Windows 8

Pinning to the start bar is the main reason I upgraded to Windows 7.

SixteenBlue wrote:
Pinning to the start bar is the main reason I upgraded to Windows 7.

That was such a great change. Then Steam added a Hot List which meant I no longer needed to keep a "Games" folder with shortcuts embedded in the toolbar.

SixteenBlue wrote:
Pinning to the start bar is the main reason I upgraded to Windows 7.

Every time I show that feature to someone in the office whose XP laptop gets replaced with 7, their minds are blown and two days later, they're telling me how they couldn't live without that feature now.

That's the thing, the changes to the taskbar, middle clicking, decent jump lists in some apps, do make a nice difference. It's a light touch that works with a mouse UI, and also they were aiming at touch (you would drag a jump list out of an program tile).

Stardock has a free Start Menu add-on:
http://www.stardock.com/products/sta...

I haven't checked it out yet.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Stardock has a free Start Menu add-on:
http://www.stardock.com/products/sta...

I haven't checked it out yet.


I just installed it, and I like it. It's a simple mod (the 'all apps' and search in a non-fullscreen start menu), but it's along the lines I was thinking of a compromise between old and new. Organisable groups rather than a list of everything where all you sort by is text.

I saw this linked off slashdot, and I think it's a good illustration of some people who use windows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4bo...

Scratched wrote:
I saw this linked off slashdot, and I think it's a good illustration of some people who use windows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4bo...

If that isn't all the proof they need for why Windows 8 needs to be delayed and massively retooled, I don't know what is. I'm seriously going to try this with my Mom I think (who is still on Vista and loves it).

As one of the comments to that video mentioned, that wasn't the whole video. Once he figured out that moving to the corners is how your bring up the menus, he brought up the charms menu, and seemed to get the hang of navigation fairly quickly. Heck, I had to hand-hold my grandparents through their intro to Win7. You can't just torture the elderly by making them figure out a new OS by themselves.

Not saying I'm popping wood for Win8, just that the video is a bit misleading.

In other news, as I use it more, the interface bothers me less. I still don't plan on upgrading my personal machine or recommending we start pushing 8 to our desktops.

My boss was in Vegas for a MS conference (DevConnections, maybe? Can't recall) and was impressed with Server 8 despite the Metro UI.
The presenter assured everyone you would be able to disable Metro in Server. He also indicated he felt the desktop OS was not ready for prime time, but they were very proud of the new Server iteration.

So I think I'm going to try a little experiment this week. I'm going to toss the Consumer Preview on an old Core 2 Duo desktop system I have at work. Whenever a user comes by my office with a question for me (happens about a half dozen times a day), I'm going to ask them if they aren't in a rush, to sit down at it and try a few things out. I've put some time into Windows 8 but my impressions are still new and I'm curious what some of my users will think sitting down with it cold. I will also grant that we don't yet know what the Pro version of 8 is going to be like and if a lot of the current maligned Metro features will still be required in it. Between them and trying it out with my Mom, I'm very curious to see what some unprompted cold impressions are like from "average" users.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
So I think I'm going to try a little experiment this week. I'm going to toss the Consumer Preview on an old Core 2 Duo desktop system I have at work. Whenever a user comes by my office with a question for me (happens about a half dozen times a day), I'm going to ask them if they aren't in a rush, to sit down at it and try a few things out. I've put some time into Windows 8 but my impressions are still new and I'm curious what some of my users will think sitting down with it cold. I will also grant that we don't yet know what the Pro version of 8 is going to be like and if a lot of the current maligned Metro features will still be required in it. Between them and trying it out with my Mom, I'm very curious to see what some unprompted cold impressions are like from "average" users.

That'll be interesting! Keep us posted.

There's an easier one step solution to avoiding Metro:

1) Don't install Windows 8.

Hypatian wrote:
There's an easier one step solution to avoiding Metro:

1) Don't install Windows 8.


An option for techy people like us maybe, but less of an option if you buy an OEM PC in a box.

Scratched wrote:
An option for techy people like us maybe, but less of an option if you buy an OEM PC in a box.

"Downgrade" option.

shoptroll wrote:
Scratched wrote:
An option for techy people like us maybe, but less of an option if you buy an OEM PC in a box.
"Downgrade" option.

Again, we know about it, but I'm not sure the random "I just want to buy a PC" person on the street does.

Only if it gains a major stink about how metro/W8 sucks, and only if the retailer offers it up front, I'm thinking places like dell online where you customise it. Even so, it's something the customer has to specifically know to do.

Vista had lots of downgrade programs easily available. I suspect you'll see something similar.

I keep expecting people to start pushing the tagline, "W8 4 9". Maybe it's too lol-speakish.

Malor wrote:
I keep expecting people to start pushing the tagline, "W8 4 9". Maybe it's too lol-speakish.

Well W7 doesn't hit extended support status until 2014 so they're required to keep patching it with security and hotfixes until that time. So it's perfectly ok to ride W7 until W9 is announced.

The thing that makes me nervous is that Metro will most likely be around in W9, possibly even more required. So while I'm not looking at W8 for my personal use, I am thinking that I'll be behind the curve if I don't play with a Metro system before W9 arrives, which for all intents and purposes will be a required update at home due to security patches and support stuff.

I am concerned about the general uncertainty regarding this OS release. I feel like MS has drawn a big line in the sand and I'm not sure there's enough certainty yet to really say whether or not the Windows ecosystem is going to move forward with them or buck the trend. Is this the actual future of the OS or is it just a weird experiment/bump on the road to something else? I can't say I feel like they're presenting a confident vision of the future of the OS with the way desktop and mobile computing are stitched together based on the reports I've read.

I guess I ought to make a VM and give this thing a spin and see for myself.

shoptroll wrote:
I am concerned about the general uncertainty regarding this OS release. I feel like MS has drawn a big line in the sand and I'm not sure there's enough certainty yet to really say whether or not the Windows ecosystem is going to move forward with them or buck the trend. Is this the actual future of the OS or is it just a weird experiment/bump on the road to something else? I can't say I feel like they're presenting a confident vision of the future of the OS with the way desktop and mobile computing are stitched together based on the reports I've read.

Pretty much. It feels like they're saying "Metro is awesome for everyone because we say so" and then jamming their fingers in their ears. I don't see tablets suddenly appearing everywhere (yes they're becoming more popular, no they're not so ubiquitous that a one-size-fits-all OS works) and I don't see 3rd party hacks to get your desktop back as a desirable solution, and I can't honestly see MS stepping down. The reason I don't see them backing down is that they haven't presented anything as an in-between that doesn't make W8 desktop look like W7 with a fancy service pack.

Scratched wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
I am concerned about the general uncertainty regarding this OS release. I feel like MS has drawn a big line in the sand and I'm not sure there's enough certainty yet to really say whether or not the Windows ecosystem is going to move forward with them or buck the trend. Is this the actual future of the OS or is it just a weird experiment/bump on the road to something else? I can't say I feel like they're presenting a confident vision of the future of the OS with the way desktop and mobile computing are stitched together based on the reports I've read.

Pretty much. It feels like they're saying "Metro is awesome for everyone because we say so" and then jamming their fingers in their ears. I don't see tablets suddenly appearing everywhere (yes they're becoming more popular, no they're not so ubiquitous that a one-size-fits-all OS works) and I don't see 3rd party hacks to get your desktop back as a desirable solution, and I can't honestly see MS stepping down. The reason I don't see them backing down is that they haven't presented anything as an in-between that doesn't make W8 desktop look like W7 with a fancy service pack.

The mistake is trying to marry tablet and desktop OS into an unified UI. They should focus on unified OS functionality but keep the UI separate. Is that more work? sure.. but wouldn't it be awesome to have a single Office 2012 app magically have two distinct but 100% functional interfaces depending on if it detected a Windows 8 Tablet device running Windows 8 vs. a Windows 8 PC/Laptop running Windows 8.

You'd think there'd be some way to unify the app base between tablet UI and desktop a bit better. Instead of having a full start screen replacement on a PC, you could have a third mode where Metro Apps would work on the traditional desktop. You know, they'd run in windows. Or like the still born gadgets of Vista/7.

If they went that route, they'd need to make more UI look and feel changes to the desktop to make it feel less jarring. Flatten it out, remove the Chrome/Aero feel.

The reason they probably didn't do that is that they have no hope of ever getting all the legacy software to still not look jarring with the old Windows feel.

Microsoft, in Windows 8, wants to deprecate windows.

The sheer insanity in that idea is mind-boggling. Guys? It's called Windows.

TheGameguru wrote:
The mistake is trying to marry tablet and desktop OS into an unified UI. They should focus on unified OS functionality but keep the UI separate. Is that more work? sure.. but wouldn't it be awesome to have a single Office 2012 app magically have two distinct but 100% functional interfaces depending on if it detected a Windows 8 Tablet device running Windows 8 vs. a Windows 8 PC/Laptop running Windows 8.

Completely agree. Although it is interesting that Apple is slowly heading toward a unification of OS X and iOS as well, at least the parts that are easy to do right now (ie. gestures) while preserving the established "desktop" metaphor.

It is a shame that the Metro stuff is so off-putting. There really is some other neat ideas going on under the hood, and it's very interesting to see the OS tightly coupling with web services like Flickr and Facebook. There's some really good potential for that to be applied to things other than photo and status sharing I think.

EDIT: It's always interesting reading Paul Thurrot's WinSuperSite after hearing him talk on Windows Weekly. He came off pretty bullish on the most recent WW episode while Mary Jo Foley was a little more conservative about the Consumer Preview. However, this article definitely reveals that he has some good reservations about the new OS and raises some great points about the state of it and the ultimate impact on users. Although, having read it I'm now wondering how much criss-crossing I would have to do to use a Win8 PC. I'm seeing reports that all the major web browsers are adding Metro compatability. Can I still launch them from the desktop app or do I need to exit out back to the Start Screen to surf the web?

shoptroll wrote:
I'm seeing reports that all the major web browsers are adding Metro compatability. Can I still launch them from the desktop app or do I need to exit out back to the Start Screen to surf the web?

Both Firefox and Chrome are apparently going to be in a third class of application that allows two faces, a Metro face and a desktop face. So you install one program and have them available in Metro and on the desk.

MannishBoy wrote:
Both Firefox and Chrome are apparently going to be in a third class of application that allows two faces, a Metro face and a desktop face. So you install one program and have them available in Metro and on the desk.

That's good to know, and seems like the smart thing to do. I was just worried that I'd have to keep track of two installed instances for every app that worked on Metro or the desktop.

shoptroll wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Both Firefox and Chrome are apparently going to be in a third class of application that allows two faces, a Metro face and a desktop face. So you install one program and have them available in Metro and on the desk.

That's good to know, and seems like the smart thing to do. I was just worried that I'd have to keep track of two installed instances for every app that worked on Metro or the desktop.

Not sure if MS caved to the logic of this, or if this was just something they'd not announced as an option. But the Firefox setup was covered a bit back by the usual source blogs, and the Chrome news hit today I think.

What I wonder if there will be plug ins/extensions in these browsers, or if they'll be limited in Metro just like IE?

MannishBoy wrote:
What I wonder if there will be plug ins/extensions in these browsers, or if they'll be limited in Metro just like IE?

I know Firefox has a "Safe Mode" which just disables extensions (not sure about plug-ins). I imagine that would be invoked by default if you launch the browser from Metro.

Anyone running Windows 8 having any issues with LoL? It keeps crashing after patching and it's driving me bananas.

Malor wrote:
Microsoft, in Windows 8, wants to deprecate windows.

The sheer insanity in that idea is mind-boggling. Guys? It's called Windows.

They haven't issued the press release yet but we'll be hearing about Microsoft Metrows 8 (tm) soon.

New Nvidia drivers for W8: http://downloads.guru3d.com/download...