*Release* Rift Catch-All - if it isnt for any of the other threads - it goes here

krev82 wrote:

uh to clarify those in open beta are on shatterbone defiant right? I can't seem to track anyone down in GWJ , GWJAlliance, etc

I will also be on I think my dudes name is Eisenhorne and you should find moondragon on as well. Get on Vent and you should be able to get an invite.

Sorry, I collapsed at my keyboard earlier this afternoon and decided I probably needed to take a nap. Logging back in now.

alexicacon wrote:

Sorry, I collapsed at my keyboard earlier this afternoon and decided I probably needed to take a nap. Logging back in now.

Unacceptable...napping during beta?

Underwhelmed. It appears you will have to PvP to PvE, on occasion.

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On February 20, 2011 15:45:40 [Bridenbrad] wrote:
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Cuzaodemerda is griefing, simply put. He's a ?? level guardian player, running amok at King's Retreat, killing all the npcs needed for questing and crafting. Expect a LOT of this behavior in retail.

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On February 20, 2011 16:08:37 [Customer Service] wrote:
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Hello Bridenbrad! Thank you for contacting us regarding Rift. I'm very sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused, and we understand the frustration of players who are being repeatedly killed by other players or when other players are camping your NPCs. However this is considered normal PvP behavior. In order to counter this, you are more than welcome to contact other players for assistance in defeating the player(s) causing the issue. If you have any additional questions or concerns then please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Rift. Your reference number for this question is 110220-001177 Sincerely, GM Morgana Sr. Game Master Trion Worlds Inc.

...just like most other multi-faction mmo's.

It might reach WoW Barrens-level annoyance once player population diffuses between zones, but the few times I've encountered similar griefing in-game it was usually only a matter of minutes before a horde of players descended upon the griefer and npc's respawned.

Uhm, so, a 'horde' of level 9 through 11s are gonna descend on the ?? griefer.... that's called 'feeding the trolls'. The griefer will LOVE it, if that were to happen. There would be tombstones all over the place.

Bad design. Its a PvE server. Those NPCs should be high enough level that a group of max level characters could take them out, not so low level a single griefer can slaughter them as fast as they respawn.

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Take two:

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On February 20, 2011 17:04:29 [Bridenbrad] wrote:
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Wrong answer. This is a PvE Server. Not a PvP server. On a PvP server, this is normal and acceptable, I wouldn't have even blinked let alone filed a ticket. This, however, is NOT a PvP server. PvP is supposed to be voluntary and consensual on PvE servers. Based on your reply, that is not the case. If so, your company needs to update its website to make it clear that we will HAVE to PvP on occasion, to PvE. Yes, HAVE is the correct term, since this is allowed behavior, expect a LOT of it.

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On February 20, 2011 17:28:17 [Customer Service] wrote:
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Hello Bridenbrad! We appreciate your vigilance in regards to this issue and know that we will begin our investigation into the matter. Please be aware that you will not be contacted with the results of our investigation due to our Privacy Policy. However, do know that the player choosing to PvP in this matter has to be flagged for PvP: I highly recommend advertising this fact to higher level players, and rally them to your cause in order to remove them from the lower level zones. If you have any additional questions or concerns then please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Rift. Your reference number for this question is 110220-001177 Sincerely, GM Morgana Sr. Game Master Trion Worlds Inc.

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w t f? I'll ignore the explanation about flagging. The suggestion that I 'rally' high level players to 'remove' the griefer displays simple ignorance of the situation. First, its not possible for a player to remove another player from a zone. Short of a vote-kick. Second, anyone that has seen this happen on other MMOs (Crossroads in the Barrens come to mind?) could explain in a heartbeat why this is a bad suggestion. Griefers live for this, the thought of the victims wasting time trying to get help from other players 'gives them wood'. Seriously. Lets say you could 'rally' some high levels to show up. What then? The griefer laughs and laughs, and runs around. Occasionally you can force him to respawn, if you have enough high level players spending their evening trying to help protect that one quest hub. At the most, you will make the griefer move to the other side of the zone, targetting a different hub.

This approach does nothing more than give the griefer exactly what he wants, attention.

After a while (30 minutes? an hour?) the higher level players are gone. They want to get back to leveling, running dungeons, doing things to improve their character. Not baby-sitting.

The griefer? He'll stay there for hours on end, if there is a chance he's getting what he wants, the 'joy' of (hopefully) ruining someone's day.

U mad, bro?

?

I think you are making a much bigger deal of this than it is.

ruhk wrote:

?

I think you are making a much bigger deal of this than it is.

...yeah, I haven't seen any of these problems. The other nice thing about this game is that you're not exactly railroaded into quests. You can level just fine and probably better by running rifts and get back to questing later.

There's a definant monkey in the Gorge that keeps hopping in when he sees an AOE on the ground during rift events or questing just so he can turn and attack; however, I just don't think its going to be that big of an issue to be honest.

I'd just liek to say that we totally owned Iron Tomb...once we figured a few things out. I can't wait for launch and to be abel to really commit to leveling and having main. only 4 days!

Holla wrote:

I'd just liek to say that we totally owned Iron Tomb...once we figured a few things out. I can't wait for launch and to be abel to really commit to leveling and having main. only 4 days!

That was a blast.

IMAGE(http://cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20110221-1a0c2.png)

LtWarhound wrote:

Cuzaodemerda is griefing, simply put. He's a ?? level guardian player, running amok at King's Retreat, killing all the npcs needed for questing and crafting. Expect a LOT of this behavior in retail.

Sorry man, I don't see anything wrong with that and I agree with the response. If there is someone killin NPCs in a friendly hub, put the call out for high level reinforcements via global chat.

Lots of quest hubs too at any given level and range. Easy to move somewhere else if there's an issue with a griefer.

alexicacon wrote:

Lots of quest hubs too at any given level and range. Easy to move somewhere else if there's an issue with a griefer.

Easy maybe, but a waste of time definitely.

Quest hubs are generally 30 seconds apart maybe. I don't see it as too big an issue. And rifts/instances are way faster anyway, and generally immune to griefers. I see grinding quests as the province of solo guys mainly who aren't in a group running rifts.

alexicacon wrote:

Quest hubs are generally 30 seconds apart maybe. I don't see it as too big an issue. And rifts/instances are way faster anyway, and generally immune to griefers. I see grinding quests as the province of solo guys mainly who aren't in a group running rifts.

Right. And of course, every new player to the game has gone through the betas, and already knows where the hubs are, how to get to them, which ones replace the one they can't use. And doesn't care about the lore or learning about the world they are playing in, after all, its aaaaaallllll about grinding out those levels as fast as humanly possible.

Positive new user experience, pfft, what a nub, right?

Rifts immune to griefers? Man, people like the goons would have a riot there. Imagine taking a group of just 3 or 4 into enemy territory. Find a rift running group, follow them around. Flag, step into AoE, start tossing out CC at the healers, watch the the NPCs rip the groups up. Fortunately, the rifts happened so fast and so often I don't see this being a big problem. I only saw a few people try this, and they died fast because they were stupid. Don't flag in the middle of the massed AoE. Stand on the edge, flag, move in enough to take a hit, step back, target the now flagged players, cut loose, rinse, repeat.

AoE doesn't flag you. If it does currently, then that's a bug that will get fixed.

Take a deep breath and relax, Lt. NPC respawn times are only 30 seconds and at launch, there will be plenty of high-level players who will gleefully kill any griefers on your side. It works both ways.

Someone got up on the wrong side of the Rift methinks.

I don't believe I ever said anything about it being "aaaaalll about grinding as fast as possible." I believe if you review my post, I said if you were being inconvenienced in one area, there were other viable areas to quest as well.

There are lvl 52 elite realm guards dotted around in areas near the newbie spots in freemarch and silverwood, but part of the game's mechanic is players can disable and interdict enemy readers in many areas, whether pve or PVP. Pve is limited to just npcs unless a player chooses otherwise.

I have no problem with that, and don't see an issue with it frankly. If an area is being griefed and you don't want to organize or request help from higher lvl folks (some of whom LIVE to kill griefers, just like griefers enjoy their thing), then another area is usually just down the road. When in doubt, just follow the road.

For quests, you can always come back later to them if you want them.

Instances are up all the time too, and highly rewarding.

I believe you can set your options not to attack a flagged person without a confirmation box. Pretty sure of it. So the AoE thing you describe may work once, twice on the slower folks, but easily solved if people just communicate as a realm.

I dunno, I too think it's a pointless and archaic game mechanic to have present on a PvE server, but it fits in just fine on a PvP server. It's not gamebreaking to me, but it's annoying that it's another WoW mechanic that they've kept instead of rethinking it.

Yep, works great as a PvP mechanic. On a PvE server? Not so good. And yes, the flagging to AoE may be a bug, but it was working just as I described yesterday, so I bet its in release. Hopefully they will have time to patch it out (and do so) before the griefers hit, say, 30.

Respawn on the npcs is fast, yep. Yet I sat there watching a guardian rogue shut down King's Retreat, single handed, by killing the quest and merchant/trainer npcs as fast as they spawned. No joke, I was standing by the weaponsmith merchant/trainer, he spawns, I click, start to make a purchase and he was dead. The griefer just sat on the hillside, picking them off bangbangbang. A player new to the game is going to think 'Oh, I'll just wander down the road to the next hub, no big deal'? No.

And no, really, think it through. Please. Stop just glancing at the post, and read what's been already written. There will _not_ be plenty of high levels around to stop said griefers. First, they will be busy leveling up, and second, even if they do make an appearence, they won't stick around as long as the griefer. I've seen this play out time and time again in new MMOs. The devs never take this seriously at release, it's always patched in later. It's enough of an annoyance that its making me rethink my interest in the game. This is the sort of 'lesson learned' that every new mmo should be looking at, and taking the simple appropriate steps to handle prior to release.

My other half _had_ a minor interest in trying Rift, since both I and another friend of her's were thinking playing Rift. After watching this griefer in action, reviewing the GM's response (and your responses), its pretty much killed any chance of her playing. Great. Just frikking great. Her response is not unique.

What did you expect the GM's response to be?

I definitely prefer a dynamic world where player activity can modify the game world in unexpected ways as opposed to a static one where the NPCs are quest-giving statues. I play MMOs and other multiplayer games because all the random sh*t that can happen

OK ... as I mentioned a few posts up:

you can set your options not to attack a flagged person without a confirmation box. Pretty sure of it. So the AoE thing you describe may work once, twice on the slower folks, but easily solved

HERE: is the setting, and the exact place to find it - so that when you AoE a flagged person, or do anything else to a flagged person, you get a confirmation box asking if you want to attack them and auto-set your PvP flag, otherwise, you do NOT flag for PvP. It's as simple as that to fix.

As I said, that's a communications issue at worst to simply ask in /1 or /4 or /gu or something -- for those folks who don't take the ~ 30 seconds to look in their combat settings.

The toggle is labeled "PvP Auto Flag" under the settings >> Interface >> Combat menu.

IMAGE(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/ben589/2011-02-21_193021.jpg)

And yes, the flagging to AoE may be a bug, but it was working just as I described yesterday, so I bet its in release. Hopefully they will have time to patch it out (and do so) before the griefers hit, say, 30.

Hopefully, the above message, and screenshot demonstrating the setting and where to find it will resolve this bit of confusion. I REALLY do not believe the AoE mechanic as described to be a bug - merely folks still learning the game and the settings (and it's still too early for everyone to be experts with all the features yet, given that it hasn't even been released) - so that's understandable.

After watching this griefer in action, reviewing the GM's response (and your responses), its pretty much killed any chance of her playing. Great. Just frikking great.

I'm sorry if your girlfriend/wife had a negative perception based on one guy roaming around killing quest mobs, but the AoE issue you described is a 1 click fix, and griefer's are not everywhere, all the time.

With about 20 minutes of playing you could get used to roaming around to different areas, there's plenty of places to experience, do quests, run rifts, you name it. And instanced dungeons are fine too.

I simply don't want the game developer trying to design or enforce a forced "nanny-state" controlling everything. I think it adds a degree of life and dynamic to the game to allow for interaction and content as desired. Basically none of the quests are required except maybe the one for the planar lure, and none of them have a level requirement on them, so you can always come back and pick them up whenever you like.

I know several folks who make it their personal mission to hunt and kill griefers - it's what they live for. (Unfortunately they're also playing on a PvP server and wouldn't come to shatterbone no matter how much I tried to entice them.) You'll have folks like this, sure, but there will be others. And does it really matter if the griefer killer comes and stays as long as the griefer so long as you get your quests done and move on?

alexicacon wrote:

I know several folks who make it their personal mission to hunt and kill griefers - it's what they live for. (Unfortunately they're also playing on a PvP server and wouldn't come to shatterbone no matter how much I tried to entice them.) You'll have folks like this, sure, but there will be others. And does it really matter if the griefer killer comes and stays as long as the griefer so long as you get your quests done and move on?

Enjoy the hell out of fighting griefers.

I tried the game again during the open beta and its been very cleaned up and makes me consider picking it up, but i'm more pvp oriented and may go that route instead.

I've played MMOs forever of all types... I have to say that LTs worries are valid worries and shouldn't be just waved away like its no big deal. Griefing is an attempt to disrupt others play. Saying just move on or wait a bit isnt a proper response. It will happen repeatedly until the devs do something or create some kind of penalty to stop it.

At the same time it wont be that big of an issue at the start of the game because no one will be that high enough lvl to do this paticular type of grief.

LtWarhound wrote:

My other half _had_ a minor interest in trying Rift, since both I and another friend of her's were thinking playing Rift. After watching this griefer in action, reviewing the GM's response (and your responses), its pretty much killed any chance of her playing. Great. Just frikking great. Her response is not unique.

Please let her know she will not be the only female in the guild. My husband and I will be playing and grouping with everyone and hopefully if enough of us hang around we can have some good leveling groups. That in itself deters most griefers, they tend to pick on solo players for the most part. I am also one who loves to fight back against griefers so if you guys do wind up giving it a shot feel free to group up or give a shout if this should turn out to be a large problem I for one am always up for a good fight :).

Well, I see it as there's other regions that have higher level NPCs too - with lvl 52 realm guards.

We were in open beta the other night and I was leading a few folks (forgot who now) over to Silverwood to run around and explore over there, and one of them ran across one of the level 52 realm guards without watching and BLAMMO! Not pretty.

I concur that the starting areas could use a higher density of lvl 52 NPCs - and maybe some sort of a workable system like the source stones that summon guards. I don't know.

Ran - if you're looking for a PvP group - I can hook you up with a solid group of folks playing on a PvP server. I've been grouping with some of them since EQ1 released, and most others since DAoC released 10 years ago. "Shadow Gypsies" is the guild. Good folks, I recommend them highly - point man for them is Spehonfyr - he's (and most of the SG's) are anti-griefer too.

alexicacon wrote:

Well, I see it as there's other regions that have higher level NPCs too - with lvl 52 realm guards.

We were in open beta the other night and I was leading a few folks (forgot who now) over to Silverwood to run around and explore over there, and one of them ran across one of the level 52 realm guards without watching and BLAMMO! Not pretty.

I concur that the starting areas could use a higher density of lvl 52 NPCs - and maybe some sort of a workable system like the source stones that summon guards. I don't know.

Ran - if you're looking for a PvP group - I can hook you up with a solid group of folks playing on a PvP server. I've been grouping with some of them since EQ1 released, and most others since DAoC released 10 years ago. "Shadow Gypsies" is the guild. Good folks, I recommend them highly - point man for them is Spehonfyr - he's (and most of the SG's) are anti-griefer too.

I know the SG name from DAoC. Thanks for the offer. I have a couple of different groups i can join up with if i go that route. Because my play time has shrunk a PvE route may be better because i wont feel the frustration of being behind the curve.

Since things in RL have slowed my play time down in general, and i'm still enamored with Cataclysm so when i do play i try to get as much outta that as i can.

This will truly be a last minute coin toss.

I'm a girl and an anti-griefer. I like to have a high lvl toon waiting in the wings as it were so that when someone comes a ganking i come a knocking the heads in. and have a policy that if anyone needs a hub protected i try my best to get there. Oh XR... how many hours i spent there sitting under a tree waiting for respawns...