8-Year-Old Accidentally Kills Self at Gun Show

Pages

Link

The story is an 8-year-old was trying a submachine gun under supervision at a legal firing range at a gun show. He lost control of the weapon, the recoil pulled the muzzle toward his head, and, well... Threat title. No word on which weapon it was, whether or not he was using a stock, or if it was set to burst/auto, etc. The article calls it an "Uzi" but who knows if that's accurate. I mean, some sources are already calling it a "machine gun."

I'm kind of wondering how they really expected a small child to be able to handle the kick of an automatic weapon. I'll let our resident gun experts take it from here.

I'm a member at the range where this happened, though I wasn't there this weekend. To those in charge I would like to say, "WAY TO GO YOU GOD DAMN RETARDS!" And condolences to the family of the child, who will no doubt sue us.

I'm with Bedurn on this one. WTF!!!!

As a class three license holder and aspiring machinegun owner, all I can say about this is WTF!!! I hope to gods that they drag that "certified instructor" to prison.

Wow. Just... wow. Somebody f*cked up royally to let the kid try that gun out on that setting.

Paleocon wrote:
I hope to gods that they drag that "certified instructor" to prison.

Agreed. That's just horrible.

Sorry to hear about that, JB. I hope this turns out for the best for you.

Having actually shot that exact submachinegun, I can tell you with absolute certainty that an 8 year old simply does not have the combination of body mass, upper body strength, muscle control, and temperament to operate that firearm in a safe manner. It would be like handing an 8 year old one of these.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Sorry to hear about that, JB. I hope this turns out for the best for you.

I've got no liability here, so my worst case scenario is that I have to find a new place to shoot.

Farscry wrote:
Wow. Just... wow. Somebody f*cked up royally to let the kid try that gun out on that setting. :(

And this is exactly the problem with what they did. The actual specifics of the situation won't matter, because if you wandered around the world asking people 'Hey, should I let an 8 year old shoot a machine pistol?' my money's good on the answer being a resounding 'What are you stupid or something?'

That's just a bizarre accident. With an instructor standing right there I can barely imagine how it could've happened. There's no doubt that this was a decision of monumental stupidity to let a child that age handle a weapon like that on that setting but it's still hard to see happening unless the people around him just weren't paying the kind of attention they needed to. You know, hands near the weapon ready to grab it as soon as it started to go astray, that sort of thing. But either way the kid never should've been in this position.

I mean, my dad's a gun collector and I was raised around firearms all my life. At age 5 I was shooting rifles and at 10 I was shooting stuff like Thompson's but never on fully automatic and certainly not without my dad there an arm's length away.

JoeBedurndurn wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:
Sorry to hear about that, JB. I hope this turns out for the best for you.

I've got no liability here, so my worst case scenario is that I have to find a new place to shoot.

Yeah, I didn't think you were liable or anything, just thought it might suck if the club was shut down or slapped with an expensive lawsuit or something.

JoeBedurndurn wrote:
The actual specifics of the situation won't matter, because if you wandered around the world asking people 'Hey, should I let an 8 year old shoot a machine pistol?' and money's good on the answer being a resounding 'What are you stupid or something?'

Well, depending on the kid, the training, and the situation, I don't actually think it's necessarily stupid. But just from a read on the article, it sounds to me that they just didn't have things setup right for the kid to safely handle the gun at that time.

When you have the actual facts of the situation, if you're free to relay them to us, I for one would be interested in hearing the specifics on how this actually happened.

[edit]Ah, good info to have Paleo. Sounds like it was a bad situation to begin with then. [/edit]

What a senseless tragedy.

My prayers go to the family of that child.

My second reaction is that this is either 1) a total freak accident, or 2) lack of supervision from the instructor, and my instinct is to lean toward the first. The problem is that this will be a scapegoat for anti gun rights activisits to smear their opponents, which is sad.

For folks who have never actually shot a firearm on full auto, the experience is ENTIRELY different from anything you think you may know about firearms. With a semi auto, your body positioning is critical for shot after shot accuracy, but not particularly important in your ability to handle the firearm safely. I see folks routinely lean back away from a pistol for instance and they aren't in any particular danger.

Autos are completely different. The accumulated recoil has a torquing effect very similar to operating a jackhammer or high output chainsaw. It is critically important to square off, solidify your stance, and lean into the firearm as you control your bursts. This requires muscle control, body mass, upper body strength, and the ability to stay calm despite having a chain of multiple possibly deadly explosions going off in your hands and near your face.

That is clearly not 8 year old territory.

What we've actually done in the past is have some .22 rifles available for young kids to shoot. The rifles there have a couple of extra loops attached to the stock and we steel cable them to the bench so that they can't be rotated or elevated to point anywhere unsafe, because we're normally smart.

*sigh*

Instructor incompetence. If a child is firing full auto then your hands must be on the weapon. The only exception is when the weapon is properly mounted on a vehicle or tripod.

That's really sad.

My thoughts go out to all parties involved.

Members from NE Shooters were there and at least one of them is saying that it was a micro-uzi. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock was folded as well.

JoeBedurndurn wrote:
What we've actually done in the past is have some .22 rifles available for young kids to shoot. The rifles there have a couple of extra loops attached to the stock and we steel cable them to the bench so that they can't be rotated or elevated to point anywhere unsafe, because we're normally smart.

*sigh*

At 8, I think he'd be better off shooting BBs, not even .22s.

CannibalCrowley wrote:
Members from NE Shooters were there and at least one of them is saying that it was a micro-uzi. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock was folded as well.

Holy Carp! Words can not express the level of irresponsibility demonstrated here.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
JoeBedurndurn wrote:
What we've actually done in the past is have some .22 rifles available for young kids to shoot. The rifles there have a couple of extra loops attached to the stock and we steel cable them to the bench so that they can't be rotated or elevated to point anywhere unsafe, because we're normally smart.

*sigh*

At 8, I think he'd be better off shooting BBs, not even .22s.

From my own personal experience, adult supervised, small caliber rifle firing is pretty darn safe (and the cabled down, adult supervised example safer still), though you are certainly welcome to your own opinion. I certainly won't argue that even weaker weapons are less safe (though my father tells me that he and his idiot friends used to shoot each other with BB guns as kids).

Paleocon wrote:
CannibalCrowley wrote:
Members from NE Shooters were there and at least one of them is saying that it was a micro-uzi. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock was folded as well.

Holy Carp! Words can not express the level of irresponsibility demonstrated here.

That's damn near a contraption designed to rotate in your hand.

JoeBedurndurn wrote:
Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
JoeBedurndurn wrote:
What we've actually done in the past is have some .22 rifles available for young kids to shoot. The rifles there have a couple of extra loops attached to the stock and we steel cable them to the bench so that they can't be rotated or elevated to point anywhere unsafe, because we're normally smart.

*sigh*

At 8, I think he'd be better off shooting BBs, not even .22s.

From my own personal experience, adult supervised, small caliber rifle firing is pretty darn safe (and the cabled down, adult supervised example safer still), though you are certainly welcome to your own opinion. I certainly won't argue that even weaker weapons are less safe (though my father tells me that he and his idiot friends used to shoot each other with BB guns as kids).

I wonder if he lived in my neighborhood. We used to shoot each other all the time.

Paleocon wrote:
It would be like handing an 8 year old one of these.

I was thinking the same thing. It'd be like giving an 8 year-old a gas-operated chainsaw. Not safe no matter how closely you're watching, hands-off.

I heard this on the radio this morning, and my reaction mirrored most of yours. At best, it's a tragedy and a colossal level of irresponsibility. I think a plinking .22 might be fine for a kid if you want to show him the hobby. Anything with an "Auto" setting seems just a tad much.

If you terrorize kids about gun safety, they can handle a .22 single-shot rifle fine. I was shooting those at 13 at Scout camp. They have almost no kick. Particularly when they start you out prone, it's quite, quite safe.

But a machine gun? At EIGHT? What.the.FSCK. That's among the worst f*ckups I've ever heard about. There are Darwin awards for people substantially less stupid than that.

Seriously. This is beyond colossally stupid. It has to be criminally irresponsible.

As a class three license holder, I hope they hang that bastage from the nearest lamppost. That fcuktard very well may have ruined it for the rest of us.

It does point out how safe ranges are in general; you just never hear about serious injuries. There's a LOT of them in this country, and a lot of ammunition getting fired, and injuries are exceedingly rare.

Hopefully, with this being right before the election, with the Republicans still in power for a few more months, the backlash, if any, will be muted.

I bet Rosie O'Donnell is already firin' up the base.

Come on, the guy's had a pretty rough time. This is one case where it's more sad than outrageous, because the event itself is more than punishment enough. He's lost his son; I don't see any benefit in beating up on him.

What a sad story. But it deserves compassion more than scorn.

Pages