Tomb Raider reboot

WipEout wrote:

I saw a total of three QTEs

I think three QTEs in a five minute demo is quite a lot but even if you take them out it just funnels you too much. If the rest of the game is nothing like that then why did you show that part off? If the rest of the game is like that then there's no game there.

I've been pretty skeptical about this game, but I liked what they showed so far. I actually really liked the way that Lara talked to herself, cried out in fear and pain, and otherwise made noise as she moved around. It went a long way toward establishing her character and her feelings in the situation.

It's still a game, just not the game you hoped/expected/wanted. Definitely not a game that'd be very much in line with Tomb Raider, that's for sure. And thanks for quoting only part of what I was saying-- you know, the whole bit where I argued against the claim that those could really be considered QTEs?

Well I still think they're QTEs but my fingers hurt and I don't want to type much
Honestly

Here's my interpretation of that video.

QTE count: 0

Prompt of which button to use to perform an unusual verb count: 11

01:41 (X) (pull metal spike out of side)
02:10 (X) (take torch from wall)
02:35 (RT) (light torch from brazier)
02:50 (LS) (shove attacker away with feet)
03:44 (RT) (light torch from brazier)
03:56 (RT) (light rope with torch)
04:07 (RT) (light box with torch)
04:32 (??) (charge forward to push grate)
05:28 (LS) (shove attacker away with feet)
05:29 (X) (kick at attacker)
05:48 (LT/RT) (clamber up slick slope)

There's one "unusual verb" that feels maybe a little QTE-like to me, the (X) to kick at attacker in the middle of the (LS) to shove him away. However, it's hard to say exactly how that would work—it could be that if you don't get the timing right, you just need to keep using (LS) until you get another chance, for example.

I will also note that the ENTIRE section immediately before that of running through tunnels with stuff collapsing would have been a QTE in older games. Instead, movement is handled normally here.

I'm not really concerned about these prompts. It seems clear to me that (LT/RT) are involved in using weapons/items held in hands (in general, using your hands), (LS) is used to move around (move your feet), and (X) is the general "interact with the environment" button. All of the prompts we see are for specific cases of those, and they're very consistent. Every button embodies some subset of the available verbs, and the on-screen prompts are meant to show you what verb is available right now (and some of those prompts may go away after the intro.)

How this is different from QTEs: First, it appears that the majority of movement is left up to you. This isn't "you're in the middle of a cutscene where the character is running around without your input and now you suddenly have to press a button." You're in control the whole time. The verbs that are absolutely universal (movement) are up to you unless your movement is constrained (a guy grabbed you), and it's illustrating the stuff that's specific to the moment. Second, the buttons you have to press make sense from a "yeah, that's what you do if you want to move your feet" point of view. Unlike in a QTE, where even though X would normally mean "interact" and now it means "jump to the left!" Finally, it is unclear that any of the situations we saw were instant-death scenarios. In a QTE, if you fail once, you frequently die right there, and have to start the QTE over again from the beginning. It's an exercise in reaction time and memory, and that's it. Here, it could just be that the person playing doesn't fail, but it could also be that failure isn't nearly as "instant" as in a QTE. When you don't have an entire scripted cut scene, it's much easier to show different things happening—when you *do* have an entire scripted cut scene, you make every "action" be win-or-lose, because that way you only have to set up the "winning path" and the "losing path" for each action.

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The setup looks interesting. Perhaps a little too linear in this part, but... this is the very start of the game, and he was playing through it fast to demonstrate it in a timely way. It certainly does not look like it's full of QTEs.

Besides Farcry 3, this is the was my favorite game presentation of E3 2011. If they wouldn't have solved that second puzzle so fast, no doubt in the interest of time, I would've been invested in every second I was shown. I'm pretty much sold.

Eidos put up a great big FAQ on their forum.

Scratched wrote:

Eidos put up a great big FAQ on their forum.

Sounds good, and I liked that they clarified in what ways scripted or directed mechanics and events come into place. Things are directed, but they're trying hard to make them feel organic.

Now that Lara is so much more humanized, what's the potential to see her get involved in any relationships?

KS: I’ve read and fed into the script now on many, many occasions, and I can tell you that there is no love interest in this game. She is trying to survive. She is busy. Surviving the situation is all she can cope with right now; surviving a relationship would be a bit tough. In one of the next releases we could possibly see this more human Lara meet someone, but that is way over the horizon

I hope they stick to their guns on this one.

Don't know how I missed this until now, but I love the environment design.

cyrax wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Eidos put up a great big FAQ on their forum.

Sounds good, and I liked that they clarified in what ways scripted or directed mechanics and events come into place. Things are directed, but they're trying hard to make them feel organic.

Good! Not like Uncharted 3 when you can jump on a flaming chandelier that will "fall any second" but hang there for 20 minutes while you eat dinner, then come back and the instant you jump to the wall, it falls.

cyrax wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Eidos put up a great big FAQ on their forum.

Sounds good, and I liked that they clarified in what ways scripted or directed mechanics and events come into place. Things are directed, but they're trying hard to make them feel organic.

After the 'directed' experience I had in Battlefield 3 single player I'm going to be very wary of this game. To be fair they'd have to try really hard to be as bad as that experience.

cyrax wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Eidos put up a great big FAQ on their forum.

Sounds good, and I liked that they clarified in what ways scripted or directed mechanics and events come into place. Things are directed, but they're trying hard to make them feel organic.

Could you quote the part you mean? I couldn't find it.
"Directed" moments are my biggest worry with this game, it's the opposite of what makes me like TR.

kyrieee wrote:
cyrax wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Eidos put up a great big FAQ on their forum.

Sounds good, and I liked that they clarified in what ways scripted or directed mechanics and events come into place. Things are directed, but they're trying hard to make them feel organic.

Could you quote the part you mean? I couldn't find it.
"Directed" moments are my biggest worry with this game, it's the opposite of what makes me like TR.

I was mentioning, in general, some semi-dynamic things they were doing, like the weather (and one or two other examples I don't remember.)

The pre-E3 'Crossroads' trailer feels very spoilery. I generally don't worry about spoilers in games but it seemed to be showing you the resolutions to what would otherwise be tense experiences.

You know, I'm still looking forward to this game but this new trailer makes me uneasy. It really looks like they're going for a bit of an extreme turmoil angle, almost Far Cry 3 in the level of f*cked up it is. I'm all for a darker Tomb Raider but I wonder if they're going too far here.

Something I wonder about is that trailer has a fair amount of interaction with people in it, and previous TRs have been fairly solitary experiences. Having said that, I expect there's a fair amount of 'sizzle' in that trailer to make it look good, which may be quite different to if they had just posted 5 minutes of typical gameplay.

I'm more concerned that a lot of what they showed are going to be QTE driven "setpiece" moments or trial and error "stealth" sections that end up being frustrating. It looks impressive graphically, and I like the idea of showing how this character turns into the person we're all familiar with, but the violence looks really disturbing and I'd like to see a more extended gameplay clip.

Higgledy wrote:

The pre-E3 'Crossroads' trailer feels very spoilery. I generally don't worry about spoilers in games but it seemed to be showing you the resolutions to what would otherwise be tense experiences.

Yeah, I was surprised how much they (unfortunately) showed. I also didn't think the trailer was edited well at all. They showed so much in so little time, most of it being action. The quick cuts didn't leave any time for suspense to build. It just felt like an average Micheal Bay trailer, which is to say not good.

I don't mind the disturbing violence, because violence (and nasty injury) should be disturbing. That kind of depends how it's handled in the game though.

The more recent crystal dynamics TRs aren't new to using QTEs, hopefully they tie them into the game well and they're not disjointed. In a game that has often featured instant deaths that you need to try over and over again, I think there's room for manoeuvre there.

I don't really mind the violence, and it's an interesting transition for her - but it seems like that level of violence is going to turn her into a much more hardened individual than we all know... of course, it is a reboot. Still, that steel bar that impales her toward the beginning looks like it goes through her kidney, and I'm kind of surprised she's moving around so well after that.

MannishBoy wrote:

Man, that looks like an awesome movie. I hope they make a game out of it some time.

I don't mind that the violence is disturbing, but if it's fetishized that's where I get a little uneasy. I'm excited to play the game, and I agree that the QTE's and trial & error sequences are nothing new. I would just prefer to see them removed from the series.

I'm just glad they made Lara sound less like she was having sex than last year's trailer. Except for the part where they didn't when the video starts.

The violence and over-all grimness stands out to me because it seems so uncharacteristically brutal for the traditionally silly TR. But, it did look neat, sort of had an early Lost vibe, in a way. I hope they go that route, and make things weird and baroque rather than having these baddies just be a gang of pirates or something.

Gee, I wonder if Uncharted's reluctant/clumsy hero had any influence on the development of this game?

Honestly, the trailer really reads like they want to cash in on the popularity of the Uncharted games-- massive action-packed set pieces, a reluctant hero constantly getting the crap kicked out of him/her but surviving against all odds... The big difference I see (aside from this hero being a woman) is that the story and violence appear far darker than Naughty Dog's takes on pulp treasure hunting adventures.

I'm interested in this, but probably less so since I recently finished the first two Uncharted games and see quite a few parallels. I'll admit, it'll be interesting to see a Lara Croft that isn't immediately an "empowered" pair of breasts carrying big guns.

To be fair, nothing exists in a vacuum, pretty much everything is influenced by everything else. I haven't played any of the Uncharted games, so it's all going to be fresh and new to me.

I think they are going for the Lost/Bermuda triangle angle with the plot, with wrecks from lots of eras drawn to the island to be wrecked. If I had to guess I'd say that the 'bad guys' are fellow shipwrecked who use nastier tactics than the group Lara seems to ally herself with. I'm also keeping my mind open that they're not telling us everything and the plot will develop through the game, so I'm sure it introduces Lara to raiding tombs to get to the bottom of it, and there's some ancient magic behind it all.

WipEout wrote:

Gee, I wonder if Uncharted's reluctant/clumsy hero had any influence on the development of this game? :)

Well, to be fair, Uncharted was a modernized version of TR cross bred with Indiana Jones.

So basically, much of modern gaming really owes a big debt to Secret of the Incas.