WikiLeaks on Guantanamo Bay (Spoiler: everyone is right)

Link

Take this with a grain of salt, as you should any article that contains the damning yet uncertain phrase, "probably tortured."

Basically the leak says that both sides were right.

They've detained hundreds of terrorists and insurgents of varying importance and rank. We may question the conditions under which said prisoners admitted their guilt but it is a fact that they did admit guilt, so at least there's that.

They've also detained over one hundred innocent civilians, and this is where the "probably tortured" part comes in. The article states that some of them were "probably tortured" before being assessed as low importance, which I suppose is better than torturing them after we know they don't know anything.

The documents do not detail interrogation techniques, so there's still a question on that. Maybe that's where we get "probably tortured," in that they were interrogated but we can't confirm that the interrogation was torture (and honestly I'm starting to wonder how much I'd care about semantics were I being waterboarded).

To those who question whether we've found anything new through these interrogations, it seems that we have. You may question the value or validity of that information if you please; again, this is more of a summary of a document than an analysis.

* Detainee [Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, operational commander of Al-Qaeda and mastermind of the 9/11 attacks] stated that as an enemy of the US, he thought about the US policies with which he disagreed and how he could change them. Detainee’s plan was to make US citizens suffer, especially economically, which would put pressure on the US government to change its policies. Targeting priorities were determined by initially assessing those that would have the greatest economic impact, and secondly which would awaken people politically.”

*A senior Al-Qaeda commander claimed that the terrorist group has hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe which will be detonated if Bin-Laden is ever caught or assassinated. The US authorities uncovered numerous attempts by Al-Qaeda to obtain nuclear materials and fear that terrorists have already bought uranium. Sheikh Mohammed told interrogators that Al-Qaeda would unleash a “nuclear hellstorm”.

*The 20th 9/11 hijacker, who did not ultimately travel to America and take part in the atrocity, has revealed that Al-Qaeda was seeking to recruit ground-staff at Heathrow amid several plots targeting the world’s busiest airport. Terrorists also plotted major chemical and biological attacks against this country.

*A plot to put cyanide in the air-conditioning units of public buildings across America was exposed along with several schemes to target infrastructure including utility networks and petrol stations. Terrorists were also going to rent apartments in large blocks and set off gas explosions.

*About 20 juveniles, including a 14-year old boy have been held at Guantanamo. Several pensioners, including an 89 year old with serious health problems were incarcerated.

*People wearing a certain model of Casio watch from the 1980s were seized by American forces in Afghanistan on suspicion of being terrorists, because the watches were used as timers by Al-Qaeda. However, the vast majority of those captured for this reason have since been quietly released amid a lack of evidence.

*Bin Laden fled his hideout in the Tora Bora mountain range in Afghanistan just days before coalition troops arrived. The last reported sighting of the Al-Qaeda leader was in spring 2003 when several detainees recorded he had met other terrorist commanders in Pakistan.

*Bin Laden fled his hideout in the Tora Bora mountain range in Afghanistan just days before coalition troops arrived. The last reported sighting of the Al-Qaeda leader was in spring 2003 when several detainees recorded he had met other terrorist commanders in Pakistan.

This is just mind boggling to me.

A plot to put cyanide in the air-conditioning units of public buildings across America was exposed along with several schemes to target infrastructure including utility networks and petrol stations. Terrorists were also going to rent apartments in large blocks and set off gas explosions.

Remember that the government presented, with an absolutely straight face, confessions by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to plotting to blow up buildings that were not yet constructed when he was incarcerated.

People will say ANYTHING to make you stop torturing them. This supposed plot is probably bullsh*t invented to stop the agony.

garion333 wrote:
*Bin Laden fled his hideout in the Tora Bora mountain range in Afghanistan just days before coalition troops arrived. The last reported sighting of the Al-Qaeda leader was in spring 2003 when several detainees recorded he had met other terrorist commanders in Pakistan.

This is just mind boggling to me.

It is weird to think that Bin Laden is probably dead and has probably been dead for years.

Malor wrote:

People will say ANYTHING to make you stop torturing them. This supposed plot is probably bullsh*t invented to stop the agony.

Yep. Torturing people is pretty useful for having a steady supply of vague threats that you can use to mold public opinion and funding.

And they say it doesn't have any uses...

Reminds me of the end of 1984. When Winston Smith turns on Julia, learns to love Big Brother. Torture always yields the results you want, true or not.

DSGamer wrote:

Reminds me of the end of 1984. When Winston Smith turns on Julia, learns to love Big Brother. Torture always yields the results you want, true or not.

Well, to play Devil's advocate here... 1984 is a work of fiction. Based on some very dark, very real experiences to be sure but still, Winston did not turn on Julia because of Big Brother because there was no Winston, no Julia, and no Big Brother. He never stole chocolate from his sick little sister because there was no chocolate and no sister.

My point was that what seems logical (torture gives you the results you want, not necessarily the truth) is borne out in real life. I'm not shocked.

Yes, that seems logical to you and me. Lots of other people watched 24, where there wasn't a "ticking bomb" situation the hero couldn't resolve with a little violence. That's the problem with relying on fiction; since it didn't actually happen, anything can happen. The logic of the universe is the logic of the author and the audience, even if it might be wrong.

And yet sadly "24" was referenced by politicians to justify why we needed to be able to torture.

OG_slinger wrote:

And yet sadly "24" was referenced by politicians to justify why we needed to be able to torture.

Despite the fact the show made clear that only Jack Bauer ought have the powers of Jack Bauer.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

And yet sadly "24" was referenced by politicians to justify why we needed to be able to torture.

Despite the fact the show made clear that only Jack Bauer ought have the powers of Jack Bauer.

I find your Jack Bauer-based homeland security policy fascinating and would like to subscribe to your newsletter, assuming it is not a punch in the face delivered by Jack Bauer.

In other news, they've found that one inmate informed on 123 others. He's been inconsistent enough to throw his own testimony into doubt but man, I hope they don't turn that guy loose without some serious protection. Or maybe they'll make him the president of the next country we clean out?

If want to learn about the interrogation methods of the Shabak I found the article I've read in Blazer magazine (paper form) on the web. You should be aware that google translate isn't perfect . In another article I tried to translated it said that "...an explosive charge this size wouldn't leave a trace of me" as "wouldn't leave me a male"

Niseg wrote:

If want to learn about the interrogation methods of the Shabak I found the article I've read in Blazer magazine (paper form) on the web. You should be aware that google translate isn't perfect . In another article I tried to translated it said that "...an explosive charge this size wouldn't leave a trace of me" as "wouldn't leave me a male"

When penis bombs are outlawed only the outlaws will have penis bombs.