Osama Bin Laden is dead!

django wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Niseg wrote:
Maybe the isolationists are right - you shouldn't mess with international policy . This way you can't mess up that much and and won'tburn as many bridges.

That would obviously mean we'd pull out a lot of our financial aid to various governments around the world. Does your nation really want that?


More importantly, does he mean the US should stop from systematically using its veto powers at the UN security council, the only thing that prevents sanctions being taken against his country?

That doesn't really matter . It's more likely the USA would leave the UN before that happens. The US is one of the lead contributors to the UN and it's not getting it's money's worth. If it stay in the UN it's more likely to veto everything so the security council wouldn't be able to do anything .

As I told you before we don't need your money... we don't get money anyways just weapon systems you buy for us in the USA. We can buy weapon systems from other countries or make our own. The billions of dollars that US spend on Israel's military aid goes back into the US economy.

I talked with my wife about this post and she said "Osama is alive , Obama is just a bad liar" . I don't think anyone in Israel is convinced he's dead. It would be stupid to go in and not take him alive.

I think you misunderstood my point. You're saying the US shouldn't mess with international policy. I'm saying isn't that a little ungrateful for you to say considering they've been - alone - pulling the ultimate diplomatic weight (systematic security council veto) in defense of Israel? (I'm not American btw).
Sorry to derail the topic


As I told you before we don't need your money... we don't get money anyways just weapon systems you buy for us in the USA. We can buy weapon systems from other countries or make our own. The billions of dollars that US spend on Israel's military aid goes back into the US economy.

Well, not really. A large part of the block grants and other military aid are spent on Israeli and foreign weapons systems. Further, Israel receives about $3 billion a year in direct grants for general economic aid like immigrant resettlement, hospitals and schools and other purposes. There are also indirect grants in the form of loan guarantees. As of 2010, Israel carried a debt of $625M to the US, from military purchases I think, which it pays out of interest from it's military grant account at the US Fed.

Fromt 1971 to 2008, Israel also received about $3B a year in direct aid designed to assist in the industrialization of the country. This was deemed successful and the payments have stopped.

So, about $3B a year is given to Israel as monetary aid outside of the military aid. That's a bit over 1.5% of the GDP of the country, or 25% of the entire government budget for 2009-2010.

Yeah, there's a reason why America and Israel are always linked in the minds of radical Muslims. Part of the "death to America" thing comes from our traditional support of Israel. From aid to weapons to using our veto power ont he security council. It's kind of weird to hear someone from their pee all over that.

Niseg wrote:
That doesn't really matter . It's more likely the USA would leave the UN before that happens. The US is one of the lead contributors to the UN and it's not getting it's money's worth. If it stay in the UN it's more likely to veto everything so the security council wouldn't be able to do anything .

As I told you before we don't need your money... we don't get money anyways just weapon systems you buy for us in the USA. We can buy weapon systems from other countries or make our own. The billions of dollars that US spend on Israel's military aid goes back into the US economy.

I talked with my wife about this post and she said "Osama is alive , Obama is just a bad liar" . I don't think anyone in Israel is convinced he's dead. It would be stupid to go in and not take him alive.

It's really somewhat amazing how ignorant you are of your countries position in the world. It's noble that you're willing to reject foreign aid but unfortunately there are no signs of your government being willing to stop sucking from the U.S. teat. You buy F-15s, F-16s and missile systems from us with the money we give you then you have the audacity to brag about your military independence. You're delusional.

I think what you fail to comprehend is just how fragile your little piece of the world is. Israel's position in the world, and their very existence is kept in tact by the fact that the U.S is compelled to play the role of big brother. Every time your government does something epically stupid we have to send a freaking carrier task force to the gulf. It's easy to be a badass when your big brother is always there to bail you out. The simple reality is that if you didn't have the United States standing behind you, your country would cease to exist.

And with that, I'm done responding to the "Israel rules" nonsense.

django wrote:
I think you misunderstood my point. You're saying the US shouldn't mess with international policy. I'm saying isn't that a little ungrateful for you to say considering they've been - alone - pulling the ultimate diplomatic weight (systematic security council veto) in defense of Israel? (I'm not American btw).

I don't think the USA autoveto anti Israeli policies because it likes Israel. It does so because they prefer it over the alternative.

django wrote:
Sorry to derail the topic :)

Just start a new topic if you don't want to derail this one and want me to comment on it. You can join the Mearsheimer and Walt thread so Paleocon doesn't feel lonely. I stoped reading/commenting on it for obvious reasons.

Robear wrote:
From 1971 to 2008, Israel also received about $3B a year in direct aid designed to assist in the industrialization of the country. This was deemed successful and the payments have stopped.

So, about $3B a year is given to Israel as monetary aid outside of the military aid. That's a bit over 1.5% of the GDP of the country, or 25% of the entire government budget for 2009-2010.

I couldn't open your file. the chart Bear posted on page 16 say that between 1997-2007 it was about 7.5 billion total that's about 750 million a year and as you said it was stopped. The chart shows the economic grant drops at a rate of 100 million a year where in 2007 Israel only got 120 million (115~ million drop)

You shouldn't only look at the numbers if you want to check out this topics you should check where the money intended to go and where it went. You should also look at why you suckers send us suitcases full of cash and how my government stab the citizens in the back because it loves money so much .

DSGamer wrote:
Yeah, there's a reason why America and Israel are always linked in the minds of radical Muslims. Part of the "death to America" thing comes from our traditional support of Israel. From aid to weapons to using our veto power ont he security council. It's kind of weird to hear someone from their pee all over that.

Maybe if you nuke Israel you'll start getting along with radical Muslims like Bin Laden. Then they'll tell you that you got 12 million Jews who control your government . So you'll create a version of the Nuremberg Laws to keep Jews out of politics . This kinda goes against the constitution but who cares about that old piece of paper.

I seriously doubt you known what goes in a radical Muslim's mind. I don't think what drives them is hate to Israel. They mostly look at the Quran as their guide and it generally say only Muslim has the right to rule over a land. They also have a somewhat broad interpretation of "infidels". Jews and Muslim got along much better throughout history compared to Christians and Jews.

You should all check out the Mearsheimer and Walt thread if you are interested in US -Israel and US-Jews relations. I think they mention that it's generally bad conduct of the US government and media rather than what AIPAC does. Lobbying have become a very effective way to play the political game even without the electoral power. In Israel since the internet age it's much harder for lobbies to get their way except for the US government lobby that backs his "suggestions" with suitcases full of cash.

Off topic and moving on.