Come fellow firearm owners, we must chat.

I don't even know where to start. I have read page after page after page. He is my first shot.....

I love guns. I have an extensive collection of about 45 items. It is fairly equally split between pistols, rifles and shotguns. I have target rifles and pistols. Hunting rifles and pistols. Plinkers for everything. I have scopes, red dot, reflex sights, irons and fiber optic. I have black rifles and boltys. Revolvers and pistols. In 2011 I made the move for my fist suppressor. I now have four with another pending.

I do a fair amount of my own gunsmithing and am just getting into reloading. I hunt, target shoot and plink. I was an ammo hoarder before it became cool. I could never buy another round and likely not run out unless the zombies come.

I just discovered the Appleseed project. I would love to do this, but there is not one within 200 miles of Houston. WTF?! My biggest problem would be to shoot 22, 223 or 300wm.

I will catch up on individual posts as I can. Enjoy!

My very first forum post here on GWJ was a comment on the outstanding quality of this particular topic thread. The frequency of posts has slowed down lately but it's still well worth following.

Actually, given the amazing range of gaming and non-gaming topics discussed, I consider the GWJ site to be one of the best destinations on the Internet.

I am with you on that ringsnort. I have still not even posted in any of the gaming threads. So far only knives and guns. I hope to get a little more interest in this thread. I feel I have much to add to the knowledge base and love talking guns and all forms of shooting.

Going to the range tomorrow for the first time in a long time, taking a friend from work who has never fired a gun before. I'll take some pictures.

Cool. Wake range?

Yes, the Wake range (we got our cards on Wednesday). It was quite nice and very crowded - probably ~100 people there for our entire 2 hour session. The whole range is indoors but well ventilated, so it was pretty cold inside; however, the heaters above the shooting positions were working which made it nicely tolerable. In addition to many pistol shooters there were a number of people shooting much more interesting things like a 1901 Springfield, what I think was a Mauser k98, an M1 carbine, and various AR-15 types.

We put about 250 rounds through my Glock 23, and an acquaintance lent my coworker a Gen 4 Glock 19 for a few rounds so he could feel the difference. My aimed shooting is fine, but my instinctive and double-tapping is seriously ugly. :\ Also, I was so focused on making sure I was adhering to the range rules that I forgot to take pictures, so there aren't any - I'll try to get some next time.

I am jealous for the range trip. I had planned to shoot a steel challenge fun match Saturday morning, but ended up working in the yard all weekend.

I am not a Glock guy. Is there that much difference between the Gen 3 and Gen 4? I have an Xd 45 and XdM 9 and love both. I have also shot a M&P and it compares well with the XD mdoels. I may get an M&P with a threaded barrel in the near future to go with the SWR Octane 45 suppressor I am waiting on a stamp for.

fishdude wrote:

I am jealous for the range trip. I had planned to shoot a steel challenge fun match Saturday morning, but ended up working in the yard all weekend.

I am not a Glock guy. Is there that much difference between the Gen 3 and Gen 4? I have an Xd 45 and XdM 9 and love both. I have also shot a M&P and it compares well with the XD mdoels. I may get an M&P with a threaded barrel in the near future to go with the SWR Octane 45 suppressor I am waiting on a stamp for.

I haven't shot in a while, but I used to shoot quite a bit with leo folks with issue guns from both Glock and Springfield. Of the two, if I had to choose between one striker fire and another, I would probably go with the Croatian over the Austrian. It benefits from a couple of decades of "watch and see" and blueprinted itself from the ground up after becoming aware of the shortcomings in the first couple generations of Glock design. The addition of the grip safety and charged chamber indicator address the most common complaints of the Glock "safe action" system.

All that being said, I still find I shoot a whole lot better with a hammer than without one. For me, despite the fact that the company sucks ass when it comes to treating its customers with dignity and respect, the HK is the gun for me.

Those were my thoughts exactly when I went with a Xd. The Xd 45 is my EDC. I got one of the new XdM Competition 9mm to start shooting IDPA and maybe some IPSC. My go to gun when I want to go shoot for fun is still my 1911 custom that I lovingly call Frankenpistol. I built all of it except the slide. It is a Colt frame with a Springfield slide. Shoots insanely well and feeds anything I want through it.

I have shot a couple of HK, mainly a USP compact in 9 and 40. Loved them. If I wasn't dedicated to the Xd as my EDC, I would very easily get the compact in 9 or 40 to be the new EDC. I also looked at some of the newer Walthers. If I was going to spend that much, I still go with HK.

fishdude wrote:

Those were my thoughts exactly when I went with a Xd. The Xd 45 is my EDC. I got one of the new XdM Competition 9mm to start shooting IDPA and maybe some IPSC. My go to gun when I want to go shoot for fun is still my 1911 custom that I lovingly call Frankenpistol. I built all of it except the slide. It is a Colt frame with a Springfield slide. Shoots insanely well and feeds anything I want through it.

I have shot a couple of HK, mainly a USP compact in 9 and 40. Loved them. If I wasn't dedicated to the Xd as my EDC, I would very easily get the compact in 9 or 40 to be the new EDC. I also looked at some of the newer Walthers. If I was going to spend that much, I still go with HK.

My buddy with nearly 30 years of le experience who now trains federal le officers tells me that the XDm is the gun he most often recommends for police departments. It is, out of the box, more reliable, easier to master, and harder to f* up than just about any duty firearm on the planet. It shoots accurately enough. The controls are ergonomically well thought out. And ambidexterous operation requires no special thinking (unlike the Sig firearms which are notoriously right handed).

All of that said, he still carries an HK.

edit: I will save you the scrolling back to the beginning of this thread to illuminate you on the numerous shortcomings of the HK.

I hate the fact that the company deliberately made magazines from the full sized incompatible with the magazines from the compact. I hate that the company deliberately made the accessory rail on the USP different and proprietary so it won't take standard accessories from third party manufacturers. I hate that the company makes replacement parts nearly impossible to come by. I hate that the company spitefully voids warranties for meaningless crap like attaching a "non approved" threaded suppressor. Mostly, I hate the full on arrogance of those damned self-superior Germans who think that excellence in design gives them the privilege to treat their customers like medieval serfs.

That and I hate myself for liking their gun so much.

fishdude wrote:

I am not a Glock guy. Is there that much difference between the Gen 3 and Gen 4? I have an Xd 45 and XdM 9 and love both. I have also shot a M&P and it compares well with the XD mdoels. I may get an M&P with a threaded barrel in the near future to go with the SWR Octane 45 suppressor I am waiting on a stamp for.

As for the differences between the Gen 3 and Gen 4 Glocks, it depends on the model. The Glock 21 has a major difference in the grip. I can easily get my hands around a Gen 4 Glock 21, but I can't comfortably hold a Gen 3 21.

I've got a full size M&P 9 that is my carry gun. It's a great gun, though the stock trigger kind of sucks, but a lot of those flaws can be rectified with some drop-in parts from Apex.

bennard wrote:
fishdude wrote:

I am not a Glock guy. Is there that much difference between the Gen 3 and Gen 4? I have an Xd 45 and XdM 9 and love both. I have also shot a M&P and it compares well with the XD mdoels. I may get an M&P with a threaded barrel in the near future to go with the SWR Octane 45 suppressor I am waiting on a stamp for.

As for the differences between the Gen 3 and Gen 4 Glocks, it depends on the model. The Glock 21 has a major difference in the grip. I can easily get my hands around a Gen 4 Glock 21, but I can't comfortably hold a Gen 3 21.

I've got a full size M&P 9 that is my carry gun. It's a great gun, though the stock trigger kind of sucks, but a lot of those flaws can be rectified with some drop-in parts from Apex.

How do you carry a full sized concealed in Florida? That thing has got to print like you're trying to shoplift a box of cereal.

Stuff Paleo said....

That and I hate myself for liking their gun so much.

I have been fortunate to never have to deal with HK. All of the ones I have shot belonged to someone else. Not using standard 1913 rails is stupid. There is a reason that it the standard. There are numerous things I refuse to purchase because they choose to do/use some proprietary bullsh*t. I am now adding HK to that list.

Paleocon wrote:

How do you carry a full sized concealed in Florida? That thing has got to print like you're trying to shoplift a box of cereal.

Not as much as you'd think. I generally use an IWB holster similar to the Crossbreed Supertuck. During the summer, I'll throw on a slightly oversized Hawaiian shirt (or something similar) and that keeps it concealed pretty well.

Same here. I use a IWB from Comp-Tac for my 4" Xd45. Oversized shirt works great.

I suspect that it is a lot more noticeable than you might think it is, especially when seated, leaning over a counter, or reaching for anything. I have tried all manner of different carry options for my USP45 and unless I am standing stock upright and perfectly still, it prints like a neon sign screaming "GUN GUN GUN".

When I do carry, I find that my 686 snubby in a pancake works pretty well.

Very true. If I know I will be sitting a lot, I switch to my SW 642 in a pocket. I also noticed that Ruger is now making an LC45 sub compact. Might just switch completely.

Knock on wood, I have not ever had a problem with someone spotting a printed outline.

That 642 is an outstanding carry piece and despite the basic design being over 60 years old, it still rocks every requirement of concealed carry in a way that even modern pieces can't touch.

Unless you are in law enforcement, your chances of needing more than the first couple shots ever are going to be so far in the statistical noise that magazine capacity and/or reload time is not a terribly huge concern. And if it is, that 642 is small and light enough that you can pretty well solve it by carrying another piece. Nothing reloads as fast as a second gun.

Nothing beats the reliability of a DAO revolver.... except a hammerless DAO revolver. Firing it from a jacket pocket runs no risk of jamming (semis constantly run that risk from either failure to eject or failure to return fully to battery and hammered wheelguns run the minor risk of material catching on the hammer). Furthermore, the remedy for striking a bad primer is simply to pull the trigger again to advance to the next round in sequence. No rack, tap, squeeze.

It isn't going to win any accuracy contests, but if your mission is purely concealed self defense, the limited accurate range and magazine capacity actually instill an external discipline that define your tactical options -- and thus your level of engagement. This is not a piece you draw to stalk someone. It is a belly gun you use to defend yourself when truly threatened.

If I were in the habit of carrying regularly, that would be my piece of choice.

Bingo. Combine all of that with very good loadings for 38 these days. I carried Winchester Ranger T in it until Critical Defense came out. There are some even newer bullet designs, but I can't see them being that much better than the CD.

I added $14 worth of Wolff springs and the trigger pull is outstanding. Nothing like my 1911 or target guns, but considerably better than the 14+ lb pull it had when I got it.

If I were to do it again, I would look for the shrouded hammer and not the completely concealed hammer. You still get the benefits you said above, but it also has a better trigger out of the box since it is a SA/DA.

fishdude wrote:

Bingo. Combine all of that with very good loadings for 38 these days. I carried Winchester Ranger T in it until Critical Defense came out. There are some even newer bullet designs, but I can't see them being that much better than the CD.

I added $14 worth of Wolff springs and the trigger pull is outstanding. Nothing like my 1911 or target guns, but considerably better than the 14+ lb pull it had when I got it.

If I were to do it again, I would look for the shrouded hammer and not the completely concealed hammer. You still get the benefits you said above, but it also has a better trigger out of the box since it is a SA/DA.

The shrouded hammer is a neat idea, but I don't think I would use it terribly much. Like I said, the whole mission of a SD gun is to be an "oh crap" implement with an extremely simple battery of use.

When the adrenaline spikes and your heart rate goes to 200 bpm, your fine motor coordination (as well as your peripheral vision) is going straight down the crapper anyway. Your chances of accurately shooting at greater than spitting distance are most likely going straight down with it. In those circumstances, having a slightly heavier trigger pull with some travel can actually work to prevent an ND (one of the many reasons numerous LE departments went with the LEM or DAK triggers from HK and Sig).

The way I see it, a good civilian SD gun should be slightly longer ranged than a good punch and just as reliable.

Picked up an XDm 9mm back in January, but still haven't been able to find time to go to the range. I finally found some decent ammo online - at 40 cents/round

I agree completely with Paleo. Unfortunately I have become a total trigger snob. I am not looking for a 3.5lb trigger on a carry gun, just something that doesn't feel like nails on a chalkboard when I pull it.

Brain, I am guessing that you are an Aggie? Are you still in TX? I am just south of Houston and travel up NE of Aggieland to shoot with friends. I have seen 9mm in the $12-15/box range lately. It is out there. I am lucky to have bought 1500, 124gr FMJ last summer.

fishdude wrote:

I agree completely with Paleo.

Careful. You might find yourself sigged.

fishdude wrote:

Brain, I am guessing that you are an Aggie? Are you still in TX? I am just south of Houston and travel up NE of Aggieland to shoot with friends. I have seen 9mm in the $12-15/box range lately. It is out there.

Yessir, I'm an Aggie, and live in the Austin area now. I haven't seen 9mm in stock anywhere since December. I check Academy, Dick's, Cabela's and even Walmart (ugh) when I can, but no luck.

Hm, Paleo's sig contains almost twice as much hubris as my own! We can't allow a sig gap!

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Hm, Paleo's sig contains almost twice as much hubris as my own! We can't allow a sig gap!

I think we both need some annoying toady behind us both whispering "Respice post te! Hominem te esse memento! Memento mori!".

SIG GAP

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/v3tfC8c.jpg)

I am sure this will not be the only thing I say that someone puts in a sig. Hopefully the other things are not totally foot in mouth.

Brain, I saw ammo at the last gun show here in Houston. Pistol stuff is generally still holding old prices. It is AR, AK and 22 ammo that has hit the fan. I am glad my shooting buds ordered 35lbs of powder and 40k primers in December. We are pretty set for loading for a while.

The fact that .22lr is running out is mind boggling to me.

Me too. CCI says they are producing 1.2 million rounds of 22lr a day. Depending on who you believe and listen to, they say it will take a year to fulfill all orders and catch up the inventory glut.