The Joys Of Programming

And I think the addition of lambdas and the Stream API, e.g., map, filter, reduce, etc., since Java 8 makes it much more palatable to those coming from languages with a more function/data oriented perspective.

I know my programming life got way better when Java 8 dropped.

Back in my day... CS classes were taught in PASCAL. C was the new fun thing, but was only a 1 hour elective along with ADA. I took both since I was doing intern work for Computer Science Corp and that division was doing government contracts for the Aegis Cruiser/Destroyer and the AN/BSY-2 Sub programs. They were big into ADA and PASCAL (on VAX). Luckily, unlike my step-father, I was in school post-punch-card. Dodged a bullet there, and rivers of tears, since I was a bit clumsy back in the day and I know I would have dropped a stack at some point.

I felt so badly for the kids who would sit in the computer labs using the line editor (WYLBUR maybe?) typing in their PASCAL homework into the mainframes. They would make a change to one line, run the program, wait by the printer for the printout to find out they had a syntax error. Then back to the terminal, do another edit, and back to the printer. The nights before the assignments were due, there would be lines at the printers - it was horrible for them. And the damned teachers didn't teach how to output the runs to the screen with minor JCL changes.

I had a PC XT clone and modem and did all my work in Turbo PASCAL or MASM (I think that is what it was called) for Assembly and uploaded it when I was done. No pain, no complain.

I'm in the different boat right now - I have been coding in C# for the last 17 years and just took a job at Cisco coding Java in January. I didn't know Java, but it was a breeze to pick up.

And AMEN for stream/map in Java. Coming from C#, that is a big help.

-BEP

JCL... damn. I did that for an internship just 15 years ago. Company was still using a mainframe to run nightly stuff in the 00s, and I got stuck on that. Had to do training with another person there to learn JCL just to do one thing. Hah.

I think I was in the last year, or close to it, that AP Computer Science was taught in Pascal.

bepnewt wrote:

Back in my day... CS classes were taught in PASCAL. C was the new fun thing, but was only a 1 hour elective along with ADA.


Back in my day, we used Pascal for the first-semester class in data structures. The following semester was Lisp (to weed people out of CS I guess). The rest of my time at school was mostly C, with some Lisp and assembly thrown in.

I heard some of the grad students talking about C++ (2.0 came out while I was in school), but I never saw that until after I graduated.

My first job out of college was working in Ada (not ADA; the Ada language was named after a person). I was very fond of working with Ada as you may have guessed and thought it was terrific for the type of work I've done over the years. In my first job I was using it on a massive submarine combat system...

bepnewt wrote:

I took both since I was doing intern work for Computer Science Corp and that division was doing government contracts for the Aegis Cruiser/Destroyer and the AN/BSY-2 Sub programs.

Yes, BSY-2, that's the one! Since you were at CSC, I trust you were down in/near Moorestown? I worked there on Aegis as a summer intern (at RCA/GE, not CSC), but worked on BSY-2 in upstate NY.

I used to communicate with a couple of the folks CSC, but don't remember any Newts (or BEPs).

bepnewt wrote:

They were big into ADA and PASCAL (on VAX). Luckily, unlike my step-father, I was in school post-punch-card. Dodged a bullet there, and rivers of tears, since I was a bit clumsy back in the day and I know I would have dropped a stack at some point.

I was very much into emacs back in college and in my early career, and was quite fortunate to have gone to school shortly after all the punch card readers disappeared. Strangely, our first-semester course actually used Turbo Pascal, so we used our brand-new PC lab instead of the microcomputers.

For the last decade or so I've been using C++ (and some C and assembly) for embedded Flight SW. I've dabbled with C#, but thankfully that's been only as a hobby and not as a job.

I was an engineering student, so had no formal CS training. Self taught myself a bunch during HS and college (Basic, Pascal, Z80, 6502) but only used Fortran for real - spent time in the Engineering Computer Department @ my sponsoring company during my degree.

Than graduated and my first job was an Oracle project and that was all she wrote. 20 years of that sh*t

In middle school I taught myself Hypertalk/Hypercard. In high school I took a Pascal course and then a C course (on a VAX/VMS), and outside of school I taught myself Perl, C++, and shell scripting (and Unix and network administration).

In college my CS AP score placed me out of the first two CS courses which were basically "Intro to Java" and "Let's do more stuff with Java", which was actually a bit of a problem for me, as I didn't know Java, and most of the upper-tier CS courses were, you guessed it, in Java; so I had to quickly learn Java on my own. I also took some one-off courses in Assembly (a simulated CPU with its own instruction set), and Scheme.

In my professional career, I've used: VB ASP, Javascript, Java, Perl, C++, SQL, KDB/q, and a bit of Python.

Moggy wrote:

Than graduated and my first job was an Oracle project and that was all she wrote. 20 years of that sh*t

My condolences!

Hrdina wrote:
bepnewt wrote:

I took both since I was doing intern work for Computer Science Corp and that division was doing government contracts for the Aegis Cruiser/Destroyer and the AN/BSY-2 Sub programs.

Yes, BSY-2, that's the one! Since you were at CSC, I trust you were down in/near Moorestown? I worked there on Aegis as a summer intern (at RCA/GE, not CSC), but worked on BSY-2 in upstate NY.

I used to communicate with a couple of the folks CSC, but don't remember any Newts (or BEPs).

Yup, that's where I was, although I think my building was in Mt. Laurel back then. Two of my friends were also interning there and we'd head to the Moorestown Mall to get a slice from Sbarro's then play games in the arcade at lunch. Those guys didn't hire on at CSC, though. These were the summers of '88, '89, and '90. I got the gig because of my good friend whose father was a VP (I think). His name was Peter Cahn (the father). Michael Cahn was my friend. Chris Wisniewski was my other bud that interned. Those 2 guys were in different buildings than I was - they weren't programmers.

I interned with CSC for 3 summers but didn't hire on. A guy I interned with my last year there (when I was writing PASCAL to disseminate test missile data from the U.S.S. Rancocas) was Doug Wasko. I think he hired on and even married a gal that we worked with there. Gina, maybe? Lisa? Been a long time.

We got to tour the U.S.S. Rancocas once while interning at CSC, which was cool. It was sad seeing the Golf Ball go, but the Destroyer was much cooler.

I had moved to Oklahoma with my mother, but my father still lived in Delran at the time and I was there each summer during those years. I've also lived in Edgewater Park, Burlington, Delanco, and Roebling at various point in my early life.

-BEP

Hrdina wrote:
bepnewt wrote:

Back in my day... CS classes were taught in PASCAL. C was the new fun thing, but was only a 1 hour elective along with ADA.


Back in my day, we used Pascal for the first-semester class in data structures. The following semester was Lisp (to weed people out of CS I guess). The rest of my time at school was mostly C, with some Lisp and assembly thrown in.

I heard some of the grad students talking about C++ (2.0 came out while I was in school), but I never saw that until after I graduated.

My first job out of college was working in Ada (not ADA; the Ada language was named after a person). I was very fond of working with Ada as you may have guessed and thought it was terrific for the type of work I've done over the years. In my first job I was using it on a massive submarine combat system...

bepnewt wrote:

I took both since I was doing intern work for Computer Science Corp and that division was doing government contracts for the Aegis Cruiser/Destroyer and the AN/BSY-2 Sub programs.

Yes, BSY-2, that's the one! Since you were at CSC, I trust you were down in/near Moorestown? I worked there on Aegis as a summer intern (at RCA/GE, not CSC), but worked on BSY-2 in upstate NY.

I used to communicate with a couple of the folks CSC, but don't remember any Newts (or BEPs).

bepnewt wrote:

They were big into ADA and PASCAL (on VAX). Luckily, unlike my step-father, I was in school post-punch-card. Dodged a bullet there, and rivers of tears, since I was a bit clumsy back in the day and I know I would have dropped a stack at some point.

I was very much into emacs back in college and in my early career, and was quite fortunate to have gone to school shortly after all the punch card readers disappeared. Strangely, our first-semester course actually used Turbo Pascal, so we used our brand-new PC lab instead of the microcomputers.

For the last decade or so I've been using C++ (and some C and assembly) for embedded Flight SW. I've dabbled with C#, but thankfully that's been only as a hobby and not as a job.

I worked for CSC in Moorestown for 14 years...on Aegis and DD(x)/DDG-1000.

I also worked with Doug Wasko, Bep.. His wife is Cindy. Small world.

PWAlessi wrote:

I also worked with Doug Wasko, Bep.. His wife is Cindy. Small world.

Quick aside to release an embarrassing burden I've been shouldering for almost 20 years. I hadn't talked to Doug since 1990 and got the itch to look him up maybe around 2003 or so. I sleuthed the net and found an email address for him and sent him a random email. It turned out to be him and he replied. There may have been one more back-and-forth where I learned about Cindy, etc. and then I heard nothing from him. After a while, I just assumed he didn't have any interest in keeping up the dialog.

Years later, maybe 2010, I thought about him again. I don't remember why, maybe because I was playing frisbee golf and I remembered him saying something about playing Ultimate, and I logged back into the old Yahoo email account I was using in the early 2000s to re-read our conversation. Turned out that I had never sent the reply to him that I thought I had - I had saved it to finish later. So it was ME that ended the conversation and he probably thought I was the one that didn't want to converse anymore. I saw that he was on Facebook, but couldn't get myself to own up to the stupidity.

Doug was a great guy, lots of fun. I hung out with him and his friends (Denby, Karen G., and others I can't remember) quite a bit. He loved reciting (or trying to recite) the digits of pi when we would be drinking.

"3.14159265359.. sh*t. 3.1415926535899.. sh*t", etc.

Ok, more on-topic...

I hate Gerrit Code Review.

-BEP

Mixolyde wrote:
Moggy wrote:

Than graduated and my first job was an Oracle project and that was all she wrote. 20 years of that sh*t

My condolences!

To pile the sh*t on top of the sh*t, I was focused on Oracle Financials.

Worked out OK in the end (thanks, GOOG!)

bepnewt wrote:

Yup, that's where I was, although I think my building was in Mt. Laurel back then. Two of my friends were also interning there and we'd head to the Moorestown Mall to get a slice from Sbarro's then play games in the arcade at lunch. Those guys didn't hire on at CSC, though. These were the summers of '88, '89, and '90. I got the gig because of my good friend whose father was a VP (I think). His name was Peter Cahn (the father). Michael Cahn was my friend. Chris Wisniewski was my other bud that interned. Those 2 guys were in different buildings than I was - they weren't programmers.

Ah, cool, I was an intern on Aegis in 1989, and a real employee on BSY-2 from 1990-1992. I don't recognize any of those names. The CSC people I remember from BSY-2 were Doug Tait (who eventually moved up to Syracuse) and Dave Wetzel (IIRC).

The work I did on Aegis was totally unrelated to everything I've done since then. It involved creating some gate-level hardware simulations for the ASICs they were building at the time.

bepnewt wrote:

We got to tour the U.S.S. Rancocas once while interning at CSC, which was cool. It was sad seeing the Golf Ball go, but the Destroyer was much cooler.

You cannot bring up the U.S.S. Rancocas twice without providing some context for people.

Anyone who has driven between Exit 4 and Exit 5 on the NJ Turnpike (or the parallel section of I-295) has probably seen this and wondered WTF.

IMAGE(https://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/nj/NJRANship1_schneider_cseds_7.jpg)

The golfball was cool enough that I remember it, even though it disappeared when I was pretty young.

bepnewt wrote:

I had moved to Oklahoma with my mother, but my father still lived in Delran at the time and I was there each summer during those years. I've also lived in Edgewater Park, Burlington, Delanco, and Roebling at various point in my early life.

I actually grew up in Riverton and went to HS in Palmyra. A friend and I used to ride our bicycles up to the Moorestown Mall when we were probably a bit too young to be doing that. I also lived in Mount Laurel for a short while. My aunt currently lives in Delanco and my mom is now in Cinnaminson.

The Codingame Spring Challenge 2022 kicks off in about a day, and I am looking forward to it. I probably won't have a lot of time to work on it, but hopefully I can take pieces from other solutions and do something useful with them. I finally went back and got some of my older Dart bots to work again under the new parser and put them in my codingame repo on GH, if anyone wants to see them. Some of them need a lot of work, though.

Anyone remember the Youtuber who figured out that Super Mario 64 was compiled & shipped without optimization flags enabled, and with debug flags enabled - and when he recompiled it, it ran better?

He took it even further and basically hand-optimized the entire source code:

That is amazing.

Anyone else here also do devops work and interested in those sorts of topics or would you rather keep that out of this thread?

I’m primarily a software developer but I work on IaC and k8s a lot these days as well.

Please briefly describe how the f**k to use Kubernetes.

I’m devop-curious. At work I did the port of our build system to CMake and figuring out how to control our CI/build farm is the next step on my hunt for the white whale of fast change iteration cycles. Though I think our actual devops people and my line manager would prefer I did the work assigned to me. ^_^

I've ended up doing some devops stuff since there's nobody else around to do it. Nothing too complicated though -- gitlab-ci pipelines, server deployment via ansible, managing container instances, etc. It's fine. Not 'I want to switch careers' fine, but then my occasional desire to do something else always includes the desire to not be associated with the tech industry at all.

*Legion* wrote:

Please briefly describe how the f**k to use Kubernetes.

Nigel Poulton’s k8s videos on Pluralsight are a good introduction. There’s no replacement for just digging in and doing things tho. I’ve been working on k8s at scale for years and there’s no end to the things I don’t know yet.

billt721 wrote:

I've ended up doing some devops stuff since there's nobody else around to do it. Nothing too complicated though -- gitlab-ci pipelines, server deployment via ansible, managing container instances, etc. It's fine. Not 'I want to switch careers' fine, but then my occasional desire to do something else always includes the desire to not be associated with the tech industry at all.

Yeah I'm in much the same position. I'm primarily a software developer (C++/C#/Python), but I've done some dev-ops work, dabbing in much the same things you mention. It makes an interesting change of pace but I have no desire to change career tracks.

pandasuit wrote:

Anyone else here also do devops work and interested in those sorts of topics or would you rather keep that out of this thread?

I’m primarily a software developer but I work on IaC and k8s a lot these days as well.

I'm fine with it. I mostly just lurk in this thread, but devops is a lot of what I do.

I think the question these days is who *doesn't* do at least some devops. So bring on the chatter.

tboon wrote:

I think the question these days is who *doesn't* do at least some devops. So bring on the chatter.

(raises hand)

I mean I have to set up my own build servers in azure when I make a branch. But that's usually just cloning the maintenance server. So yeah not that much devops.

I think just about all the other devs at work run/test apps through Tomcat that they control through intellij. I instead set up a Docker stack with our DB, Redis, nginx, and whatever tomcat instances I need for what I'm testing. It just seems a lot cleaner to me, and it's easy to get the apps talking to each other if I need to.

qaraq wrote:

I think just about all the other devs at work run/test apps through Tomcat that they control through intellij. I instead set up a Docker stack with our DB, Redis, nginx, and whatever tomcat instances I need for what I'm testing. It just seems a lot cleaner to me, and it's easy to get the apps talking to each other if I need to.

Have you tried devcontainers yet? VSCode has good support. Docker Desktop has some support for creating them apparently but I haven’t tried it. Also haven’t adopted them for all my Python work yet. Worked out great for frontend and backend TypeScript work tho.

qaraq wrote:

I think just about all the other devs at work run/test apps through Tomcat that they control through intellij. I instead set up a Docker stack with our DB, Redis, nginx, and whatever tomcat instances I need for what I'm testing. It just seems a lot cleaner to me, and it's easy to get the apps talking to each other if I need to.

Its super easy to do this with Docker compose. I'll do this with a Kubernetes cluster too. Docker desktop has k8s built in.

I haven't looked at devcontainers because what I have is working but I probably should just for my own edification, but right now I'm tied to the intellij environment. I've used vscode a couple of times for Go because the support in intellij has been a bit flaky, but that's not for work.

I do use docker-compose - all my work stuff just runs in its own stack with its own network. Makes things a lot easier to name servers and services. I have to be careful though because our full deployment would explode my poor laptop; I only need one or two application servers running at a time.

I don't have local k8s going though I should give it a try. I did turn it on once but it just ran a bunch more containers I didn't need right away, and my memory is very tight; that's the downside I've found doing local dev in docker. We do use k8s for test environments both for QA's manual and automated testing and devs' test environments.

I've been trying to sell management on being a little more 'cloud-native' but it's not easy; our current setup is pretty firmly established and working, and in the emergency notification/management space they like very tight control of the servers.