Windows 8

I hope they renew that $40 deal when 8.1 comes out.
It is time to byte the bullet and upgrade.

fangblackbone wrote:

It is time to byte the bullet and upgrade.

I see what you did there.

=)

Is there a way to disable the feature where you move the mouse to a corner of the screen to open the charms? I like Windows 8 for the most part, but it bugs the heck out of me when I move my mouse cursor from one screen to another and it gets stuck in the corner because Windows thinks I want the charms.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Is there a way to disable the feature where you move the mouse to a corner of the screen to open the charms? I like Windows 8 for the most part, but it bugs the heck out of me when I move my mouse cursor from one screen to another and it gets stuck in the corner because Windows thinks I want the charms.

Seems like I saw that 8.1 addresses that somehow.

Start8 and Startisback can both disable the Charms hotspots.

Keynote for Build 2013. Highlights for me so far -

  • Boot to desktop
  • Start menu back on desktop - overlays the desktop (can select either tiles or the 'all apps' view)
  • Can snap multiple apps at multiple sizes, across multiple monitors.
  • Multiple monitors now allow dpi assigned per monitor. Excellent news for me as I run on a Mac Pro Retina and two externals - can scale each appropriately and no more having to rescale the laptop monitor every time I disconnect it.
  • Unified search.
  • Some pretty cool tools for devs in VS 2013, if I ever had time to do desktop stuff.
  • IE to support webgl finally - both in browser and winjs.

Ars likes Windows 8.1.

I still have that upgrade I bought during the promo. I'll install it as soon as Windows Blue ships.

I am looking forward to 8.1. So far I'm pretty happy with 8, only negatives are that Nvidia Optimus doesn't play too nice with it and battery life. If I boot up with an external monitor attached, explorer.exe uses the dedicated GPU until I log back in with the monitor disconnected. Also if I shut down with the monitor connected and turn it back on with the monitor disconnected, I get a BSoD. Last, it seems to use slightly more battery power than Windows 7 did.

DX11.2 coming as well: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...

So that'll be likely ignored by most developers because it's essentially like tying DX10 to Vista back when everyone was still using XP. I wonder if they'll do another platform update to bring what they can to older versions like with 11.1, the parts not tied to a new driver model.

Scratched wrote:

DX11.2 coming as well: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...

So that'll be likely ignored by most developers because it's essentially like tying DX10 to Vista back when everyone was still using XP. I wonder if they'll do another platform update to bring what they can to older versions like with 11.1, the parts not tied to a new driver model.

Have they actually said they're not releasing it for Win 7? I assumed it was just first being released in Windows 8.1. I also assume it's available for Xbox One.

I find this interesting: Ballmer at Build: Microsoft Moving Windows to Rapid Release Cycle

There's a whole bunch of questions I can think of about how they're going to manage that.

How do they support all the different versions. I doubt they'll go for a "long term support" versus "cutting edge" split.
Do they have one big version and a number of point releases, or do they go 9, 10, 11, etc, yearly, essentially replacing service packs.
How do they charge for it.
How stable is the base "windows" platform? What's compatibility like between versions.
Is there a policy for what gets backported, or do you assume everyone upgrades and those that don't are left behind.

Balmer also talks about going from software to services, but at that point don't you build a dumb client and a rich server, essentially towards a chromebook style device/OS (although that might be an extreme example), but with one relatively stable client that lives for a long time and is kept updated.

Does anyone do that service for the OS itself, rather than apps that run on the OS base or support for the OS? Apart from specific things locked to a certain platform, which are becoming less and less, isn't the OS becoming a commodity now or "soon"?

Software as a service it's probably like this year's Office 365. It has a full download version of Office, but only for a years license.

EDIT: GG Swype correction

Scratched wrote:

Does anyone do that service for the OS itself, rather than apps that run on the OS base or support for the OS? Apart from specific things locked to a certain platform, which are becoming less and less, isn't the OS becoming a commodity now or "soon"?

I think MS would probably fit it's model with both consumer side and business side by just moving the OS upgrades to a combo of free point releases and approximately annual inexpensive upgrades similar to Apple.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Is there a way to disable the feature where you move the mouse to a corner of the screen to open the charms? I like Windows 8 for the most part, but it bugs the heck out of me when I move my mouse cursor from one screen to another and it gets stuck in the corner because Windows thinks I want the charms.

Yes, there is a setting in the "PC & Devices" section of "Change PC Settings" where you can turn off the upper right corner behavior and also the upper left corner. The setting appears to be global for all monitors if you're running multi monitors.

TexasRay wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Is there a way to disable the feature where you move the mouse to a corner of the screen to open the charms? I like Windows 8 for the most part, but it bugs the heck out of me when I move my mouse cursor from one screen to another and it gets stuck in the corner because Windows thinks I want the charms.

Yes, there is a setting in the "PC & Devices" section of "Change PC Settings" where you can turn off the upper right corner behavior and also the upper left corner. The setting appears to be global for all monitors if you're running multi monitors.

Hmm I don't have a setting for "PC & Devices" though I do have "Devices", but within that I don't see where to turn off the behavior. Can you elaborate?

I laughed at today's PA:
IMAGE(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-RrTj8nL/0/950x10000/i-RrTj8nL-950x10000.jpg)

Nevin73 wrote:

I laughed at today's PA:

Gabe's a proponent of the Surface Pro, too.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Hmm I don't have a setting for "PC & Devices" though I do have "Devices", but within that I don't see where to turn off the behavior. Can you elaborate?

This is a new setting in Windows 8.1, I believe. Here's how I got there:
1. Swipe in from the right side.
2. Click/tap "Settings"
3. At the bottom, click/tap "Change PC Settings"
4. At the top of the list in the options is "PC & Devices", tap/click that.
5. In the resulting menu, there is "Corners & Edges"

From there, you have the following options:
App Switching
-"Allow switching between recent apps" (on/off).
-"When I swipe from the left edge, switch between my recent apps instead of showing a list of them" (on/off)

Both of those were available in standard Windows 8, I believe.

With Windows 8.1, they have added "Corner Navigation" below that which offers the following choices:
-"When I point to the upper-right corner, show Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings" (on/off)
-"When I click the upper-left corner, switch between my recent apps" (on/off)

Nevin73 wrote:

I laughed at today's PA:
..snip...

I'm very curious how this will be received. Depending on your attitude toward Microsoft, it may be taken as nothing more than "here's your effing start button", because ALL it does is show you to the start menu. However, what is VERY interesting to me is that if you turn on the option to show your desktop background behind the start menu, it really changes the feel of the start menu. It is hard to explain, but makes it less jarring of a switch when you are primarily using desktop mode. Just that little bit of consistency makes it feel more a part of the desktop experience. Also, I think it should be the default setting instead of an obscure choice from the personalization menu of the settings options for the start menu.

Yeah, everything I've seen about 8.1 led me to a similar conclusion as PA. I don't see myself removing Start8 at all.

TexasRay wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Hmm I don't have a setting for "PC & Devices" though I do have "Devices", but within that I don't see where to turn off the behavior. Can you elaborate?

This is a new setting in Windows 8.1, I believe. Here's how I got there:
1. Swipe in from the right side.
2. Click/tap "Settings"
3. At the bottom, click/tap "Change PC Settings"
4. At the top of the list in the options is "PC & Devices", tap/click that.
5. In the resulting menu, there is "Corners & Edges"

From there, you have the following options:
App Switching
-"Allow switching between recent apps" (on/off).
-"When I swipe from the left edge, switch between my recent apps instead of showing a list of them" (on/off)

Both of those were available in standard Windows 8, I believe.

With Windows 8.1, they have added "Corner Navigation" below that which offers the following choices:
-"When I point to the upper-right corner, show Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings" (on/off)
-"When I click the upper-left corner, switch between my recent apps" (on/off)

Ok I haven't updated to 8.1 yet, so I don't have that PC & Devices menu. The last two you mentioned currently sit under the "General" tab. I'll look for the new options after I update, thanks!

MannishBoy wrote:
Scratched wrote:

DX11.2 coming as well: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...

So that'll be likely ignored by most developers because it's essentially like tying DX10 to Vista back when everyone was still using XP. I wonder if they'll do another platform update to bring what they can to older versions like with 11.1, the parts not tied to a new driver model.

Have they actually said they're not releasing it for Win 7? I assumed it was just first being released in Windows 8.1. I also assume it's available for Xbox One.

DX 11.2 will be available for XBox One.

I could see them doing a platform update for Win 8 like they did with Direct3D 11.1 for Win 7, but I'd be surprised if they did an update for Win 7.

shoptroll wrote:

I could see them doing a platform update for Win 8 like they did with Direct3D 11.1 for Win 7

It's in 8.1, no idea what their plans are for anyone who decides not to go to 8.1. Is that how they're labelling service packs now? I haven't heard anything about Win8 SP1 if that's a separate thing.

As for coming to Win7 (and Vista), it's right there in your article:

Microsoft has confirmed that DirectX 11.2, the next-generation version of its application programming interface (API) and hardware abstraction layer (HAL) for multimedia devices will be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and its Xbox One console.

Having said that they said the same about 11.1 initially. If it's coming to Win8.1, I assume it's down to the driver model rather than hardware capabilities, and of course with the xbox they control the software side absolutely and can do whatever they want with it.

Scratched wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

I could see them doing a platform update for Win 8 like they did with Direct3D 11.1 for Win 7

It's in 8.1, no idea what their plans are for anyone who decides not to go to 8.1. Is that how they're labelling service packs now? I haven't heard anything about Win8 SP1 if that's a separate thing.

I think they're not calling it a service pack because it's not a roll up of patches and fixes only, it includes a lot of functional upgrades and changes. I suspect that marketing decided that SPs bad, dot releases good.

They should have called it Windows 8 Plus! pack. Remember those?

MannishBoy wrote:
Scratched wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

I could see them doing a platform update for Win 8 like they did with Direct3D 11.1 for Win 7

It's in 8.1, no idea what their plans are for anyone who decides not to go to 8.1. Is that how they're labelling service packs now? I haven't heard anything about Win8 SP1 if that's a separate thing.

I think they're not calling it a service pack because it's not a roll up of patches and fixes only, it includes a lot of functional upgrades and changes. I suspect that marketing decided that SPs bad, dot releases good.

Microsoft is just shifting to the Apple and Google model, incremental updates every year or so. Not all that ground breaking. I am just happy to see that they are not charging for it.

parallaxview wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Scratched wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

I could see them doing a platform update for Win 8 like they did with Direct3D 11.1 for Win 7

It's in 8.1, no idea what their plans are for anyone who decides not to go to 8.1. Is that how they're labelling service packs now? I haven't heard anything about Win8 SP1 if that's a separate thing.

I think they're not calling it a service pack because it's not a roll up of patches and fixes only, it includes a lot of functional upgrades and changes. I suspect that marketing decided that SPs bad, dot releases good.

Microsoft is just shifting to the Apple and Google model, incremental updates every year or so. Not all that ground breaking. I am just happy to see that they are not charging for it.

With Ballmer saying recently that they're moving to 'rapid release', I don't think they've yet said how they're going to manage the pricing on each of these upgrades. Apple's works because they don't care too much about the OS side, they get their money from hardware. I'm not holding my breath for MS to drop the price of windows significantly excluding time limited promotions.

I think MS have a bit of a perception problem to get over if anything, when their new OS comes out there's always an expectation of upheaval and "now I've got to learn this new crap again", which makes people stay on xp for over a decade. If they want to get people on a regular (1-2 years) they've got to reduce barriers. I'd argue that windows at this stage in it's life needs to be a stable platform and not "Hey, here's this latest trend we're following. Enjoy!", or at least it's foundation needs to be stable, while adding on layers for new functionality.

That's before MS actually showing they can walk the walk that Ballmer is talking, rumours of a big reorganisation just throw everything up in the air. Fun times.

parallaxview wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Scratched wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

I could see them doing a platform update for Win 8 like they did with Direct3D 11.1 for Win 7

It's in 8.1, no idea what their plans are for anyone who decides not to go to 8.1. Is that how they're labelling service packs now? I haven't heard anything about Win8 SP1 if that's a separate thing.

I think they're not calling it a service pack because it's not a roll up of patches and fixes only, it includes a lot of functional upgrades and changes. I suspect that marketing decided that SPs bad, dot releases good.

Microsoft is just shifting to the Apple and Google model, incremental updates every year or so. Not all that ground breaking. I am just happy to see that they are not charging for it.

*nods*

I'm glad they're moving to a faster release cycle although I think it remains to be seen if 8.1 is just a blip or the start of a new trend in regards to pricing. I remember a lot of pundits wanted 7 to be a service pack / free upgrade for Vista and they still went ahead and charged for the new version.