The Big Gun Control Thread

OG_slinger wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

What I am also struggling with, are which fire-arm manufacturers are standing for responsible gun ownership and use.

Likely none that are publicly traded or owned by investment bankers. Profit must come first and profit means selling more and more firearms. And they also don't have to worry about liability or getting sued because Congress has specifically exempted them.

I think the only meaningful measure of how "responsible" a particular weapons manufacturer might be isn't to be found in a policy statement but in it's catalog of weapons for sale. What they sell and how they choose to market is pretty much all that matters.

I like to trace political contributions. And there are plenty of places like Follow the Money that can help you to do that.

I'd like to trace which manufacturer's weapons are used in crimes. Alas, the NRA has made it illegal for the BATF to spend any money to make that information available to researchers or the public.

If the gun manufacturers and the NRA continue to ignore reasonable efforts at reform, maybe it's time to give hunters and shooters an alternative to the status quo.

Statistics show there's a vast supply of previously owned weapons available from both individuals and the retail market. Maybe responsible gun buyers should purchase their next weapon the same way responsible pet owners find their next best friend: through an adoption process.

Congress could amend existing law to create a new class of federal firearm license for gun adoption dealers who would specialize in the purchase and resale of used firearms ONLY for the gun adoption marketplace. In exchange for specific tax advantages, these license holders would not be allowed to sell or otherwise transfer ownership of new weapons. To protect buyers, purchased weapons would go though a thorough a mandatory and detailed sanity check to make sure any weapon sold is in proper working order. Additionally, each weapon would go though a background check of it's serial number and a ballistics check to see if it might have been involved in a known crime. At a minimum, the serial number, a spent shell casing, and fired bullet would be kept on file by the gun adoption dealer until the background check could be completed. Regardless, a key advantage of buying though the adoption dealers would be a waver of criminal liability for any illegal use of the weapon prior to adoption. Once cleared for resale, the weapon would be added to inventory for sale to any qualified buyer. At time of sale, existing law would apply. All buyers would go through the existing Federal instant background check system as well as any additional state or local ownership requirements. The expense of inspecting weapons and performing background checks would be paid for by the buyer at a uniform rate in much the same way that States which require annual vehicle inspections allow garages to collect a fee for performing the necessary diagnostics. In the end, buyers benefit by having some assurance they are buying a safe and functional weapon, the government gets a crack at screening for weapons involved in crimes, and buyers receive liability protection for the occasional weapon that may have a troubled past.

Obviously, not everyone will want to participate in this adoption marketplace for various reasons. However, I suspect enough buyers will see the advantages to make the adoption marketplace viable.

That is my thinking. But as Macabre as it sounds, you think about this stuff when a parent dies. When my dad shuffles off this mortal coil, I inherit some 5-6 hunting rifles and shotguns. He might very well sell them off at some time.

The North Carolina GOP has passed a bill allowed concealed carry in bars, playgrounds, among other locations:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...

Tanglebones wrote:

The North Carolina GOP has passed a bill allowed concealed carry in bars, playgrounds, among other locations:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...

Bars: Obviously guns and alcohol should mix... after all, we have a government agency that covers both. Add in some tobacco and you're golden.

Playgrounds: Guns at a place built for kids... why not?

*sigh*

Demosthenes wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

The North Carolina GOP has passed a bill allowed concealed carry in bars, playgrounds, among other locations:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...

Bars: Obviously guns and alcohol should mix... after all, we have a government agency that covers both. Add in some tobacco and explosives and you're golden.

Playgrounds: Guns at a place built for kids... why not?

*sigh*

FTFY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_...

Nevermind.

Well how else are you going to keep those kids in line?

"Hey! Billy! That was a warning shot, throw sand again and you're getting more than just a flesh wound!"

Worked out great for Wild Bill.

ruhk wrote:

Well how else are you going to keep those kids in line?

"Hey! Billy! That was a warning shot, throw sand again and you're getting more than just a flesh wound!"

Kids can play "Shoot the Can" and "Hoop and Shotgun" like we did when we were kids!

I wonder if they found an insurance company that will cover them now.

Ya know that most sheriff's deputies and prison guards are not allowed to carry guns while inside?

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

They could get those Judge Dredd guns that are DNA-coded with little key chain clippies to tie them to themselves.

Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Seems a pretty good chance that at some point a teacher or staff member is going to fail to secure their weapon properly and a student will inadvertently be armed. Hopefully he or she won't inadvertently shoot someone.

lostlobster wrote:
Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Seems a pretty good chance that at some point a teacher or staff member is going to fail to secure their weapon properly and a student will inadvertently be armed. Hopefully he or she won't inadvertently shoot someone.

Considering all the stories I hear about folks leaving their Glocks resting on toilet paper dispensers in public restrooms, I think the chances of the above happening with regularity are pretty freaking high.

Paleocon wrote:
lostlobster wrote:
Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Seems a pretty good chance that at some point a teacher or staff member is going to fail to secure their weapon properly and a student will inadvertently be armed. Hopefully he or she won't inadvertently shoot someone.

Considering all the stories I hear about folks leaving their Glocks resting on toilet paper dispensers in public restrooms, I think the chances of the above happening with regularity are pretty freaking high.

I think it's funny how we would expect teachers to be that cognizant of it with everything going on while a lobbyist for the gun industry had a gun stolen from him because he thought it was "secure" in a case in the trunk of his car.

Demosthenes wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
lostlobster wrote:
Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Seems a pretty good chance that at some point a teacher or staff member is going to fail to secure their weapon properly and a student will inadvertently be armed. Hopefully he or she won't inadvertently shoot someone.

Considering all the stories I hear about folks leaving their Glocks resting on toilet paper dispensers in public restrooms, I think the chances of the above happening with regularity are pretty freaking high.

I think it's funny how we would expect teachers to be that cognizant of it with everything going on while a lobbyist for the gun industry had a gun stolen from him because he thought it was "secure" in a case in the trunk of his car.

It was in a case in the back seat of his car. With the window down.

Edwin wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
lostlobster wrote:
Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Seems a pretty good chance that at some point a teacher or staff member is going to fail to secure their weapon properly and a student will inadvertently be armed. Hopefully he or she won't inadvertently shoot someone.

Considering all the stories I hear about folks leaving their Glocks resting on toilet paper dispensers in public restrooms, I think the chances of the above happening with regularity are pretty freaking high.

I think it's funny how we would expect teachers to be that cognizant of it with everything going on while a lobbyist for the gun industry had a gun stolen from him because he thought it was "secure" in a case in the trunk of his car.

It was in a case in the back seat of his car. With the window down.

...I knew it was worse than trunk, but felt like I might be remembering a joke about how it could have been less secure than that... but didn't want to say that and get myself in trouble for remembering wrong.

It was the Seattle PD that left an AR on the trunk and someone walked by to call it in.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc...

Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

You go to a public school in the ghetto and try and tell the difference.

But more of a thought exercise. When to we peak peak gun crime? Sort of like Peak Oil-the tipping point. When schools started making random locker searches and metal detectors standards, this was not the tipping point. Columbine, Newtown-not yet.

A weekend course and a holstered pistol is a good thing?

Any other problems with armed guards in Arkansas public schools that anyone remembers from history class? Arkansas is stating that there is more risk to students in 2013 from gun violence, than when the National Guard was called in in the 50's and 60's. That is f*cking scary. The risk of gun crazed lunatics thanks to lax policies is so grave, that every student is at as much a risk of bodily harm as black students on the first week of integration in the deep south.

lostlobster wrote:
Robear wrote:

Isn't that more to prevent, well, inadvertently arming the prisoners?

Seems a pretty good chance that at some point a teacher or staff member is going to fail to secure their weapon properly and a student will inadvertently be armed. Hopefully he or she won't inadvertently shoot someone.

That would never happen.

Oh, wait -- it already did.

I still think it's hilarious that most Repubs can't say enough bad things about teachers but it's okay for them to have loaded firearms around children.

The worst fear of a Republican and they made it. An armed Teacher's Union.

It's those damned Obama Socialist Fascists. How can we ever stop them?

She deserves her own thread. Antoinette Tuff is a superhero.

http://newsone.com/2689375/antoinett...

Edit - kind of a bad link. Anyway Tuff was taken hostage in a school by a gunman and single handedly talked him down and saved tons of kids. Zero kids shot.

Tuff indeed.

Seth wrote:

She deserves her own thread. Antoinette Tuff is a superhero.

http://newsone.com/2689375/antoinett...

Edit - kind of a bad link. Anyway Tuff was taken hostage in a school by a gunman and single handedly talked him down and saved tons of kids. Zero kids shot.

Tuff indeed.

Tuff demonstrates the effectiveness of old school police negotiation. You know, without being police though.

Nowadays, we serve non-violent warrants with home invasions, flashbangs and machineguns.

Seth wrote:

She deserves her own thread. Antoinette Tuff is a superhero.

http://newsone.com/2689375/antoinett...

Edit - kind of a bad link. Anyway Tuff was taken hostage in a school by a gunman and single handedly talked him down and saved tons of kids. Zero kids shot.

Tuff indeed.

She sounds pretty soft on crime to me.