The Joys Of Programming

DSGamer wrote:

There is an in-between, though, right? I get that “your cellphone should boot in 1 second” is hyperbolic. But I regularly have Chrome and Electron-based apps using up 12+ GB of memory.

I think the point of the rant (and it’s definitely a rant) is that we definitely take advantage of the fact that compute time is cheaper than man time.

The reality is that we get software built by committee for the lowest possible expense. You get what you pay for, and we pay for bad management to release bad products that everyone barely tolerates so executives can clear 7-figure salaries and bonuses.

#LateStageCapitalism

DSGamer wrote:

There is an in-between, though, right? I get that “your cellphone should boot in 1 second” is hyperbolic. But I regularly have Chrome and Electron-based apps using up 12+ GB of memory.

I think the point of the rant (and it’s definitely a rant) is that we definitely take advantage of the fact that compute time is cheaper than man time.

For how many of those memory hogging apps are their alternatives that are not memory hogs? My impression is that there aren't many electron apps for which there isn't a more performant alternative, where the trade off is usually more work required by the user). But I'm not sure how true that is, and maybe I'm just lucky that alternatives usually exist for the things I want to do.

The core of the rant being against valuing human time over computer time seems accurate. But I disagree with that as well, as valuing human time over computer time seems like a positive to me.

Yeah, the tradeoffs are what bears examining. Nobody chooses Electron because of its resource usage, they choose it despite that, so whether or not they made a good choice comes down to what they got in exchange, right? And in the same vein it's meaningless to just say "windows updates should be faster". But if the author knew why they take so long, or could say something about what would need to change for them to be faster, that would be interesting to read.

(As an aside on Electron, I'm always a little leery when someone complains about an app using too much memory. I mean, if it can't run without using 10GB of ram that's one thing, but if the system has resources to spare then it's not necessarily bad for apps to use them.)

fenomas wrote:

(As an aside on Electron, I'm always a little leery when someone complains about an app using too much memory. I mean, if it can't run without using 10GB of ram that's one thing, but if the system has resources to spare then it's not necessarily bad for apps to use them.)

Not to mention that the memory use of such apps is almost always told in gross overstatement.

Slack has been running on my work MBP all day. I just opened Activity Monitor to check, it's using about 100MB.

Discord is another one of those Electron chat apps, running on this gaming PC I'm typing on right now. Checked Process Hacker, it's using about 200MB.

Not exactly lightweight, no, but a pretty far cry from the gigabytes these apps are supposedly always eating up.

Sometimes one of these apps may have a memory leak and work their way up to a stupid high number, but that behavior is hardly exclusive to Electron apps.

*Legion* wrote:
fenomas wrote:

(As an aside on Electron, I'm always a little leery when someone complains about an app using too much memory. I mean, if it can't run without using 10GB of ram that's one thing, but if the system has resources to spare then it's not necessarily bad for apps to use them.)

Not to mention that the memory use of such apps is almost always told in gross overstatement.

Slack has been running on my work MBP all day. I just opened Activity Monitor to check, it's using about 100MB.

Connect to more than one workspace. Or 12.

*Legion* wrote:

Slack has been running on my work MBP all day. I just opened Activity Monitor to check, it's using about 100MB.

Discord is another one of those Electron chat apps, running on this gaming PC I'm typing on right now. Checked Process Hacker, it's using about 200MB.

You mean running in the background but not open in a window, right? People talking about gigs mean when the app is open and under heavy use.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
fenomas wrote:

(As an aside on Electron, I'm always a little leery when someone complains about an app using too much memory. I mean, if it can't run without using 10GB of ram that's one thing, but if the system has resources to spare then it's not necessarily bad for apps to use them.)

Not to mention that the memory use of such apps is almost always told in gross overstatement.

Slack has been running on my work MBP all day. I just opened Activity Monitor to check, it's using about 100MB.

Connect to more than one workspace. Or 12.

My Slack has 6 and my Discord has 17.

fenomas wrote:

You mean running in the background but not open in a window, right?

No, both are running in open windows on side monitors.

On my Windows 7 machine, slack.exe lists 28 processes, with about 160 mb per process.

That's the just-opened figure, might be different if it's been running for a few hours.

Just got done interviewing. Interviews are so hard when you have medication-induced memory loss and everything you’ve ever done isn’t easy to recall. I feel so hopeless right now.

DSGamer wrote:

Just got done interviewing. Interviews are so hard when you have medication-induced memory loss and everything you’ve ever done isn’t easy to recall. I feel so hopeless right now.

I feel for you. Interviews usually suck because organizations don’t value the work it takes to make them fruitful. But you also know you’re likely your own harshest critic so maybe don’t be too hard on yourself.

I hate interviewing, which is why I just don't do it. Which is why I'll never retire (that + working for the government + marrying someone from this sh*tty island in the middle of the pacific).

I once had an interview that was going really well, and then we started talking about an app I had worked on a few years before that had a Java UI. The discussion moved to multi-threaded implementations and I somehow managed to space on the fact that of course the UI was multi-threaded. I recovered by the end of the call, but the damage was done. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't get the job. It woulda been neat (space observatory that's a parternship between a local telescope and one in Chile), but the older I get the less interested I am in doing basically any traveling for work.

Anyway, screw interviews.

muraii wrote:

I feel for you. Interviews usually suck because organizations don’t value the work it takes to make them fruitful.

This. I remain unconvinced that anyone has an interview process that really works. In general, I work with people who are probably not what you would think of when you think of government employees. Probably because this isn't just some desk job -- for a lot of people in this field, a USGS job is a dream job. But there is a guy here who has an impressive education and apparently interviewed real well ... and he's a walking manifestation of the government worker stereotype.

muraii wrote:

But you also know you’re likely your own harshest critic so maybe don’t be too hard on yourself. :)

Also this.

billt721 wrote:

I hate interviewing, which is why I just don't do it. Which is why I'll never retire (that + working for the government + marrying someone from this sh*tty island in the middle of the pacific).

I once had an interview that was going really well, and then we started talking about an app I had worked on a few years before that had a Java UI. The discussion moved to multi-threaded implementations and I somehow managed to space on the fact that of course the UI was multi-threaded. I recovered by the end of the call, but the damage was done. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't get the job. It woulda been neat (space observatory that's a parternship between a local telescope and one in Chile), but the older I get the less interested I am in doing basically any traveling for work.

Anyway, screw interviews.

muraii wrote:

I feel for you. Interviews usually suck because organizations don’t value the work it takes to make them fruitful.

This. I remain unconvinced that anyone has an interview process that really works. In general, I work with people who are probably not what you would think of when you think of government employees. Probably because this isn't just some desk job -- for a lot of people in this field, a USGS job is a dream job. But there is a guy here who has an impressive education and apparently interviewed real well ... and he's a walking manifestation of the government worker stereotype.

muraii wrote:

But you also know you’re likely your own harshest critic so maybe don’t be too hard on yourself. :)

Also this.

Thank you for doing any sort of IT-related work for the Feds. They need all the help they can get. Hope congress never takes your retirement away.

muraii wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Just got done interviewing. Interviews are so hard when you have medication-induced memory loss and everything you’ve ever done isn’t easy to recall. I feel so hopeless right now.

I feel for you. Interviews usually suck because organizations don’t value the work it takes to make them fruitful. But you also know you’re likely your own harshest critic so maybe don’t be too hard on yourself. :)

I am, but I also know that I’ve literally forgotten things that I used to know. And because I’ve gone through fairly significant medication-related health problems, I don’t know how much of that is memory loss or how much of that is that it’s been 5 years since I’ve done hardcore SQL, so of course I don’t remember SQL isolation levels (to use an example).

I only know my own brain and it feels like I’ve forgotten so much.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/ofikqH5.jpg)

If you were to have two cameras on a monitor, one ontop and one below you could extrapolate an image from the middle of the monitor. Not sure how CPU intensive that would be.