privacy policy explicitly states "you can always choose not to provide information." EA's is all-or-nothing--they will collect data about you.

Amazon's privacy policy is laid out in a friendly question and answer format, formatted to make it easy to read, with lots of links right there in the text to define specific terms. EA's privacy policy is pretty much a wall of text, legalese rather than plain English, in a small, low-contrast font that is difficult to read.

I can't go by "tales where they will fix things up and go the extra mile." My personal experience with EA has not been positive, and the general impression I get from people I know is that being customer oriented (or indeed, even employee oriented) is not a priority with them. I'm sure they employ individuals who will go out of their way to help people, but it is not a core company value with EA like it is with Amazon.

BadKen wrote:

It's not only opt-in, Steam shows you the information it gathers, and Valve aggregates the information and makes it easily accessible to customers at http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Right, but I always got the sense that was Valve being a bunch of NEEERRRDDDDSSSS and not simply to be transparent.

I doubt some games will ever see the light of day on Origin, considering Need For Speed: High Stakes requires a major fan-patch just to get it to install. Sadly, the work's been done by fans, but EA (like just about any other company) is too hard headed to implement a fan made solution. That game is pretty primitive, anyways.

Oh hey, look. Valve games are available on a competing service now (albeit with Steam activation required.)

So it's pretty much a retail key activation. The UK prices are equal to the steam store.

Hypatian wrote:

Oh hey, look. Valve games are available on a competing service now (albeit with Steam activation required.)

Oh man, now Valve is the devil for siding with Gamestop over all the other industry! :/

[edit] *Duoae hopes that the sarcasm is detected!

More fun with Origin

Late yesterday I fired up Origin and started seeing this error to greet me "HTTP URL Error Please Update Origin Server Unrecognizable" Error code 7049:102

And Amalur was uninstalled. Poof! Just like that. It said "ready to download" on the store page like I'd never installed it.

I did this three times today.

I can download it, install it, play it...everything's fine.

What's interesting is: I can even leave the Windows folders open so I can watch the Amalur files. Origin closes they stay. Origin gets reopened and I see that error and they blink out of existence and I'm back to seeing "ready to download" and Amalur is off my machine. I didn't know data could disappear that fast especially something like a 7 gig game but that's exactly what happened.

Now, I know Steam had problems at launch, but deleting an entire game installation because of a network error?

I'm confused.. one person's problem is systematic of everyone's. No system is perfect.. years later I can go into Valve forums on any given day and there are slews of people with problems..

Forum posts IMO have zero to do with overall functionality of anything. Hardly anyone that isnt experiencing problems will post.. "100% ok today! yeah!"

TheGameguru wrote:

Forum posts IMO have zero to do with overall functionality of anything. Hardly anyone that isnt experiencing problems will post.. "100% ok today! yeah!"

If you have an idea of total users than forum post complaints per user per day is a reasonable metric of customer satisfaction.

You have to admit though, that's one hell of a bug, especially for an easily reproducible one.

Another reason why it's good practice to backup your game files once they're downloaded, preferably in an archive format you can open without relying on an external server.

gregrampage wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Forum posts IMO have zero to do with overall functionality of anything. Hardly anyone that isnt experiencing problems will post.. "100% ok today! yeah!"

If you have an idea of total users than forum post complaints per user per day is a reasonable metric of customer satisfaction.

You have to admit though, that's one hell of a bug, especially for an easily reproducible one.

It doesnt happen to me? I'm so confused..

But yes.. sure you strive to have zero complaints on your forum.. has anyone or anything achieved that? Is Origin way above average or below average relative to its total user base?

I have no clue..

TheGameguru wrote:

It doesnt happen to me? I'm so confused..

But yes.. sure you strive to have zero complaints on your forum.. has anyone or anything achieved that? Is Origin way above average or below average relative to its total user base?

I have no clue..

Right, it's reproducible for that user. Clearly something in their setup/configuration is triggering the bug in Origin, it's not widespread. It's just crazy that it's even possible to delete all of the files.

Regarding the complaints, I just was trying to say that while we should keep perspective we shouldn't dismiss them outright either. It would be interesting to compare the complaint rates vs Steam. It's probably the case that Steam issues just don't make the news like Origin ones do.