Call of Duty: Black Ops - Catch All

liquid wrote:

What, I won't be able to play all the modes in HC? To hell with those playlists, this is the stupidest thing ever.

Was tickled that there was more than just TDM in HC.

I'm going PC on this. I like these games on the 360 and do well with them, but the PC feels oh so much better.

If those playlists are the same on the PC (how would they work, though, we got servers?) I might skip this one as well. Ranked servers will have only map and game type rotation to customize which is another moronic decision but I can live with it unless they force me to play in some pre-defined modes and have to switch servers to try different things.
So far this isn't on a pre-order list, I'll wait and see. I'll have to spend a few extra bucks but at least I will know for sure how things work before making a purchase.

ranalin wrote:
liquid wrote:

What, I won't be able to play all the modes in HC? To hell with those playlists, this is the stupidest thing ever.

Was tickled that there was more than just TDM in HC.

I'm going PC on this. I like these games on the 360 and do well with them, but the PC feels oh so much better.

Not only do we get dedicated servers which should improve playability overall, but it also gives groups their preferred way to play, quickly. Mods too, but Treyarch really haven't spoke openly about those.

Here's what I'm reading and I don't know if it is confirmed or not but those things worry me:
- no mode/map rotation on ranked servers
- no HC mode for every map/game type
- you can only play certain modes on certain maps
- not being able to ban certain killstreaks/weapons/perks on ranked servers
- even if servers are with 18 slots, does this mean you still will have 18 only on TDM and 12 on CTF?

So basically you buy a ranked server so you can ban/kick people and that's it. If this is the case, why should I buy a server (or even the game)? Seems like the unranked servers will be how (or close to) CoD4 servers worked. I really see no real reason for them to disable those options on ranked servers - none of those are really exploitable in a bad way that will hurt the game.
And if you can play with all those options on the unranked servers you won't have any CoD points, no progression(?), etc. What's the point in playing unranked then? I don't know, either I'm missing something or they are doing it wrong.

Q:@pcdev RT ranked = playlists + map exclude list-Does this mean matchmaking and no control at all (exept Maps) over a server I am paying for?
A:@blackMonkeysDE you can decide, but with some constraints. some map+gamemode combos are not good for ranked matches.
Q:@pcdev What if I want to run an SD only server ranked... is this possible? Your tweet really needs to be explained more.
A:@blackMonkeysDE yes

http://www.blackmonkeys.de/?p=4077

I started a 360 silver account for MW2, so it is still up and running and ready to go for Black Ops. Post up and send out the friend requests if you are getting the game for the 360:

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/4...

http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/p...

I have to say I didn't expect this.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/p...

I have to say I didn't expect this.

Interesting... maybe there were more people like me than I thought... people who felt the mechanics/gameplay of MW2 were just a little 'off'... traded in their game after a couple months... and are eagerly awaiting more, good CoD gameplay.

I think at this point even the most die hard MW2 fan is pretty fatigued with the game. BO offers more of the same play style but brand new maps, levels, unlocks, and such that most fans love. Plus, the nazi zombie maps were a huge selling point for the game, so I'm really not that surprised. With the demise of MoH looks like this might be my go to FPS, unless DICE whip out something unexpected.

I'll likely buy this strictly to run through the campaign once and then play beers-n-zombies with pals. No zombie mode in MW2 made me a sad panda.

This is looking good. I like the gritty feel. I just hope they've toned down the rasberry jam (I've seen it creeping onto the screen in some trailers.) Those 'escape by the skin of your teeth' moments in a fire fight are the best parts of most shooters for me and I don't want to play them through blurred, red gloop.

G4 footage from a Vietnam jungle multiplayer map.

I'm kind of disappointed that the Zombies are making a return, they were a great easter egg at the end of World at War and Treyarch did some impressive things with the new maps but when you making a selling point on the back of the box for the next game it sounds more like a gimmick than an easter egg.

World at War was good, possibly even great, FPS without Zombies and Black Ops looks to be taking everything Treyarch has learned over numerous iterations of Call of Duty as well as the mistakes of Modern Warfare 2 (more is not always More and and is shaping up to be a great game. Look at the Pre-Orders, they've outpaced MW2, Black Ops doesn't need Zombies to do well. I would have rather Treyarch ditched the Zombies and focused on game balance, the new game modes and single player.

And when Treyarch puts out a 'Call of the Grave' for $15 or even as a full retail game to compete with the likes of Left 4 Dead, I'll buy that in a heartbeat.

Ballotechnic wrote:

G4 footage from a Vietnam jungle multiplayer map.

The studio head made at least four mentions to the map's being tailored for snipers. Ugh.

I'd really like for this game to be what I expected MW2 to be, but that video doesn't do anything to alleviate my fears that it will be more of what I didn't like about MW2.

CptGlanton wrote:

The studio head made at least four mentions to the map's being tailored for snipers. Ugh.

And that's why its the one they showed, because so many players get off on being a good Sniper in FPS's. Hopefully there will be enough flanking routes and other ways to counter the Snipers.

CptGlanton wrote:

that video doesn't do anything to alleviate my fears that it will be more of what I didn't like about MW2.

Which were? MW2 has plenty of faults; the cluttered HUD with all the Title and Emblem and other things, how overpowered some of the Kill Steaks were, Tactical Insertion abuse, how long it took to level up at later levels and the difficulty of getting some of the Weapon unlocks, especially Extended Mags and more to be sure.

One thing I have noticed is a lack of any mention of Death Streaks, am I just missing it? I thought they were an interesting way of leveling the playing field if you were getting schooled, but to some extent it is a Rubber-Band solution. Has it simply been dropped or does Treyarch have an alternate solution?

Treyarch's solution to the MW2 Weapon & Attachment problem has potential but its not without a problem. I felt the amount of Kills with a given weapon needed to unlock its attachments in MW1 and [email protected] were pretty much in the sweet spot, but the number needed in MW2 were absurd. 300 Kills for FMJ with Assault Rifles. Now part of that was that there were simply more attachments in MW2, but when you can get from level 1 to level 70 only leveling up Assault Rifles and then not even finishing them all before Prestiging, thats too much. Treyarch's solution of CoD Points is interesting because what you unlock next becomes a choice, but it makes it a Zero-Sum game. If I get that weapon, then I cant afford that attachment, if I get that Perk I cant get that weapon, if I get that Facepaint i cant get that Perk. If Treyarch is too stingy with the Points, then the ability to choose it moot because you wont have the Points to purchase anything.

Sorry about the Quotes, I dont know what I did wrong and can't seem to fix them.

Don't sweat it about the quote, or any short-term future links. It's a spambot guard. Once you hit Intern status--under your name--you'll have full posting privileges.

CptGlanton wrote:
Ballotechnic wrote:

G4 footage from a Vietnam jungle multiplayer map.

The studio head made at least four mentions to the map's being tailored for snipers. Ugh.

Weee!

CptGlanton wrote:

My other two concerns with MW2 were the lag (far too often, what happened on my screen and on the kill cam were only tangentially related), the perks, and the dev's slow responses to what I thought were obvious problems (the dual-wielding antique shotguns, for example, or the rampant boosting). We'll have to wait and see how those shake out.

Treyarch (who made CoD 3, WaW. Infinity ward made CoD, 2, 4/mw, mw2) are going with dedicated servers for this one, at least on PC.

Scratched wrote:
CptGlanton wrote:

My other two concerns with MW2 were the lag (far too often, what happened on my screen and on the kill cam were only tangentially related), the perks, and the dev's slow responses to what I thought were obvious problems (the dual-wielding antique shotguns, for example, or the rampant boosting). We'll have to wait and see how those shake out.

Treyarch (who made CoD 3, WaW. Infinity ward made CoD, 2, 4/mw, mw2) are going with dedicated servers for this one, at least on PC.

Dedicated servers are available to rent, but p2p is still the default connection.

p2p? There will be official servers where you can play, even wager modes (last pcdev mentioned) were on servers, but there will be p2p/listening mode for "lan" and other stuff like playing with the bots, etc.

My main concern with the video was its kills. I saw, repeatedly, kills by a stationary player, waiting in a place that looked like either a sniper perch or, at least, a camping spot, shooting guys from the side or back (or above) as they ran through a main thoroughfare (as it were) of the map. There is quite enough sniping and camping among players attracted to CoD as it is--I don't need a developer to go out of their way to showcase it, as I thought the video and commentary did. To compare, I've been playing a lot of Halo Reach MP, and I never feel as if I were shot by someone camping in an unsportsmanlike way. Definitions of that can vary from player to player, but it's my impression so far.

My other concerns with MW2 were the lag (far too often, what happened on my screen and on the kill cam were only tangentially related), the perks, and the dev's slow responses to what I thought were obvious problems (the dual-wielding antique shotguns, for example, or the rampant boosting). We'll have to wait and see how those shake out.

http://www.torontosun.com/tech/games...

I don't think this writer can possibly be telling the truth, mainly because it says it will be in 3D on the Xbox as well.

@CptGlanton

I share some of your views about the potential 'un-funness' of this level for players who don't/can't snipe very well (i.e. me). They risk simply becoming fodder for good snipers K/D-Rs in an endless cycle of spawn, run a little bit, die (and yes, early days of MAG, I'm looking at you).

There appears to be too much verticality in this map; CoD is hard enough when you're checking your 12, 3 & 9 and worrying about your 6. Up in the air too?

That said, I don't have a problem with snipers per se (though I do notice from the various forums that they are the class that consistently attracts the most opprobrium in FPSs); after all, camping at key spots and picking off opposing forces is exactly what snipers are meant to do.

What I do have a problem with is the lack of incentives in FPSs for players to work together to take snipers down. Instead game types, game structures and the way XP is awarded actively encourage selfish behaviour. For example, players A, B and C rush a Domination objective. Player B gets plugged, and what do A & C do? Search for easier pickings elsewhere because:

a) it's highly likely that they'll be involved in a skirmish before they reach the sniper's location;
b) if they do reach the sniper's location he or she will be long gone.

Given the arcade nature of CoD, I doubt that there's a structural solution to this. The only thing I can come up with are more strict limits on the sniper class (e.g. no faster reload perks, inabilty to carry more than a conventional pistol as a secondary and a movement penalty of some kind... based around the idea that snipers are meant to be stealthy).

But otherwise, I'm really looking forward to the multiplayer on this game.

Treyarch has always paid special attention to how they create and balance sniper nests, as seen in World at War. Take Upheaval for example. There were plenty of vertical camp spots in the houses but many had only one window facing in one direction so someone sniping had to always be careful of enemies approaching from their blind spot

A big part of how the whole sniper vs rusher gamplay will pan out will depend upon how the hacker perk (turn enemy claymores and equipment against them) deals with claymores. This can even be used with flak jacket (which reduces explosive damage) if there are multiple claymores involved in a small area.

Anyone whose played Airfield in WaW will know the the large L-shaped building is a haven for snipers but getting there with an smg is a problem because it is almost always a minefield of bouncing betties. Now instead of the passive bomb squad perk people coming after campers should better tools to navigate the traps and get the kill

Chairman_Mao wrote:

http://www.torontosun.com/tech/games...

I don't think this writer can possibly be telling the truth, mainly because it says it will be in 3D on the Xbox as well.

Why can't that happen? The only big thing the 360 can't do technically would be the dashboard in 3D (unless they eventually update). Once in a game, it can do what it wants.

I think Crysis 2 will also support 3D on the 360.

CptGlanton wrote:

My main concern with the video was its kills. I saw, repeatedly, kills by a stationary player, waiting in a place that looked like either a sniper perch or, at least, a camping spot, shooting guys from the side or back (or above) as they ran through a main thoroughfare (as it were) of the map. There is quite enough sniping and camping among players attracted to CoD as it is--I don't need a developer to go out of their way to showcase it, as I thought the video and commentary did. To compare, I've been playing a lot of Halo Reach MP, and I never feel as if I were shot by someone camping in an unsportsmanlike way. Definitions of that can vary from player to player, but it's my impression so far.

You did mention taht this impression can vary from person to person, but personally there's not been a map from a CoD game CoD2 and onward that once you played awhile you're able to learn all lines of fire regardless where you are. If you get sniped you instantly know where it came from. The trick is how you go about getting the guy back which there's usually multiple ways to go about it.

@Ranalin

I've just reread CptGlanton's post in light of your comments, and I get what he means now. There are a few locations in Modern Warfare 2 maps that encourage and reward 'unsporting' camping. Specifically, I'm thinking of the hard-to-reach-but-totally-preposterous-once-you-get-there rooftop sniping location in 'Highrise', and the bunker complex in 'Afghan'. Both are place snipers in very strong positions in terms of their inherent defensive advantages.

I agree that defining what constitutes 'unsportsmanlike camping' is hard. It's one of those things that's hard to put into words... but we all know what it looks like when we see it. My own tentative definition is something about taking up one of those plum positions then staying there for an indecent amount of time or number of kills (4? 5?)

The issue with the Jungle map is that it's been designed to be a sniper's paradise, and that there may be more than one plum spot. I'm sure that PlainGreyT is right about Treyarch's ability to balance maps. But my nightmare is a well-organised clan coming in 'all ghillied up' (to borrow a phrase), nabbing all the platforms and perches and then laying waste to the disorganised opposition. One of the most disheartening occurances in MW2 is the sight of a big clan joining a lobby... and the sound of half the other non-clanned players backing out...

This month's GT Bonus Round is dedicated to Black Ops.

Watch the parts together
Part 1: The Design Directive
Part 2: Trailer Secrets!

MannishBoy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

http://www.torontosun.com/tech/games...

I don't think this writer can possibly be telling the truth, mainly because it says it will be in 3D on the Xbox as well.

Why can't that happen? The only big thing the 360 can't do technically would be the dashboard in 3D (unless they eventually update). Once in a game, it can do what it wants.

I think Crysis 2 will also support 3D on the 360.

Ok. I hadn't heard that the Xbox was going to support 3D--Sony has already patched the PS3 to enable 3D gaming, has Microsoft done the same?

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Ok. I hadn't heard that the Xbox was going to support 3D--Sony has already patched the PS3 to enable 3D gaming, has Microsoft done the same?

MS isn't specifically supporting it, hence my comment about the dashboard. But passing 3D frames to an HDTV doesn't require anything special from the console itself other than rendering ability. See also the Avatar game.

I do think I read where the CoD implementation actually uses a different technical frame method for the PS3 vs the 360, though.