Come fellow firearm owners, we must chat.

Paleocon wrote:
Yeah. The 1911 is notorious for that issue. That's why so many folks put those rubber bumpers on the base plates.

Yeah the Range Safety Officer/guy that shoots real IDPA fairly often mentioned that. I got flustered the first couple of times and he kept reassuring me like, it's alright, just keep going. And then he told me he sees the same thing pretty regularly, particularly on guns like mine with the beveled magwell extension. He said with the extension on there if you pop the mag in with the flat of your palm as people tend to do your hand hits as much of the magwell as it does the bottom of the mag. He said you either have to just put a lot more force into it or re-learn your reload so you use that protrusion at the base of your thumb/palm to put more direct pressure on the mag itself and less on the magwell.

I was just giving it an extra smack the last couple stages and it went away, but of course that extra slap is time I could have spent in movement or shooting.

I did slightly worse than I hoped, but not any better than I expected really. And it was a pretty great learning experience.

Also, single stack 45's also tend to be a lot harder to hot reload than double stacks. I imagine this probably has to do with the fact that there is less leverage against the mag spring and hot reloading would be like the equivalent of feeding an extra half round past the magazine's capacity.

I suspect that you would find the reloading a lot easier should you remove a round.

You have a Remington R1 right?

Tracking...

Edwin wrote:
You have a Remington R1 right?

Springfield TRP.

Okay. I was at one of my favorite gun shops over the weekend and the proprietor had an FN tactical bolty in .308 with a Horus Hawk 3-12x scope and Harris bipod for just about $1200. It is more than I want to spend, but it is pretty much the set up I want. I am already used to the Winchester 70 control system and actually prefer the reliability of the W70 extractor (large Mauser claw) over the Remy 700.

The Horus optics are very nice and clean and will sight pretty reliably out to 800. Anything beyond that is going to beyond my ability anyway. The rings are solid as is the base. The rifle is used, but the barrel is clean and the bolt face is immaculate. I would be really surprised if the previous owner put more than 300 rounds down the barrel.

$1200 is going to be tough for me to come up with, but there are a couple toys I have in the safe I think I can put toward trade. One is the last of the American made Model 70 Featherlights in .30-06. I have Nikon Monarch optics mounted on it and I am seeing comparable setups going for right around $1000 on the used market. I figure he will want points on that though, so I will probably not get more than $600 for it.

The other toy is a muzzle loading Renegade with a beautiful curly birch stock. I got it from a friend for helping him move out of his house and being the calm, collected witness that prevented his ex-wife from going ape. He actually transferred all his guns to my possession during the divorce proceedings so she couldn't claim she was threatened by him. I transferred them back once he was out of the woods. In appreciation he gave me a gun I never shoot. I figure I can get about $300 for that.

That would leave me with chump change to come up with. It would be a little painful to let go of the American made Winny, but I figure I will get a hell of a lot more use out of a range gun than a hunting rifle since I live in the State of Maryland where rifle hunting season is about 3 days long and always falls in an inconvenient time for me. Plus, I don't think I trust folks out there with rifles enough to be out there when I'm out there myself. Too little vis and too much stupidity. And I have no plans to go out West where a rifle like that would make a lot of sense.

What do you folks think?

I personally am not familiar with the FN rifle you're considering but I say get what you want and let go of what you don't use or need. That .30-06 Winchester 70 featherlight might be great for carrying in the backcountry, but it probably isn't as comfortable to fire repeatedly at the range. As for the muzzleloader? I wouldn't keep a weapon I know I'd never use. The FN, however, sounds like it's pretty darn close to what you want anyway, and you can pick it up (with your trades) for a few hundred bucks extra. If nothing else, it'll be fun to use now while you decide if you'd rather put together a custom Rem 700 package in the future.

I did some research on it and it turns out to be a FN TSR XP .308. Basically, it is the old Winchester 70 Stealth with a Hogue Overmold stock instead of the H&S precision. It is still a free floated aluminum bedded barrel and still the rock solid Winchester/Mauser action I know and love, but about 3/4 lb lighter than the Stealth due to the lighter Hogue stock.

Most of the reviews of it emphasize how well it would work as a scout rifle (20" barrel, lighter stock, and detachable 5 round box mag). One even commented that it would be a hell of a deer rifle despite the heavy barrel. It looks like it stacks up very well against a loaded 700. The old 70 Stealth used to be the tactical rifle of choice for police departments before the 700 and, in many ways, is still superior (though the differences are small enough that they should be classified as "religious").

Most folks opted for the 700 over the 70 because of two things: 1) the three position Mauser safety on the 70 is disconcerting to many shooters who don't like their safeties to be bolt mounted (though they are mechanically superior) and 2) the 700 was so widely adopted that it crowded all other competitors out of the ecosystem.

Of the two, the second is really more significant, even personally significant. My master armorer has worked on literally thousands of 700's, but is not terribly familiar with the 70. He can adjust a trigger or do a trigger job and probably glass bed the action, but he won't be able to do much else.

I think most folks just opt for tactical bolt handles since it provides a more positive grip and clears the scope pretty easily anyway.

IMAGE(http://www.bryantcustom.com/images/MontanaBryantKnob.jpg)

Spent some time today looking at 70 stealths. Purdy.

boogle wrote:
Spent some time today looking at 70 stealths. Purdy.

They truly are. And although the 700 is a far more popular firearm, I am starting to prefer the 70 for a number of very important reasons... and not just because I am a fcking nonconformist.

I haven't been in the market for a new bolt action center fire rifle in many years so maybe things have changed. Anyway, I wanted to see what you all think.

The 60° rotation bolt action has been around for years, but this feature has been confined to the premium rifle market. This seems very odd to me because most truly useful "premium" features eventually trickle down to boost sales of more popular models. However, this pretty much hasn't happened. As far as I can tell, the 90° rotation bolt is the most common bolt on the market. Why? Is it an accuracy issue? Durability issue? It seems to me that the short rotation bolt would be ideal for the tactical market especially.

I can see this being a non-issue for San Diego based benchrest shooters. However, anyone who's been in the field or at the range on a clear but cold day knows the absolute beating of trying to manipulate a 90° bolt that clears the scope by maybe 2mm while wearing winter gloves. The idea of a quick follow up shot? Yeah, it ain't gonna happen. So, what do you all think?

Paleocon wrote:
I think most folks just opt for tactical bolt handles since it provides a more positive grip and clears the scope pretty easily anyway.

IMAGE(http://www.bryantcustom.com/images/MontanaBryantKnob.jpg)

Thanks for the suggestion, Paleocon. If I had a mod-worthy bolt action rifle this would be a great option. I've had some very good experiences with Ruger products, but my old .270 Win M77 has never inspired me to want to drop any additional money into it's improvement. It's spent the last decade in it's case, and I'm a guy who tries to make a point of going to the range throughout the year to maintain proficiency with my modest collection.

I'd like to be competent on a great bolt action rifle so maybe this is just me testing myself to see if coming up with the extra cash for a Sako 85 or Browning abolt would be worth the effort. Reason, however, keeps dragging me back to the solid choice of a Remmy 700 with a little extra gunsmithing and modification. Decisions, decisions.

The Remy 700 has pretty much crowded out the field for solid benchrest or "sniper" rifles with only the Savage providing any real insurgent competition. The main appeal of the Savage was that it provided a superior barrel and trigger for a much lower price than the Remy. The first two reasons are still true, but the third no longer is.

I was over at Bass Pro last night and was able to find a 700 SPS Varmint for about $550. A comparable Savage 11 Varmint was $629. One could make the argument that they aren't really comparable due to Savage's better barrel and trigger, but it isn't much of a difference and for a beginning shooter, the more important factor would be what options you have as you grow into the rifle. Neither of them have particularly good stocks. The Remy has a horrible one.

I read an article a while back in which the author took an SPS Varmint right out of the box and was shooting just about MOA on benchrest. After doing nothing more than changing the stock to a McMillan (no bedding. Just unbolting and bolting.), he got the very same rifle to shoot .34. Keep in mind that he's using slow powder hand loads that are specifically made for that 26" barrel so neither of us will ever approach that accuracy with stock ammo, but .66 is a significant improvement for just changing out the stock.

Any benchrest bolty folks out there have an opinion on the whole Pillar vs. Block bedding debate? 70 folks keep telling me that that is the big reason the 70 is superior to the 700.

The IDPA down zero blog has some neat stats about the stuff people use to compete with. There are more at the links for your reading.

http://www.idpa.com/blog/post/2012/1...

IMAGE(http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2012%2f10%2fCup12-Holsters.png)
IMAGE(http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2012%2f10%2fCup12-CCW-Holsters.png)

http://www.idpa.com/blog/post/2012/1...

IMAGE(http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2012%2f10%2fCup12-Ammo.png)
IMAGE(http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2012%2f10%2fCup12-Ammo-Brands.png)

New roommate/landlord has family land about an hour from town.
Time to find me a nice stealth 70.

boogle wrote:
New roommate/landlord has family land about an hour from town.
Time to find me a nice stealth 70.

You know, I used to say that the Winchester company went down the crapper when FN took them over, but I have to admit that the FN TSR XP .308 is a hell of a rifle. It is every bit as nice as the Stealth at about half the weight. It still shoots .35 MOA out of the box despite it so it makes an outstanding scout rifle.

I respect the stats on such a great tactical rifle. I gotta say though, assuming we're talking about .308 or larger caliber, my shoulder hurts just thinking about firing the thing.

Anyone have experince with http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ_75_SP01_Shadow/?
I'm thinking of getting one for doing some IPSC style shooting. Looks like I can get one for 880 is cheapest Ive found it.

ringsnort wrote:
I respect the stats on such a great tactical rifle. I gotta say though, assuming we're talking about .308 or larger caliber, my shoulder hurts just thinking about firing the thing.

I shoot an -06 Featherlight, so I am sure it would still be a significant improvement in the recoil area. I guess all things are relative.

Slytin wrote:
Anyone have experince with http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ_75_SP01_Shadow/?
I'm thinking of getting one for doing some IPSC style shooting. Looks like I can get one for 880 is cheapest Ive found it.

I have an SP01 Tactical that I love, I just need to get a lighter recoil spring for it. Never shot the shadow but by all accounts it's really nice.

Paleocon wrote:
ringsnort wrote:
I respect the stats on such a great tactical rifle. I gotta say though, assuming we're talking about .308 or larger caliber, my shoulder hurts just thinking about firing the thing.

I shoot an -06 Featherlight, so I am sure it would still be a significant improvement in the recoil area. I guess all things are relative.

True enough. Still, I can't believe someone didn't call me out and say, "quit yer whinin' and man up!"

Slytin wrote:
Anyone have experince with http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ_75_SP01_Shadow/?
I'm thinking of getting one for doing some IPSC style shooting. Looks like I can get one for 880 is cheapest Ive found it.

Are you planning on competing seriously, or just going out and having fun? If you're really interested in getting into IPSC, I'd say just go ahead and get a Glock 34 (for Production) or a Glock 35 (for Limited).

Slytin wrote:
Anyone have experince with http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ_75_SP01_Shadow/?
I'm thinking of getting one for doing some IPSC style shooting. Looks like I can get one for 880 is cheapest Ive found it.

CZ has a model that is made for IPSC called the Tactical Sport. You could just get that one.

I snooze. I lose.

It looks like the FN sold over the weekend before I had a chance to get back to him with my w70. This has me thinking longer term regarding what I really want in a long range rifle.

Seeing as I have a Remington master armorer among my friends who has a full machine and fabrication shop at his disposal, I figure going Remington is probably not a bad way to go. I can get an SPS Varmint in .308 for about $500 and I already have decent optics to start with (Nikon Monarch) and can graduate into something more substantial when necessary.

Next step would be to replace the horrible tupperware stock that comes standard on the SPS Varmint with something decent. As I mentioned, a lot of the stuff I am reading indicates that you can just about double the accuracy from 1 MOA to .5 just by going with a straight bolt in H&S Precision stock with no bedding or replacement of bottom metal. And the R700 is notorious for movement in the action unless you do replace the bottom metal (hence one of the reasons I was considering the W70).

I looked at a couple decent pillar bedded stocks, but the full aluminum block seems the more accurate way to go. When you figure in all the crap you'll need to make it a true tackdriver, it almost makes sense just to save your pennies and go big with the Accuracy International stock since it also resolves the bottom metal issue by replacing the trapdoor with an aluminum V-block and 5-round box mag. They ain't cheap, but it solves all of the problems.

Jeez. Looks like this will be a 4 year project.

Paleocon wrote:

I looked at a couple decent pillar bedded stocks, but the full aluminum block seems the more accurate way to go. When you figure in all the crap you'll need to make it a true tackdriver, it almost makes sense just to save your pennies and go big with the Accuracy International stock since it also resolves the bottom metal issue by replacing the trapdoor with an aluminum V-block and 5-round box mag. They ain't cheap, but it solves all of the problems.

Jeez. Looks like this will be a 4 year project.

Just be sure to go shoot an AICS if at all possible. Some folks love them, some just can't get along with them. I have owned a custom rifle built on a 700/AICS and an AI AW. I loved the AI and hated the 700/AICS. Depends on how YOU'RE built, how much in and out of position shooting you do, and a lot of personal preference.

If you go AICS, look seriously at the folding version - if you run the cheekpiece up at all you will have to lower or remove it every time you want to punch the bore. What's another $200 among friends??

Have fun.

bennard wrote:
Slytin wrote:
Anyone have experince with http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ_75_SP01_Shadow/?
I'm thinking of getting one for doing some IPSC style shooting. Looks like I can get one for 880 is cheapest Ive found it.

Are you planning on competing seriously, or just going out and having fun? If you're really interested in getting into IPSC, I'd say just go ahead and get a Glock 34 (for Production) or a Glock 35 (for Limited).

I'm interested in fun with possibility to competing. I'm fan of CZ quality and I dug up this list of IPSC shooters guns.
1 Vogel, Robert USA Glock 17
2 Stoeger, Ben USA Beretta 92FS
3 Mink, Matthew USA CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
4 De Cobos, Eduardo ESP Sig Sauer P226 X-Five Allround
5 Lejano, Jeufro Emil PHI CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
6 Manni, Matti FIN Tanfoglio Stock II
7 VYSNY, MARIAN SVK CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
8 Momcilovic, Ljubisa SER CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
9 PICHUGIN, ALEXEY RUS CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
10 APLETAL, MIROSLAV CZE CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
11 Gyllenberg, Rasmus SWE Y CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
12 Vinduska, Vaclav CZE Grand Power K100
13 Moreira, Galo ECU CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
14 HRNCIARIK, ANDREJ J SVK CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
15 Brocanelli, Paolo ITA Tanfoglio Stock II
16 Drolet, Jean Philippe CAN Y CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow
17 Nagy, Ernest SVK Grand Power K100
18 Zuccolo, Giovanni ITA Tanfoglio Stock II
19 Franjo, Nadj CRO HS2000
20 Ibanez, Gorka Walther P99

Yeah, the Shadow is as popular as it is for a reason. It's just easy to shoot well, as is are most SP01 models in general. I don't think it has nearly the learning curve to it that a Glock may if you don't already shoot a Glock often.

NakedHavoc wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I looked at a couple decent pillar bedded stocks, but the full aluminum block seems the more accurate way to go. When you figure in all the crap you'll need to make it a true tackdriver, it almost makes sense just to save your pennies and go big with the Accuracy International stock since it also resolves the bottom metal issue by replacing the trapdoor with an aluminum V-block and 5-round box mag. They ain't cheap, but it solves all of the problems.

Jeez. Looks like this will be a 4 year project.

Just be sure to go shoot an AICS if at all possible. Some folks love them, some just can't get along with them. I have owned a custom rifle built on a 700/AICS and an AI AW. I loved the AI and hated the 700/AICS. Depends on how YOU'RE built, how much in and out of position shooting you do, and a lot of personal preference.

If you go AICS, look seriously at the folding version - if you run the cheekpiece up at all you will have to lower or remove it every time you want to punch the bore. What's another $200 among friends??

Have fun.

Thanks for the advice. I was definitely leaning in the AICS direction, but have heard quite a few folks say roughly the same thing. My master armorer friend has one on his 300wm (700 LA) and says he absolutely loves it. That aluminum v-block is about as rock solid as you can get on the Remy platform.

Funny thing is, he actually suggested that I just keep my W70 Featherweight in .30-06 because it is plenty versatile and will probably outshoot me anyway. I mentioned that I wanted a more pleasant range gun and having a .30-06 in a tapered bore rifle with an ultralight walnut stock is like getting hit in the shoulder with a drywall hammer and he admonished me to act like I don't need to sit down to take a pee.