NBA 2010-11 Regular Season and Playoffs!

DSGamer wrote:
maxox wrote:
So was it just me or did it seem like the refs were doing their best to push this to 7 games? Miami hits free throws and it is a completely different game.

Then again if LeBron James from the regular season and first three playoff rounds shows up for four games this wouldn't have been a series.


Agree. I would like to propose that we change the NBA logo to Wade laying on the ground pleading for a foul.

He got spoiled in 2006.

It's a shame I really like Wade. Unfortunately since Shaq left he has become increasingly less humble. Adding the obviously immature LBJ to the mix has not been good. They are like two douchey high school kids. Which is not what Wade was like circa 2006.

For the Heat to get anywhere those two guys are either going to have to take the criticism in stride that they are douches and adjust (unlikely) or they are going to need a coach that can corral their enormous egos. If I was Pat Riley I'd be in Montana right now smoking a peace pipe with Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson is the master of getting dbags to play nice. That is unless there is some other coach out there that I don't know about that really understands how to deal with the mega-egos.

Coach Spo did a good job most of the year, but I think he lost Wade and James for good somewhere in the 4th quarter of Game 2.

I would agree with this. I've largely liked Wade most of his career. Minus the fact that he flops with the best of them and he constantly thinks he's fouled every time he shoots, he's a guy I like overall. He takes the ball to the rack, he plays hard and he plays much much bigger than his size. His heart is huge. I do think pairing him with James has set him back mentally. LeBron, it turns out, is an emotional midget.

What I find fascinating about LeBron is that he represents an outlier in terms of players who entered the NBA out of high school. I mention this not because people with high school educations are stupid or immature, but because in the NBA throwing millions of dollars at an 18 year old is the quickest way to stunt their growth as a player and as a person. We've seen this over and over again. Going to college doesn't guarantee you'll be mature when you enter the NBA. But it does mean there's a good chance you had to learn to play nice with others and be a little humble. There are different templates for how players enter the NBA and how they turn out.

There are NBA players who came straight from high school and entered the NBA fairly poised (Garnett). There are some players who entered after high school and eventually grew up to respect the game and take their craft seriously after watching their careers go adrift (Stevenson, Tyson Chandler). LeBron is unique in that he's in a state of arrested development. He acts like a guy who has a high school education and never bothered to learn how to get along in society. Like he never understood that "The Decision" might be misguided.

He doesn't seem to understand how to mold his game into something that can complement a team. Why doesn't he have a game back to the basket? Magic Johnson came out of college with one and played center as a rookie in the biggest game of his life. Why hasn't LeBron learned one at this point? Why didn't he see the Miami situation as an opportunity to mold himself into the consumate creator for other people? Sure, people beat LeBron up a little bit for going to South Beach to become Wade's Pippen, but he never developed the requisite skills and mindset to actually be a good sidekick.

This is possible the most important offseason of his career. If he doesn't get it now he might never get it until he's an aging role player in his mid-30s on a team like Dallas.

I think two things need to happen:

1. Miami needs to bring in a guy like Phil Jackson to stop the stupidity and get these guys to act/play like professionals. Not to mention cure LeQuit's quitting issue

2. Lebron needs to find himself a different adviser/mentor. Obviously Maverick Carter isn't getting it done

He doesn't seem to understand how to mold his game into something that can complement a team. Why doesn't he have a game back to the basket? Magic Johnson came out of college with one and played center as a rookie in the biggest game of his life. Why hasn't LeBron learned one at this point?

+1 This is a big question that he doesn't need to answer for us but for himself.

I get the vibe from them that there is some resentment that Wade and LeBron can't do it all themselves. During the Lakers three peat with Shaq, I got some of the same feeling but it was handled and the championships were won. In Miami I get the feeling there is resentment that they have to rely on players who only get 10-12 ppg to get those 10-12 ppg in order to win. They see it as not being up to their standards but on one hand they don't leave room for anyone else to score 30 and on the other hand just because you only get 12 ppg doesn't mean you are on some lower talent tier.

fangblackbone wrote:
He doesn't seem to understand how to mold his game into something that can complement a team. Why doesn't he have a game back to the basket? Magic Johnson came out of college with one and played center as a rookie in the biggest game of his life. Why hasn't LeBron learned one at this point?

+1 This is a big question that he doesn't need to answer for us but for himself.

I get the vibe from them that there is some resentment that Wade and LeBron can't do it all themselves. During the Lakers three peat with Shaq, I got some of the same feeling but it was handled and the championships were won. In Miami I get the feeling there is resentment that they have to rely on players who only get 10-12 ppg to get those 10-12 ppg in order to win. They see it as not being up to their standards but on one hand they don't leave room for anyone else to score 30 and on the other hand just because you only get 12 ppg doesn't mean you are on some lower talent tier.

Yeah, that's definitely a sharp contrast to the Mavs. Where not only is the scoring distributed, but Nowitzki called out Terry for not doing his part.

So happy for Dirk. Not only because he's the first German to win an NBA championship, but simply because he's such a great sportsman - thorough and really self-critical worker, not a loudmouth. Usually beats himself up for bad performances before anyone else can. (Seriously, his first brief analysis of Game 6 was along the lines of "Holy crap, I was really bad initially, but the other guys compensated for that.") As others already pointed out: He could have switched teams last year, and, surely enough, there were lots of voices who told him that this is what he will have to do to win a ring. He didn't. And now he delivered the proof that he's able to lead his team to the championship. Doesn't matter if LBJ wins next year, in 2013, 2014 or whatever - this is something he'll never be able to claim. At least not in Miami.

Interesting points about LBJ, DSGamer. You gotta wonder though - even if LBJ didn't really anticipate the effect The Decision might have on his image: What the hell was wrong with his managers?

DSGamer wrote:

That's probably over the top.

Probably less about basketball and more about votes. If there's an issue that everyone in your city (Republicans and Democrats) agrees with it's probably a good idea to come out publicly in strong support of that issue.

Hope this doesn't send the thread to Cleveland.. er wait.

Will we remember this year as an off year? I ask because there's obvious highs and lulls in quality in any sports league. I feel like this Mavs team was very much in the right place at the right time. For me Lakers last year and Boston in 08 would of mopped the floor in this years playoffs for some reason. Also that a more mature Thunder and Bulls team would of won their respective conference finals.

Or am I just trying to talk myself into the Knicks being a couple of pieces away from competing?

jowner wrote:
Or am I just trying to talk myself into the Knicks being a couple of pieces away from competing? ;)

Is the death of Dolan one of those pieces?

jowner wrote:
Will we remember this year as an off year? I ask because there's obvious highs and lulls in quality in any sports league. I feel like this Mavs team was very much in the right place at the right time. For me Lakers last year and Boston in 08 would of mopped the floor in this years playoffs for some reason. Also that a more mature Thunder and Bulls team would of won their respective conference finals.

Or am I just trying to talk myself into the Knicks being a couple of pieces away from competing?

I haven't been this interested in basketball since 1994, so I can't agree.

I'll give you the Thunder in two years over this Mavericks team, but I think the Bulls are what they are for a while. Their money is tied up long term in Boozer, Deng, and Noah. Presuming Rose sticks around, the only starting piece they have to shift is SG. That'll be a tough spot to fill via the Draft considering they're going to win 50+ every year, and unless I'm mistaken they're over the soft cap which makes free agent acquisitions harder.

Hey, so Ricky Rubio is going to play for Minny next year. I'm kinda stoked for that, against my better judgement. Hopefully they can get something in return for, say, Jonny Flynn.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Hey, so Ricky Rubio is going to play for Minny next year. I'm kinda stoked for that, against my better judgement. Hopefully they can get something in return for, say, Jonny Flynn.

Rubio has been a huge flop even in Europe, I don't think he will do well in the NBA. I actually think Flynn is probably better.

LeapingGnome wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:
Hey, so Ricky Rubio is going to play for Minny next year. I'm kinda stoked for that, against my better judgement. Hopefully they can get something in return for, say, Jonny Flynn.

Rubio has been a huge flop even in Europe, I don't think he will do well in the NBA. I actually think Flynn is probably better.

I've read articles in a few difference places saying otherwise. I won't quote the statistical one, but long story short is that John Hollinger has developed a method that is fairly accurate in predicting a Euroleaguer's stats converted to the NBA.

The rookie he is projected to closest resemble is Jason Kidd. "Fascinatingly, the 18-year-old Rubio appeared to be good for 10.8 points, five boards and 11.9 assists/36 minutes in an NBA context."

"Rubio's numbers have been down in recent years. In a conversation with Benjamin Polk of A Wolf Among Wolves, David Thorpe points to Rubio's Barcelona coach, who runs a restrictive system that does not let Rubio do what he's best at: Improvise scoring opportunities for his team."

There are more examples but you get the gist.

Bah, enough with all the serious talk, I want more Lebron jokes.

Tomorrow is Lebron James day, everyone gets to go home 12 minutes early.

Agent 86 wrote:
Bah, enough with all the serious talk, I want more Lebron jokes.

Buh, but the draft is next week!

I'm really curious about the European bigs projected to go in the lottery. Enes Kanter and Jonas Valenciunas both look like the real deal. Vasely and Motiejunas, maybe not. I love the mystery of it all.

LeapingGnome wrote:
I actually think Flynn is probably better.

Flynn was terrible last season. I'm pretty sure Rubio can pull off at least 5 ppg and 3 apg. It would be nice if they could move Flynn as I'd much rather have Ridnour there as Rubio's "mentor" but who the hell is going to take him.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
I actually think Flynn is probably better.

Flynn was terrible last season. I'm pretty sure Rubio can pull off at least 5 ppg and 3 apg. It would be nice if they could move Flynn as I'd much rather have Ridnour there as Rubio's "mentor" but who the hell is going to take him.

What do you think they're going to do with that second pick? I figure they're sticking with Beasley and Love at 3 and 4, and Kahn seems in love with Darko at 5. Rubio will get the first chance at the point long-term, so that leaves SG, which would be a stretch unless they trade the pick for a veteran.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I haven't been this interested in basketball since 1994, so I can't agree.

I'll give you the Thunder in two years over this Mavericks team, but I think the Bulls are what they are for a while. Their money is tied up long term in Boozer, Deng, and Noah. Presuming Rose sticks around, the only starting piece they have to shift is .

same, no disagreement with the interest aspect. Just saying the Heat were not an actual team and the Mavs put it together at the perfect time.

Oklahoma/Chicago too young and will get better. Boston/LA/San Antonio a combination of too old, wrong balance etc. (SA maybe actually being done next year if Duncan is, Kobe isnt done and neither is the core of Boston)

As for the Bulls I just think they are lacking playoff maturity. Also after JJ Barea its hard to argue you cant find a useful guy out of thin air. NBA 6th and 7th men are like no name NHL goalies who suddenly get hot and turn ok/good team into contenders.

My favorite thing about the NBA and especially the playoffs is you get to see which guys are wired mentally for crunch time. From Robert Horry to Mario Elie to Sam Cassel and on we've seen random guys step up to the moment. The guys you didn't expect. This year it was Barea and James Harden and maybe Chalmers. We'll see. Either I feel like the NBA is unlike any other sport in this respect. Guys with stones get sorted out really quickly the deeper you go in the playoffs. That's not to say LeBron can't come up big or that Barea is going to win title after title like Horry. It means that when you look for talent try and see if you can see that in a player. Not only are quality players available, but often they're not first round draft picks or All Star talent.

Blind_Evil wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
I actually think Flynn is probably better.

Flynn was terrible last season. I'm pretty sure Rubio can pull off at least 5 ppg and 3 apg. It would be nice if they could move Flynn as I'd much rather have Ridnour there as Rubio's "mentor" but who the hell is going to take him.

What do you think they're going to do with that second pick? I figure they're sticking with Beasley and Love at 3 and 4, and Kahn seems in love with Darko at 5. Rubio will get the first chance at the point long-term, so that leaves SG, which would be a stretch unless they trade the pick for a veteran.

Who knows what they're going to do. Nobody even knows whether Rambis will still be the coach come draft time. What I would like them to do is trade Beasley and draft Derrick Williams. Beasley looked like he was starting to figure things out last year so he might actually have some value. With Williams they might still be stuck with a power forward playing small forward but, from what I've seen of Williams, he's more suited to it that Beasley and he's not a headcase. Depending on how they actually feel about Darko, they could maybe go with Kanter (assuming they feel like he can play center).

In the end, I think they're either going to draft Williams or trade the pick. I'll be more interested to see who they can get with #20. They really have nobody to play the 2 or the 3 so hopefully they can get somebody decent there. At least somebody that can play defense because they are really lacking in that department.

I haven't gotten to watch as many Wolves games as I wanted to last year, so I'll ask you: how did Wesley Johnson do? His FG% was low I see, but that doesn't always tell the whole story. Is it already clear that Demarcus Cousins would have been a better pick, maturity aside? Could he possibly be the 2 they're looking for?

The Lakers need to get Ariza back. I don't think they are "over" at all. I just think, and I know this is soooo profound, that they got run over by a team on a mission. (hindsight is so lovely!)

Well its what every team needs... a couple of guys that know how to step up the intensity at key moments.

jowner wrote:
I feel like this Mavs team was very much in the right place at the right time. For me Lakers last year and Boston in 08 would of mopped the floor in this years playoffs for some reason.

I think this year's Mavs team would stack up with those guys. They were incredibly resilient while facing big deficits. Nothing seemed to ever make them panic. Phil Jackson should be proud of the Mavs' zen style.

ChrisLTD wrote:
jowner wrote:
I feel like this Mavs team was very much in the right place at the right time. For me Lakers last year and Boston in 08 would of mopped the floor in this years playoffs for some reason.

I think this year's Mavs team would stack up with those guys. They were incredibly resilient while facing big deficits. Nothing seemed to ever make them panic. Phil Jackson should be proud of the Mavs' zen style.

I agree. I think this Mavs team will be remembered as a one-off team. Like the Marlins in baseball. But sometimes teams catch lightning a bottle and if you took that team from that season they might do favorably against other teams historically.

I will say this. Even though Boston was beaten up, the Heat were just jelling and the other teams were young, the NBA has never been more talented in my opinion. To win THIS playoffs means something more, IMO.

Blind_Evil wrote:
I haven't gotten to watch as many Wolves games as I wanted to last year, so I'll ask you: how did Wesley Johnson do? His FG% was low I see, but that doesn't always tell the whole story. Is it already clear that Demarcus Cousins would have been a better pick, maturity aside? Could he possibly be the 2 they're looking for?

I only saw about a third of their games this year but from what I saw he was alright. I was more impressed by Webster when he played. Now that I look up their numbers they had very similar years but Webster had a much better shooting percentage and had a lot of games missed.

I noticed this in an article on ESPN:

Sources with knowledge of the situation say that if the Cavaliers pick Irving at No. 1, the Timberwolves will take Williams at No. 2, and don't plan on trading Michael Beasley or Anthony Randolph.

If the Cavs were to select Williams, the Timberwolves would take Irving at No. 2, even with the impending arrival of Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio. The Timberwolves would hold onto the Irving asset and likely command a number of suitors. Reserve point guard Jonny Flynn then would be on the trade block.

Neither of those notes makes much sense to me. If they draft Williams they would have to trade somebody. They would have Williams, Love, Beasley and Randolph all listed at power forward. They aren't trading Love anytime soon even though his defense is terrible. Williams is probably the best player in this draft (not saying much but I think he had potential to be a solid player) and Randolph seemed to do really well once he came over. Assuming Randolph's success is just because of Rambis' system, I could see trading him if Rambis gets canned otherwise Beasley's the odd man out (and he probably would bring in the most outside of Love).

Drafting Irving would just be stupid. If Cleveland takes Williams, just trade the pick. People already think you're a joke. Don't draft another point guard.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/06/tmz_and_greg_oden_blazers_star.html

Ouch.

Greg Oden tells a reporter that he "tried basketball but wasn't good at it". We need to move him, sarcasm or not. He's clearly in a bad headspace about his recovery and chances to play.

Marc Stein was on Sportscenter this morning saying something about the Lakers trying to trade Pau Gasol for the #2 pick. I missed most of it but apparently they also want Kevin Love. Yes, a 31-year-old sidekick is worth a 22-year-old rebound machine and probably the best player in the draft. :why is there no eye-roll smiley:

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Marc Stein was on Sportscenter this morning saying something about the Lakers trying to trade Pau Gasol for the #2 pick. I missed most of it but apparently they also want Kevin Love. Yes, a 31-year-old sidekick is worth a 22-year-old rebound machine and probably the best player in the draft. :why is there no eye-roll smiley:

In all fairness it's a weak draft. If Minnesota does that deal they're incredibly stupid still. They have a young team that has good pieces. They don't need vets right now.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Marc Stein was on Sportscenter this morning saying something about the Lakers trying to trade Pau Gasol for the #2 pick. I missed most of it but apparently they also want Kevin Love. Yes, a 31-year-old sidekick is worth a 22-year-old rebound machine and probably the best player in the draft. :why is there no eye-roll smiley:

I've been listening to Bill Simmons' podcast lately, and this was discussed briefly with Chad Ford. The short version is that this was floated as a possibility on some blog and is not being talked about.