The Joys Of Programming

I think it's mostly just having to adjust to a different system, and not reading warning messages.

Literally had one guy blow away all our ASP.Net markup "because I didn't know what it does". Had another who saw ASP.Net databind tags ( <%# ... %> ) and thought they were comment tags and put his comments inside some.

I'm just floored - yes, these are issues that won't get caught by the compiler, but if these guys had tried to verify their changes locally before checking in, it would have broken on them out there - instead of in our continuous integration server.

... I know nothing about ASP but I've been handed files from a client for another system which isn't technically our responsibility so we could add some minor changes. It's not that hard to figure out vaguely what's going on if you're remotely familiar with programming languages in general.

I'm kinda surprised that anyone would think something is a comment block despite it most likely not having stuff that looks commenty in it. Even then, a quick Google search to confirm the syntax takes all of what? A couple minutes?

This still isn't a programming problem so much as people not using their brains or trying to be professional with their work.

Maybe it comes from people getting numb to seeing code commented out. I personally delete commented code, by and large. It can be retrieved from the source repository or it can be returned to functioning if it matters. But I've seen code with tons of comments wrapped around it. Like, "I'll get back to this later".

McIrishJihad wrote:
Literally had one guy blow away all our ASP.Net markup "because I didn't know what it does".

And he's still employed?

McIrishJihad wrote:
I think it's mostly just having to adjust to a different system, and not reading warning messages.

Literally had one guy blow away all our ASP.Net markup "because I didn't know what it does". Had another who saw ASP.Net databind tags ( <%# ... %> ) and thought they were comment tags and put his comments inside some.

I'm just floored - yes, these are issues that won't get caught by the compiler, but if these guys had tried to verify their changes locally before checking in, it would have broken on them out there - instead of in our continuous integration server.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/fy13DOC.gif)

If you have automated build/test scripts or can work them up quickly, Git's pre-commit hooks are lovely for mitigating some stupidity. Anything from running linters and formatters (`go fmt`, `php -l`, etc.) to a full compile-and-test process is valid, and you can use it to issue warnings to stdout or actually prevent a commit from being recorded.

It's not wise to use the automated checks as a mask for truly poor performance, but that's a separate issue from preventing obvious mistakes from entering the commit log or your CI server.

Strangeblades wrote:
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/s61d0Tt.jpg)

A Goodjer posted this.

That's what I've been trying to say about looking at the amalgamation of different playthroughs of a given game!

I should learn ASP. Someone point me in the right direction!

wordsmythe wrote:
I should learn ASP. Someone point me in the right direction!

What's the need? Are you looking to write web apps or just do embedded logic?

wordsmythe wrote:
I should learn ASP. Someone point me in the right direction!

Well, for starters, let's get some terminology straight because that could mean 3 different things.

Classic ASP: No. Just no. It is approximately as bad as PHP. Also, no one does that anymore unless they are working on Legacy systems.
ASP.NET WebForms: It's fine, and useful, and people are still working on that kind of app, even if it's not the new hotness. Plenty of custom controls to be found and lots of good information, but good luck if you need to learn about the page life cycle. At this point, I doubt many people are starting projects in it, but there are definitely existing apps with new features being added.
ASP.NET MVC: the new(ish) hotness. More opinionated about how to structure your app, and (to my mind) better off for it. MVC is also a pattern that lots of frameworks in many languages use, so that knowledge will transfer easier if you want to pick something else up later.

Grab Visual Studio Express for Web here: http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/pr...
Tutorials here: http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials

Garden Ninja wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
I should learn ASP. Someone point me in the right direction!

Well, for starters, let's get some terminology straight because that could mean 3 different things.

Classic ASP: No. Just no.

That's where I started my career. It's crazy to think that somebody thought it was okay to put SQL Server connection details into an ASP page. That was a crazy period of time.

trueheart78 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
I should learn ASP. Someone point me in the right direction!

What's the need? Are you looking to write web apps or just do embedded logic?

ASP.NET. Need to be able to help more with an internal business site we're building, so that I can maybe help get us back on schedule.

Garden Ninja wrote:

Grab Visual Studio Express for Web here: http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/pr...
Tutorials here: http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials

Thanks!

That's where I started my career. It's crazy to think that somebody thought it was okay to put SQL Server connection details into an ASP page. That was a crazy period of time.

Wasn't just closed source doing crap like that, either. PHP was just about as bad, even to the point of putting blatantly insecure examples in the documentation.

I really don't like PHP.

Oh god, one of their devs did a wholesale revert of a change one of my devs did days ago, quite literally "just because".

IMAGE(http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/56/95/7890f6112c0b7925960efaa915a58a56-dropmic3.gif)

McIrishJihad wrote:
Oh god, one of their devs did a wholesale revert of a change one of my devs did days ago, quite literally "just because".

IMAGE(http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/56/95/7890f6112c0b7925960efaa915a58a56-dropmic3.gif)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/Ut7joVv.jpg)

I don't think there's enough face palms for that

McIrishJihad wrote:
And they're used to using Git, so at least 4 times a day I get to hear how "git is so much better than SVN", "this would be easier with git", and "why aren't you guys using git?"

The funny part about this is that you can actually use git against an SVN repo with git-svn. So they are literally complaining about nothing.

Ranger Rick wrote:
The funny part about this is that you can actually use git against an SVN repo with git-svn. So they are literally complaining about nothing.

Not really true--git-svn is a decent exporter but for a nontrivial SVN tree it rapidly stops being a practical solution (especially if it involves externals).

Anyone here use (or have used) Play Framework? Looking at a job opening and I've never used it before, so I'm kind of trying to feel out how complicated it may or may not be.

Edit: I do have a decent amount of Java experience, but I haven't used Scala before, if that plays into it.

I've never used it, but I hear good things. My boss gets excited any time a candidate says they've used it.

Ed Ropple wrote:
Not really true--git-svn is a decent exporter but for a nontrivial SVN tree it rapidly stops being a practical solution (especially if it involves externals).

Ah, well, the only SVN trees I've encountered recently are trivial because any projects I've seen using SVN are afraid to branch because it's so slow and hard to manage merges. I know things have improved since we used SVN regularly a couple of years ago, but most SVN-using projects I have worked with never got past that stage so tracking and updating using git has been super-easy. YMMV

SixteenBlue wrote:
I've never used it, but I hear good things.

Yeah, that's the start and end of my knowledge of it as well, but the people that use it seem to really like it.

Ranger Rick wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
I've never used it, but I hear good things.

Yeah, that's the start and end of my knowledge of it as well, but the people that use it seem to really like it.

Well that's encouraging at the very least. Sounds like it could be a great next step from where I'm at. Besides, there's nothing like learning a new framework to transition out of one thing and into something new and exciting. Thanks for your feedback. ^_^

I may actually look into that myself. I tried learning Scala a while back and I liked it but I need something concrete to build to really learn a language at this point.

skylarhawk wrote:
Anyone here use (or have used) Play Framework? Looking at a job opening and I've never used it before, so I'm kind of trying to feel out how complicated it may or may not be.

Edit: I do have a decent amount of Java experience, but I haven't used Scala before, if that plays into it.

I've messed with it some, it's pretty cool. You can use Java or Scala or both in the same project - it makes a nice Java -> Scala sandbox/gateway.

skylarhawk wrote:
Anyone here use (or have used) Play Framework? Looking at a job opening and I've never used it before, so I'm kind of trying to feel out how complicated it may or may not be.

Yeah, I use it daily and there's nothing out there that I'd rather be using in its role. It's seriously best-of-breed--Play's a clear step up from the various Java options out there (and I say this because Java in Play is basically not viable, it's significantly more verbose and you still need to know Scala for templating) and provides a high-performance, extremely scalable base infrastructure to work off of.

Part of this is Play, part of this is Akka, part of this is Scala being a full-stop Better Than Java tool that lets you leverage existing stuff where it makes sense.

(Don't use the built-in database stuff, though, unless you have specific reasons you need it. Squeryl is a great database abstraction that works well with Play and allows you to avoid a lot of boilerplate.)

Great feedback tboon and Ed. Sounds like I should maybe dig into Play a bit, even is this job offer doesn't pan out for me. It's been a while since I've been in Java, but learning something new like Scala and this framework could be a fun project. Looks like I just need to come up with something to do with them. That's probably not going to be very difficult at all.

Play looks interesting. I think we have a project at work which is using bits of Scala or Clojure that might be interested in that if they ever want to get away from Spring.

So Docker's pretty baller. I have it running on my virtual Mesos cluster (shameless plug alert) using Deimos as well as on the server that's actually running that blog.

skylarhawk wrote:
Anyone here use (or have used) Play Framework? Looking at a job opening and I've never used it before, so I'm kind of trying to feel out how complicated it may or may not be.

Edit: I do have a decent amount of Java experience, but I haven't used Scala before, if that plays into it.

I haven't built anything professional in it, but I love experimenting with it. Which is super easy to do. Just grab the Typesafe Activator download, unzip and run the activator.bat. It will grab all of its scala library dependencies and run a localhost web app where you can try out dozens of web app templates for all sorts of web tech, compile code, run tests, edit files, and run apps. The Activator web app is a completely optional way to get a project started. You can convert over to Eclipse or what-have-you afterward.