Bulletstorm Catch-All

For the digital versions:

EA[/url]]PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION AND ACCEPTANCE OF END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REQUIRED TO PLAY.

The packaged versions don't have that requirement.

Finally gave the demo a spin...I am about 20 years too old for this game.

First, the game can be played button-mash fu style, of which I am a Black Belt. But that's not really the point of it, right? It does look like the game will reward patient exploration of combos, strategies, and practice...but I'm no longer willing to put in the time or effort to do so.

Second, outside of that, the game offers too little. The demo could have been lifted out of Gears, save the occasional splash of color, and the juvenile dialog. Not enough payoff there. I can replay Gears for nothing, since the disk is sitting right here.

Think I'll wait until this is bargain binned, save my "let's act like I'm a teenager" nostalgia game for Duke Nukem.

Thank goodness the physical version at least doesn't have the requirement. If they'd gone the Ubisoft route, I'd be passing on the game completely, which would have been very sad.

LobsterMobster wrote:

...and the characters look decent, except for the guy with the slice of ham on the side of his head, who looks like a goofy 1960's cyborg.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/UJ7cD.jpg)

Metalstorm, meet Bulletstorm. Bulletstorm, meet Metalstorm. You guys have soooo much in common.

That said, I agree with you're thoughts on the incentive to play this game. If all they give me is leaderboard ranks, then leash, kick, shoot for me too.

I played it a 2nd time yesterday, and my urge to cancel my pre-order was strengthened.

I thought the demo was SP only.

Anyway, I'm in the camp that was disappointed in the demo, so much that I nixed my preorder. Maybe I should give that quick look a spin.

I got the impression they're not space pirates, but space mercs, which...>sigh<..space mercs are cool...I guess...they're just not as cool as space pirates.

Scratched wrote:

For the digital versions:

EA[/url]]PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION AND ACCEPTANCE OF END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REQUIRED TO PLAY.

The packaged versions don't have that requirement.

Huzzah! Debunked

The GiantBomb Quick Look made this game look AWESOME. Gonna have to jump on the MP demo.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I thought the demo was SP only.

Anyway, I'm in the camp that was disappointed in the demo, so much that I nixed my preorder. Maybe I should give that quick look a spin.

Sorry, I meant SP. Got confused with the other quick look I watched this weekend (Crysis 2 MP).

Blind_Evil wrote:

I thought the demo was SP only.

Anyway, I'm in the camp that was disappointed in the demo, so much that I nixed my preorder. Maybe I should give that quick look a spin.

After mulling it over some I also decided to cancel my pre-order.

I feel like Epic/People Can Fly have made a mis-step. Whether it is just with the demo or the game itself I can't be sure yet. I think that demo did more to hurt their sales than help it - I have seen a number of similar posts on Giant Bomb, where I'd expect to see more people excited about the game. I'm starting to feel like that Gears of War 3 beta is actually crucial to the game's success... and that only applies to one platform.

For all I know the demo was a poor representation of the game which is actually awesome - but I'm not going to spend 60 dollars based on what I played.

Some of the bosses I've seen in trailers look awesome (I get the feeling that's the exception), but the demo was just killing the same dude over and over. It seems like they're emphasizing your need to kill stylishly because they didn't put enough gameplay variance in on their own. Kinda reminds me of how people respond to my criticism of Mass Effect 2's combat repetition: "well you're just not utilizing the system well enough." That's not really my job, it's theirs as level designers to make me.

I have enjoyed certain games in the past almost entirely based on style alone, but this game's particular art direction doesn't do anything for me. It reminds me too much of Borderlands, which I liked way less than I expected.

I decided I'd ignore being called a "swill swizzling sphinc-lipped puzz dumpster" by the protagonists and give the demo a whirl. I'm just not feeling the gameplay. I killed with skill more by accident than design, voodoo-dolling the bad guys unintentionally when I meant to drag them over for the ol' curb stomp, head shot, long drop, sudden stop, jack pot. Maybe I was hoping more for the endless waves of baddies from Painkiller, but Bulletstorm felt too same-y, like Borderlands without the loot or Halo without the pompous majesty. The hook didn't set so I'm giving it a pass, puerile writing or not.

I'm with Blind and biginjapan - I also canceled my preorder. While the demo was fun, after 3 playthroughs I just could not see myself wanting to play through this more than once or twice on different difficulty levels. $60 is too much for a Gears 3 beta.

As someone pointed out on another forum, unless you are into the whole point-farming/leaderboard thing, this game will quickly evolve into leash-kick-shoot and that will get boring real quick .

Just as a more general point, and as someone who hasn't played the demo yet, is there anything to be said for big combo kills? I get the feeling that, like any new tech, this might be the victim of buying too much into that new shiny thing. I think it would have been cool as the background to a solid shooter, but it seems too much of the game is resting on it. Combined with the humour and tone, which some may like but has just as much capacity to rub people up the wrong way, I'm not really sure how well it will establish itself for the future.

Scratched wrote:

Just as a more general point, and as someone who hasn't played the demo yet, is there anything to be said for big combo kills?

I guess it depends on how creative you are and how much finesse you play with. And how much killing enemies in various fashions amuses you. I'm a button mashing practical player, so whatever gets the job done is good enough for me.

They are pretty upfront that this game is meant to be replayed ad nauseum to try and do better than your last run, and to do better you have to constantly be switching up your tactics. By constantly I mean varying it from one kill to the next. The game 'penalizes' you for not using variety by slowly decreasing the amount of points you get for repeating tactics.

It's very scripted, so - for me anyways - it provides less opportunity for variety since you're replaying the same scenarios over and over.

To those of you complaining about the "ease" of bullet kicking enemies: Bullet-kick killing over and over again will get you a crummy amount of points, and they are not just used for leaderboards: in singleplayer you use those points to buy yourself new abilities. So as the game goes on, the proverbial bullet-kicker will become weaker and weaker as their abilities are limited from their own refusal to try anything different. Later in the game, there will be leash-immune and leash-resistant enemies and bullet-kickers (aka Bkickers) will not be able to handle them because they have quite literally not developed any skills, both in-game and out; we can then all look forward to the BKickers coming on here and whining about how "unbalanced" the game is (now that they can no longer press two buttons to win every fight).

Secondly:

Blind_Evil wrote:

Kinda reminds me of how people respond to my criticism of Mass Effect 2's combat repetition: "well you're just not utilizing the system well enough." That's not really my job, it's theirs as level designers to make me.

If you didn't beat Mass Effect 2 on hardcore or insanity you really didn't play the combat system at all. Normal and even Veteran are a joke. Did you play the game on Hardcore or Insanity? If not, I suggest you give it another try.

HardlyWalken wrote:

To those of you complaining about the "ease" of bullet kicking enemies: Bullet-kick killing over and over again will get you a crummy amount of points, and they are not just used for leaderboards: in singleplayer you use those points to buy yourself new abilities. So as the game goes on, the proverbial bullet-kicker will become weaker and weaker as their abilities are limited from their own refusal to try anything different. Later in the game, there will be leash-immune and leash-resistant enemies and bullet-kickers (aka Bkickers) will not be able to handle them because they have quite literally not developed any skills, both in-game and out; we can then all look forward to the BKickers coming on here and whining about how "unbalanced" the game is (now that they can no longer press two buttons to win every fight).

Odd that the developer seems to disagree with you...

Q: We saw the game being played single player. Can Bulletstorm be played as a story-driven first-person shooter?

AC: Beautiful question because this is exactly how it is. We don't force this system upon you. The core of it is still shooting things and being in and playing an action game. If you want to ignore that Skill Shot layer and play traditionally, you absolutely can. You will not be able to do it for long, in the way that you will get curious very soon. Some of these Skill Shots you can execute by accident. Then you see, 'So, okay, that was fun. I have these points. Oh, this is what I can get if I have more points. Actually, yeah, I want to try it.' So you start gaining your first points and quickly you're into it. If for some reason, on purpose maybe, you want to play it as every other shooter on the market, absolutely you can.

Note he does say "you won't be able to do it for very long", but only for the reason that he hopes you will grow curious enough to play with the system, not because the challenge level requires it.

(If you have some info that rebuts this let me know, despite a lot of hunting I've seen very little detailed information about the single player campaign.)

HardlyWalken wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

Kinda reminds me of how people respond to my criticism of Mass Effect 2's combat repetition: "well you're just not utilizing the system well enough." That's not really my job, it's theirs as level designers to make me.

If you didn't beat Mass Effect 2 on hardcore or insanity you really didn't play the combat system at all. Normal and even Veteran are a joke. Did you play the game on Hardcore or Insanity? If not, I suggest you give it another try.

That's exactly what he's talking about. Not that the combat was shallow, but that they hid it's depth away on the higher difficulties. Difficulty should be about difficulty, not whether you can abandon whole parts of the gameplay to progress.

The other thing that irks me about the "you need to play on hard" approach is that it doesn't suit everyone. I believe that 'normal is normal', but if you want a harder challenge because you're good with the game, go ahead and ramp it up. The same core gameplay should be there for all difficulties, it's not as though they withhold missions from difficulties as everyone would rightly call them on it.

Well, HardlyWalken, I wasn't so much complaining about the ease of bullet-kicking as questioning whether I'd really ever need to do anything else. It was a matter of incentive, not challenge. I can assure you, if and when I pick up Bulletstorm and experience difficulty against some enemies, I will not whinge about some lack of balance in the combat system.

I have one key that starts my car. I have another that opens my front door. I don't particularly feel the need to go trying out other keys because I have those two problems solved. I can assure you, if ever I put a key in either my car or my door and it does not fit I will probably check my keyring rather than throwing up my hands and calling it a stupid car and an ugly house with crappy jerk keys.

Then again, I played Mass Effect 2 on normal and veteran so I'm apparently doing it wrong.

IMAGE(http://smokinghippo.com/Bits/LockPics/eyeroll.gif)

HardlyWalken wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

Kinda reminds me of how people respond to my criticism of Mass Effect 2's combat repetition: "well you're just not utilizing the system well enough." That's not really my job, it's theirs as level designers to make me.

If you didn't beat Mass Effect 2 on hardcore or insanity you really didn't play the combat system at all. Normal and even Veteran are a joke. Did you play the game on Hardcore or Insanity? If not, I suggest you give it another try.

Kinda funny that I said I don't buy into this BS and someone posts this BS anyway.

I've tried insanity, said no thanks. Not fun.

That game's had two chances to prove to me it is the second coming and failed both times. That's one more chance than most get.

Scratched wrote:

That's exactly what he's talking about. Not that the combat was shallow, but that they hid it's depth away on the higher difficulties. Difficulty should be about difficulty, not whether you can abandon whole parts of the gameplay to progress.

This is nonsense. Difficulty reduces depth; it means less mastery of the gameplay, or in some cases no use of gameplay at all, and that's a reality. Again, in some cases, when you play a game on Casual, you abandon entire parts of the gameplay. It depends on what the designers want. Gears of War on casual basically doesn't require the use of cover. Vanquish on Casual auto-aims for you - you literally don't need to know how to use the cover system or even aim your weapon. To switch generes, Ninja Gaiden on normal doesn't even begin to TOUCH what the game is like on Hard. And part of the reason it's harder is because you have to do things you didn't have to do at other difficulties.

The designers of Mass Effect 2 decided to rip out the "strip a layer of defense" system out of the lower difficulties so you could get right to the meat of making the bad guys virtually helpless from the get-go. Personally I thought it was a bad idea and I was amazed at how fun the game was once I turned it up to Hardcore (and then Insanity). The firefights became fun and much more tactical. So bad on the designers for making "Normal" a boring hand-hold. However, I also think it's a bad idea for the player to find an "easy button" solution to the game, keep pounding it, and never turn up the difficulty. Hey, don't get me wrong, the designers are partially at fault here. On the other hand, a player has to take some responsibility for their own fun, and if you're finding something too powerful or too easy, TURN UP THE DIFFICULTY.

Also, comparing gameplay systems to keys on a ring is...well I could say something about playing every game on casual and only using the pistol, and bingo. You've unlocked that gameplay system for "shooting". Clearly, however, FPS fans like a variety of weapons and splashy effects, it's a big part of the appeal of the genre, and Bulletstorm's SkillShots are a way to bring yet another angle to a genre that's largely been gameplay stagnant for the last 5 years or so.

In closing, I think it's a huge mistake to base any kind of assumption about the full game of BulletStorm on this demo level that is clearly put together as - not an FPS challenge - but as a showcase for SkillShots, by which they are hoping to differentiate themselves from other FPS games.

edit: this was posted while I was writing this:

Blind_Evil wrote:

Kinda funny that I said I don't buy into this BS and someone posts this BS anyway.

I've tried insanity, said no thanks. Not fun.

You're clowning me. "Waaah the game's too easy, I can take the guys out of the fight with one button. Waaaah I put it on the mode where they actually require some thought and tactics to take out, it wasn't fun for me." And then you have the guts to act like:

a) I give a rat's pootootie that you gave the game 2 chances. Buddy, you're nobody, and I don't care if you gave it 40 chances - I was trying to help you get some enjoyment out of it, so don't throw that back in my face.

b) that I'm the one spouting BS? No one's saying the game is the second coming. I'm saying that the game has a mode that will allow the fights to be what you seem to want them to be: devoid of having a one button solution to every problem. How is that "B.S."? Because it's at a difficulty you don't normally play?

It seems we're approaching the same point from different sides.
Kind of diverting into Mass Effect, but I haven't played the Bulletstorm demo yet (and the xbox.com site is erroring out on me) so I'll go with what I know.

One one hand there's the game as it currently is, and to see all it has to offer you have to ramp up the difficulty. On the other you could modify the game so that all the features are available in whatever difficulty you want to play on.

The game will almost always let you progress through brute force, but will reward skilful play applying the right power to the right job, but in easier difficulties Bioware have just taken out that challenge completely, not even left in a weaker version of the same challenge.

HardlyWalken wrote:

Buddy, you're nobody

With that established, please disregard all of my posts going forward.

Who knew we had celebrities posting on our humble forum?

Ohhh, I missed that ad-hominem. Classy!

Isn't this game just the scoring system from Tony Hawk's bolted on to an FPS.

Can't say I thought the PS3 demo was up to much. Will give it a whirl on the PC once I've built my new machine.

Well, you did just call his opinion bullsh*t. If you don't want someone to say they don't care about your opinion, don't outright call their opinion worthless first.

For my part, I think both of you have at the very least a solid point, but also that both of you are doing something that I have a tendency to do myself... which is saying what you already think and then plugging your ears and shouting "everybody but me is wrong"

I actually got my xbox downloading the demo, so more on-topic discussion might be in my future. Assuming I don't get sidetracked by the pile of other games.

Thin_J wrote:

Well, you did just call his opinion bullsh*t. If you don't want someone to say they don't care about your opinion, don't outright call their opinion worthless first.

For my part, I think both of you have at the very least a solid point, but also that both of you are doing something that I have a tendency to do myself... which is saying what you already think and then plugging your ears and shouting "everybody but me is wrong" :P

First of all, thank you for pointing this out. I'm a nice guy and want to talk shop, but if you're going to throw a bratty little snit and take a fact-free dump on me in response to one of my points, I am going to ram it down your throat. It may be ad-hominem but it's a hit for a hit -- if you can't take it, then treat me with respect and I promise to do the same. I also promise to keep an open mind as long as we're not speaking in unanalyzable vagueries.

Secondly, I have accidently moved this toward Mass Effect 2 discussion which was not my intention. I apologize. Honestly it's not worth talking about. Let's focus on BulletStorm.

Finally, it's pretty obvious that BulletStorm's demo is not supposed to provide a challenge. It's supposed to let you, the potential buyer, gauge how much you like the SkillShot system and the game's purile sense of humour. I am really, really, really curious to see how the game plays on the PC (even though I enjoy them, I find console FPS games to be slightly sloppy even in the best of cases and BulletStorm seems like the kind of game to reward precision) and how the difficulty ramps up in the final version.

HardlyWalken wrote:

First of all, thank you for pointing this out. I'm a nice guy and want to talk shop, but if you're going to throw a bratty little snit and take a fact-free dump on me in response to one of my points, I am going to ram it down your throat. It may be ad-hominem but it's a hit for a hit -- if you can't take it, then treat me with respect and I promise to do the same. I also promise to keep an open mind as long as we're not speaking in unanalyzable vagueries.

In Blind_Evil's defense, I think he's had a fill of the 'You're playing it wrong' angle from the Mass Effect 2 thread, even though I happen to agree. So the spill over was probably unwelcome.

Definitely time to move on.

I'm very curious about Bulletstorm, and the score attack aspects, but definitely on a wait and see mode until after launch.

but if you're going to throw a bratty little snit and take a fact-free dump on me in response to one of my points, I am going to ram it down your throat. It may be ad-hominem but it's a hit for a hit -- if you can't take it, then treat me with respect and I promise to do the same.

Just a note from your friendly neighborhood moderator. The burden of being respectful is not on other people, but on you. An eye for an eye might work on the playground, it doesn't mean squat here. If you perceive slights and fly off the handle constantly, you won't be posting here. We expect everyone to be respectful and keep it friendly.