Soccer Gaming Catch-All

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I'm interested to see what this year's iterations of Footy games are going to bring us. Konami, once kings of gameplay have stagnated and possibly stepped backwards in the worst way since making the jump to next-gen with Pro Evo. For me, at least, 2008 was a immense dissapointment and the game needs a major improvement in the AI stakes. Will Konami do it? Consider that the AI in PES seems largely the same as it was five years ago (especially in defense), i'm guessing not.

EA could take the lead this year if FIFA 09 seems as good as I remember the Demo for Euro 2008 seemed to have the potential for. Euro 2008 felt a lot more organic and fluid than stolid, stodgy, boring and plain FIFA 08, so i'm really interested to see what both companies are going to bring to the table. Konami still has my trust, but only barely.

FM Live? I'm still mastering FM 2008, and to be honest, as much as I want to have more sports games to play online with my fellow Goodjers, i'm not sure, from what i've read, that FM Live is going to be the game that draws me in. Maybe I need to read more, who knows.

So, comments? Opinions?

Prederick wrote:

So, comments? Opinions?

Not really, I just wanted you to make a thread.

Just kidding.

Prederick wrote:

Konami, once kings of gameplay have stagnated and possibly stepped backwards in the worst way since making the jump to next-gen with Pro Evo. For me, at least, 2008 was a immense dissapointment and the game needs a major improvement in the AI stakes. Will Konami do it? Consider that the AI in PES seems largely the same as it was five years ago (especially in defense), i'm guessing not.

Short disclaimer: I can't help to love PES anyway because of all the time I've put into it. I tried to count all these hours one day and came up with something like 30 seasons in Master Leagues, 50 games per season, at least 15-20 minutes per game. PES is like playing football to me because it relies on rules I understand. It doesn't *resemble* playing football, I don't think that anyone will reach that point in next five years (they have to switch to a 360 degree movement + on-the-fly animation), but it does feel alike, because it lets me understand how rules that govern the game world apply to the game I'm playing. In PES I know what I've done or should have done in order to take some action. I don't feel that kind of love in FIFA (long story short: do something with that first touch mechanics, you canadian f*ckers).

Still, last year was miserable. They've wanted to make a big leap and ended halfway through. PES 2008 has really improved the way that dribbling works, allowing you to beat opponents with just changing pace (and that's what dribbling is about). So what, if they didn't do anything with the way that tackling works and AI positions it's defenders. Same goes with great player faces and models used with old engine graphics and those crappy stadiums. I think that this year all those things are gonna click because they've finished their leap, it's the same thing that FIFA was facing since it moved to next-gen.

You're perfectly right, the biggest problem still seems to be AI. (Same goes for AI in FIFA which is capable of even more ridiculous things when in possession). I don't think that they're able to make big step forward in that matter, I guess that really good AI would require reworking engine from scratch, rather than relying on past iterations. But the question we should ask ourselves is what really is such big pain in the ass. Since we won't get *thinking* players on pitch for couple of years (SI is struggling with that for over half a decade, after all) we should expect small improvements in the most important areas. Konami is said to be reworking defence positioning, player runs and TeamVision in regard to Master League. If they could deliver I will be happy cause I don't really expect more.

Here's interesting list of new features that have been confirmed. Quite contrary to EA, Konami is pretty definite about improvements they're implementing. My few favourites are:
--new animations emphasized on creating real game flow,
--improved weather,
--lighting (that's what this engine needed for past four years) 'that mimic the time of day more closely' (I'd love to see what they mean by that; maybe it's just me but realistic weather and proper lighting creates real atmosphere during games, they've done it really good in FIFA 2008),
--getting rid of those ugly menus (even if the new ones are running in text mode under DOS console, it will still be an improvement)
--match stats on a sub menus: 'mkay, I know it's a small thing, but I really missed that feature for all these past years (said ucrc waving goodbye to PLAYER NAME _ AGE _ GOALS TODAY)
--some sort field of view for camera focus (we still got to see it, but it sounds promising, provided they won't overdo it)

And that's all for now. I haven't touched FM 2008 cause I need to get sober first (errr, sorry for all misspellings above). I will post any PES 2009 news cause they should start floating about 20th which is when Konami lifts it's embargo.

Guh, the dribbling. I would've liked it more, but since WE6 or so, on any real difficulty level it's felt like the defenders have taken speed pills and I can't get by them no matter what I do (at least, against the CPU. Now if i'm tearing down the wing with CR7 in a head-to-head game against some leaden-footed left-back, then it works).

What I will say though, is that you score real goals in PES. Not so much in FIFA.

Also, they really, really need to improve the goalkeeper AI. It was shambolic last year.

I don't think I've played any of the soccer games since 2006. With PES 6 there seemed to be no middle ground with AI difficulty. It was either really bad or really good. Maybe it was me switching from console to PC (since the bastards didn't make an XBox version)? PES 6 made me feel like I sucked at soccer games.

That year's FIFA games seemed pretty unremarkable too. The last few FIFA games I played seemed pretty bad compared to PES. I think PES 5 for the XBox was the last soccer game I liked.

Since I've gotten my 360 I've been thinking about soccer games again. At this point if I'm going to try a soccer game I will probably wait until the respective '09 versions hit. Guess I will keep my eye on this thread.

Prederick wrote:

Guh, the dribbling. I would've liked it more, but since WE6 or so, on any real difficulty level it's felt like the defenders have taken speed pills and I can't get by them no matter what I do (at least, against the CPU. Now if i'm tearing down the wing with CR7 in a head-to-head game against some leaden-footed left-back, then it works).

It might be a question of getting used to it (like I said, I might be not the greatest player, but I know game mechanics really well because of all that time I've devoted) but I think that you could do it easily. There's always, no matter what, a chance that you could get past a defender. There is some kind of flow to it, whereas in every FIFA match in plenty situations I know that I'm going to lose ball no matter what.
They still have problems with balancing it. System PES uses is simple and easy (basically you don't learn tricks, most of the time you just move and fake shots), they just need to find that sweet spot. This year they've overdone it, in fact you could just run past anyone with player like CR making 80m runs. I've bought Arshavin for one of my Master League games so I know what I'm talking about They've talked a lot about balancing all that stuff and thinking over one-on-one situations.

Does one of these games have, or plan on having a Master League/Franchise thats playable online? The very minimum here to me is to at least be able to invite a friend to play the game. My friend and I used to play a 2 player PES Master League, but he's moved and the crappy online features of past games has prevented us from playing. I havent payed attention to the last few games other than a few instances of watching over someone's shoulders. FIFA looked a lot better in one of these past games.

Have any of them taken the next step Online yet?

I think FIFA might had. I don't play online cause my bandwidth is crap so I'm not sure. PES still suck online, though.

Seriously. I know internet use is different across the Pacific, but Konami's really getting its ass kicked on that front. I doubt either game will have an online franchise mode to rival Madden or All-Pro Football. Of the two, FIFA's probably more likely to have online leagues, although, desperate as I am for some fun, i'd happily set up a cup or league for us.

As far as the PES dribbling goes, I never really got it on the harder levels, as I said. I quickly tired of slower defenders catching up with faster players, and I couldn't get the whole "changing speeds" thing down, and I sank nearly as much time into the game as you probably have. The fact that PES explains so much in the manual and in training, and yet explains so very little (or in my opinion, makes it very unintuitive) of the minutiae and game-situational stuff is frustrating, for me at least.

In all honestly, i've never still gotten the hang of Free-kicks in PES 2008 or longshots (I've scored once from 30m+, and i'm convinced that i'll never do it again without cheating).

Prederick wrote:

Seriously. I know internet use is different across the Pacific, but Konami's really getting its ass kicked on that front. I doubt either game will have an online franchise mode to rival Madden or All-Pro Football. Of the two, FIFA's probably more likely to have online leagues, although, desperate as I am for some fun, i'd happily set up a cup or league for us.

I would be happy to join but pings will probably kill me, especially when playing across the ocean. Also, I haven't played PES online in few years cause my friends suck badly so playing with someone might be a nice change of pace. There's big gap between gameplay vs AI and living opponent, I used to win by 4-5 goal margin with my friend who usually performed as good as I did in Master League.

Prederick wrote:

The fact that PES explains so much in the manual and in training, and yet explains so very little (or in my opinion, makes it very unintuitive) of the minutiae and game-situational stuff is frustrating, for me at least.

You're right. For me it was just at some point in PES 4 or 5 where things just clicked and I started to 'feel' the game. But that isn't easy, I'm still not used to the improvements that PES 2008 introduced.

Prederick wrote:

In all honestly, i've never still gotten the hang of Free-kicks in PES 2008 or longshots (I've scored once from 30m+, and i'm convinced that i'll never do it again without cheating).

Shooting from distance isn't that difficult, I'm scoring a lot of goals from 20-25m. Biggest problem seems to be AI closing down in every situation, and positioning itself perfectly between you and a goal (try playing build-up like Arsenal in the final third and see how opponents behave) which prevents you from having a shot.

Not gonna lie I don't play FIFA or PES. Something about simulated sports games that never translate into the real thing when they try. After reading Legions Madden thread its that kind of stuff that turned me off sports games but I never knew why. Allot of little things that just add up and make your brain realize you really are not playing a game that similar to the real sport.

I do play FM though. Like way too much. My current Barca team in 2012 I think is

GK: Valdes
RB: Alves (some wonder kid as his backup learning the ropes)
CB: Milito, Vidal (+ 2 decent backups)
LB: Pasqual (Traore his soon replacement)
Mid: Yaya and Javi Martinez (just cost 40m from AC!, with Sankhare as a backup)
AM: Messi, Iniesta, Ronaldo! (payed 62m for Ronaldo :D, Dos Santos, Lago SP?, Aquino as subs)
and superman himself Bojan up front doing like everything!

Tried to get Cesc or Benzema but both clubs are so far from needing money only bids of 60m+ work. Cant unsettle them like the Spanish propaganda press does in real life.

Tobold the guy who does a MMO blog is in the FM Live beta. He says its pretty much a PvP game where people who play/do more are higher ranked. Out of 1000 teams he said he started low shot up fairly quickly to 250 range and thats where he tailed off. Now he can only jump up a couple spots or fall back a couple. Really haven't followed FM Live much at all TBH. Not sure how the game translates with fake teams and players. Half the fun of FM for me is starting at a lower club getting hired on at a major one and then building my dream team. My current game I started at QPR for 2 years and somehow Ferguson retired Frank went from Barca to Man U and I got the Barca job with really questionable amount of experience. I think my favorite run in FM ever was getting hired on at Juve after Deschamp failed to promote them from Serie B and then taking them back to A and turning them into a powerhouse again.

UCRC wrote:

Shooting from distance isn't that difficult, I'm scoring a lot of goals from 20-25m. Biggest problem seems to be AI closing down in every situation, and positioning itself perfectly between you and a goal (try playing build-up like Arsenal in the final third and see how opponents behave) which prevents you from having a shot.

Oh, getting space hasn't been a problem. Managing a shot that isn't A.) Woefully underpowered, B.) Woefully inaccurate, C.) Aimed directly at the keeper, or D.) Better suited to a Rugby game is the issue.

I don't mean to sound like i'm slamming PES, as i've said here, and in a bunch of other threads, despite all of my issues, it still made such an attempt at replicating the game, and was so right at times, that I loved it too much to put the kibosh on it. There's some stuff people get that I just never have. Long shots, breaking down defenders one-on-one, and a few other things I can't remember.

You know what i'd like the most? If defenders really defended in PES 2009. If putting the game on the hardest level didn't end up with Andriy Shevchenko coming charging at you at top speed and making an inch-perfect tackle. If when you ran at defenders, they backed up, like they should. That'd be a nice start.

Like I said about FM Live, from what I heard, I wasn't interested, and the regular FM games, from what I remember, can only be played online, so PBEM is out. Considering how long a single week of FM can take, that doesn't sound feasible. I have more fun just playing games and comparing them with friends. Sometimes Arsenal wins the champions league, sometimes Litex Lovech wins the UEFA Cup (this actually happened repeatedly in FM 2006).

In all honesty, I think I enjoyed FM 07 a bit more than I do FM 08 currently, or, at least, I had a better handle of the tactical side of things (I'm still behind the ball in FM 08, I couldn't effectively utilize Riquelme as a No. 10 if you paid me) but I still enjoy it, although i've taken to playing it LLaMa-style rather than starting with the big clubs. The downside is that I am terminally flighty about starting games (getting five seasons in is a major accomplishment for me) so I can't even count how many clubs i've played by now.

Prederick wrote:

Sometimes Arsenal wins the champions league, sometimes Litex Lovech wins the UEFA Cup (this actually happened repeatedly in FM 2006).

Ireland - Brazil 3-0 in 2010 World Cup final. f*ckin' A.

Just like Prederick I was always way too impatient to play FM, keeping reloading games after losing etc. But this year I've treated it more seriously because I've done some reading (fmbritain for the win) and finally understood how it works. When you move beyond certain point all the frustration is replaced by feeling of a challenge.
Still I have started with numerous clubs just to keep playing for three months and then delete my save. However I've managed to get my Ajax side to 2012. I don't dig buying well-known players and creating BEST TEAM EVAR with likes of Milans and Barcas. I just want to play nice football and build strong side with less known players.
Here's how my Ajax looked:
GK: Stekelenburg (Ajax)
DL: Emmanuelson (Ajax, he develops to be great player)
Also, Guiliherme (18 or 19 yo at beggining, Vasco) could be bought cheaply and unlike all those Brazilian wonderkids he is pretty strong and not dumb.
DR: Behrami (Lazio; that's the best right defender in the whole game, I believe; I've payed 10mil euro for him and thought it was a bit of gamble but two seasons later off to Real he went for over 20mil)
DCs: Breno (some Brazil club) is an awesome wonderkid, probably the best in game. (I love discovering them by myself, I don't read any guides) In fact in 8.02 he is already sold out to Bayern for 7.75mil at the start of game (I've sold him for 21 ;]). Right now guy is playing for Brazil in Olympic Tournament.
Same thing with Cahais, 17 yo Argentinian who is loaned out to Netherlands in update.
Obviously Ajax defenders themselves are pretty good (but not particulary great): Maduro (gone to Napoli), Vermealen (I'm not sure how it spells, gone to Barca), Heitinga (Barca) - I've got almost 30mil for three of them. Young Belgian defender Verthogen who is 22 is a great prospect, very skilled DC/MC at the same time.
MCs: Until you play the biggest teams you won't sign likes of van der Vaart no matter how money you could put on table (hey simply won't talk with you) so you have to be really creative when looking for AMC.
Defensive midfielder was the greatest choice in game: Jean II Makoun (bought for 8; Lille; sold for 23 to ManU; they wanted to buy him in real life for few past seasons ;]) later on replaced by Alou Diarra (Bordeaux, turned out to be even better player, could be snapped for 6-8mil)
AMCs: I've bought Fabinho from Tolouse at the beggining of game, you could get him for 4-5 million and he is very skilled playmaker;
I've tried Riquelme for season, and Prederick is right: there's no way to get player like him going. He ended up with 6.90 in one season but problem was consistency. If you give him a possibility to be a playmaker he really stands out, you just can't build the whole team around him because he isn't a solid performer.
My next choice was Donati from Celtic because he develops nicely and is very skilled on both attacking (creativity, technique) and defending front (he is DM by default).
One of biggest talents in game is Wijnaldum from Feyenord. 16 at the start of game he was already a world class midfielder in 2012. You could buy him for 200k
MLs: Mitea. He might not seem to be an obvious choice because some off his stats are crap, but that doesn't matter. He dribbles very well and most importantly: posseses a great pace and creativity, he is the most impressive player for counter-attacks I've ever seen in FM, making runs like CR7. He could play as a striker which means he will often complete his runs with striking at goal. He proven to be best player in team scoring against big sides like Real, Tottenham or Manchester United.
Also try to buy Trecarchi (Sevilla), 17 yo who is as good as Mitea before he reaches 20 and Chelsea wants to buy him for over fifteen millions.
MRs: Arshavin (Zenit St. Petersburg), because he is cheap. With his creativity and constantly driving at goal I had two amazing wingers. Unfortunately you can't play him against stronger sides because defence suffers too much with players like him.
FCs: Klaas Jan Huntelaar. He could be bought at the beginning of game for 15mil. Barca offered me 38 millions for him. I refused. Guy's a goddamn genius, best target man in whole game and one of most intelligent players. Need I say more?
Podolski (Bayern). His former club hated him as much as in real life. Like I've just said: when you play side like Ajax you won't just buy big names even when you have money, and Podolski was the best striker I could get. Cost me 9 million, turned out to be as good as Huntelaar, Barca offers 30 million.
I have Andrea Caracciolo (Sampdoria) on bench, he's a player with great physical attributes so he should do great for weaker sides. You could buy him as cheap as 3 million.

So, my best XI looks like this:
Stekelenburg - Behrami, Emmanuelson, Cahais, Breno - Arshavin, Mitea, Makoun/Diarra, Donati - Podolski, Huntelaar
Despite winning my league over and over I've only came as far as CL quarter-finals. It's much easier to compete in CL when you play in strong league, because when coming from Eredivisie and dominating all sides by three-four goals I always had problem with making my players to switch to more defensive football. If it wasn't for players like Behrami and Breno leaving for bigger clubs I guess I would perform better. Still, I've managed to beat teams like Barcelona 3-1, Manchester United 2-0. Tottenham 2-0, Valencia 3-0 during all these years.

Now I started playing Cardiff City, they have literally no budget and 100k left in salary budget so you basically have your hands tied right from beggining. And I dig challenges like that, after few months I'm safely mid-table and enjoy my game, playing nice possession football.

Another FM-Britain acolyte! If it wasn't for the Tactical Bible, i'd never get a game.

Like I said, I play the game LLaMa-style. Well, no, that's a lie. Because mention players and tactics and other naughty things hardcore LLaMa's don't do, I just incorporate some of the thinking (No signing players you haven't scouted, get hired from scratch or take the crappest team you can find) so I think the best player i've ever had in a FM game was when a 37-year old Jay-Jay Okocha decided to take a spin at my newly-promoted Boston United side.

I kind of enjoy being mediocre at the game, because I read stuff from people who are just ridiculously good at it and I'm glad i'm not them. I have had no issues with FM being "too easy", for me, it's still awfully tough.

I usually try to start at lower clubs and only go to larger ones if offered but the amount of poaching of good players you find yourself and build up or finding the great prospect only to get turned down because even though you can offer him 5x his wages your not Madrid is annoying.

Going to start a new game I think as my Barca save is getting kinda boring (easy). Going to try a lower league I think maybe even S.A. I honestly have never started a game trying to manage a Brazil or Argentinian side. Maybe even MLS would be kinda funny to be in a league with the draft.

Prederick wrote:

Another FM-Britain acolyte! If it wasn't for the Tactical Bible, i'd never get a game.

wwfan is my god.

I've played some more Cardiff City yesterday and as much as having 883 pounds of budget suck (Board Expectations: Win a league by the end of four year plan; Loan debt: 30 000 000 pounds) I still love this challenge.

Yikes, Leipzig is here.
For starters: FIFA 09 trailers (SD links):
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/3...
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/101...
Like always they're showing amazing trailers with great tricks you won't get to do in a game (remember last year intro?), but this time overall flow of the game looks improved. If one-on-one mechanics and that idiotic first touch (that will make you run with ball into your own goal again, just like they almost did in video) are improved, then I will give it a shot. Actual gameplay video looks very last year to me, with ball glued to your feet and players running and passing looking so dull, goalies are still stupid jerks.

We should get PES 2009 previews galore any minute now cause Konami lifts newsembargo just after their press meeting. The ones I've heard so far are mildly positive.

Truer words. I don't think I ever even successfully used a single trick in FIFA 08. As i've said before, half of what keeps me coming back to those games is that whoever selects the soundtracks knows my taste in music.

One of my biggest grips with FIFA 09 was the wholesale lack of organic player movement. You had three layers in attack. Your strikers would stand inside the 18-yard box, your midfield would stand 10-20 yards off the 18-yard box and never approach it, and your defense would be playing way, way back. Occasionally, your wingers would make runs to drive in crosses that took a absolute age to get into the box, which would feature the fun of watching Didier Drogba and Nemanja Vidic stand in place for 2-3 seconds, patiently waiting for the ball to come down while NOONE ELSE approaches them.

I won't say its fixed, but the "Serious Score" video looks a major improvement.

One of those things I hate about Soccer gaming is that there's so much focus on offense, defense gets totally left out and ends up screwing up the game's flow. I know everyone wants to be Ronaldhino, but Paolo Maldini is famous for all the things he did to prevent people from scoring.

That, and unless you're Cristiano Ronaldo and are obsessed with the tricky stuff, beating your man isn't about a series of ridiculous tricks. A simple change of pace and twist of the shoulders and change of direction usually does it.

Gonna start a new FM game much closer to the LLaMa guidelines but I don't think I can go cold turkey with all the restrictions. Gonna start jobless but make sure the 2-3rd leagues of the major leagues are available so I have some jobs to choose from! Even the MLS will be on!

jowner wrote:

Gonna start a new FM game much closer to the LLaMa guidelines but I don't think I can go cold turkey with all the restrictions. Gonna start jobless but make sure the 2-3rd leagues of the major leagues are available so I have some jobs to choose from! Even the MLS will be on!

By the way: any tips on managing and preparing tactics in lower leagues? I'm buried in deep mid-table with my Cardiff and board wants me to finish in the first ten. (Fortunately club finances were so poor that they finally got another loan [31.5mil debt, yikes] so I got about million pounds to spend on transfers. There are some really great undervalued players in Scotland and Sweden: i.e. Andy Dorman, Peter Lustig; right now I'm trying to buy Niculae, that Romanian guy from Euro 2008, who's worth 600-800k)
I guess I could go with TTF guidelines but I have my tactic and I'm pretty proud that I developed it by myself

Prederick wrote:

Truer words. I don't think I ever even successfully used a single trick in FIFA 08. (...) That, and unless you're Cristiano Ronaldo and are obsessed with the tricky stuff, beating your man isn't about a series of ridiculous tricks. A simple change of pace and twist of the shoulders and change of direction usually does it.

I also never ever got all the right stick mechanics working. They are simply not approachable. It looks like now they're trying to go with more PES-alike dribbling. PES is also making serious improvements in that resort.

There's an interview with Seabass at gametrailers, plus bunchload of videos from Leipzig all over the place, but guys who got to play PES earlier for press/scene previews say that game build they're showing at Leipzig sucks completely, because it seems to be much older than the one they've played so we won't see proper ball physics and some new mechanics in there...
Previews I read from real scene people, not some random journalists, seem to be really positive in terms of actual improvements the game needed: generally it seems to be next-gen PES 5. I'd be very happy with that. Prederick should be happy with some tweaks to AI: now your team mates make runs by themselves, you could pass and don't have to switch to player recieving the pass (you could have done that with semi-fixed cursor in previous PESes) which lets you play some impressive one-twos, defence positioning and balance is said to be improved. Plus much more intelligent dribbling mechanics, which allow more skilled players to do their moves automatically, you just use d-pad to choose direction.
I think I will have good time with new PES this year, and since FIFA doesn't seem to address some of the issues I hate (tricks, player movement off the ball, lack of response when controling player, stupid first touch which makes me lose ball every time I try to turn, yada yada yada) it seems that I will stick with my long-time favourite.

Screw around with your tactics until you find one that works best with your squad. Personally I never mess much with the back 4 its really all about the combination of mid and strikers and mainly if I'm using 2 or 1. From some of the stuff I've also read in 2008 the chemistry factor is fairly huge. So if you think you have an ace formation setup don't give up on it unless your really getting tonked.

A simple way is to just change the formation and go to the assistant ratings.

Started my new game and got bored clicking continue unemployed so I eventually started applying to jobs in Brazil that were popping up although they were maybe 1-2 leagues too high from where I wanted to start. Ended up at Cruzeiro even which sounded amazing but its a strange situation being Brazil theres just an insane amount of great prospects but the money is all limited. eg my transfer budget was 120k and my wages were to 95k total. Pretty decent squad to start especially with Kerlon being on it. Messed around with the tactics until I settled for the classic tactic of 2 in midfield with their arrows coming back to DM and 3 attacking mids lined up right behind the 1 striker. Seems to be working great now as I already had 2 very decent DM
s an ok striker and Kerlon + 2 others in the AM roles to make it all click.

edit: As for the managing side I always find an attacking stud demolishes the Championship. Niculae would be great. Same one that starts in Scotland? Tried to get him in my QPR game and I could for 300k around but of course QPR was apparently not his interest. You will find that is the most frustrating part especially in England. Find a guy ends up not to be interested or find a guy who's just pure class cheap wages and interested but of course hes not on a EU passport and getting a permit is a hell. Argentinians who have an Italian passport are great.

jowner wrote:

Screw around with your tactics until you find one that works best with your squad.

I did screw and now I'm... screwed. It isn't that bad, I play nice football, but I seem to draw and lose too often. Maybe quality isn't there, I don't know.

When I talk about changing tactics, I talk about tactics only, cause I always keep good ol' 4-4-2 cause it's simply the most solid block, which naturally creates triangles between players and isn't too demanding in terms of decision-making and positioning. I'm not sure how to approach passing, ball distribution, possession and number of other things, cause most of my FM 2008 experience is managing Sunderland and Ajax. Also, I concede a lot of late goals and let AI make comebacks, i.e. I led 5-1 with Blackpool only to let them go to 5-4.
So I just keep playing almost exactly the same side week after week and try to make small tweaks. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn;t.

jowner wrote:

edit: As for the managing side I always find an attacking stud demolishes the Championship. Niculae would be great. Same one that starts in Scotland? Tried to get him in my QPR game and I could for 300k around but of course QPR was apparently not his interest. You will find that is the most frustrating part especially in England. Find a guy ends up not to be interested or find a guy who's just pure class cheap wages and interested but of course hes not on a EU passport and getting a permit is a hell. Argentinians who have an Italian passport are great.

Here comes Niculae, bought for 750k (I guess you could get him for about 600, but I was very close to transfer deadline):
IMAGE(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4015/niculaefb9.jpg)
And here's good example of a great, cheap player you won't get your hands on because of work permit, Ze Antonio from Swedish Hacken. Yes, for 35 000 pounds:
IMAGE(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2577/antoniopb1.jpg)

PS: I have almost eliminated Arsenal in FA Cup. It was 2-2 and 1-3 in penalties. Shame.

I think your luck will change after signing Niculae as he really punishes teams in the lower leagues. Honestly I don't do that much work on the sliders. If my team is really talented at attacking I will start the game with the mentality already a notch set to attacking. Once in the game depending how lazy I am I will start tweaking that slider if I have a lead. As for you Blackpool example I could probably of left it the same but after they went to 5-3 I would of thrown on a defender if I hadn't already done so for 5 at the back changed mentality to defensive, clicked on counter attack and even move the defensive line back.

One of my pet peeves is when having a lead for the defensive line to be caught so high up that a guy gets in on a break away and ties the game late or even wins it. It usually happens off something stupid like a goal kick also when in real life you know the the back 4 would be firmly planted on their 18 yard box not the near circle at the half line.

jowner wrote:

I think your luck will change after signing Niculae as he really punishes teams in the lower leagues.

And he gets injured. Pretty. Often.
Argh.
EDIT: He scored 55 yard chip shot just now. Whoa.

jowner wrote:

I think your luck will change after signing Niculae as he really punishes teams in the lower leagues. Honestly I don't do that much work on the sliders. If my team is really talented at attacking I will start the game with the mentality already a notch set to attacking. Once in the game depending how lazy I am I will start tweaking that slider if I have a lead. As for you Blackpool example I could probably of left it the same but after they went to 5-3 I would of thrown on a defender if I hadn't already done so for 5 at the back changed mentality to defensive, clicked on counter attack and even move the defensive line back.

I'm using RoO (rule of one, that is) so tweaking mentality is always major pain in the ass. I guess I will try to go with Rule of Two because it's simpler, and everything simpler seems to serve this team better. I've done most of other tweaking you're talking about, I guess I have to come up with new tactics.

jowner wrote:

One of my pet peeves is when having a lead for the defensive line to be caught so high up that a guy gets in on a break away and ties the game late or even wins it. It usually happens off something stupid like a goal kick also when in real life you know the the back 4 would be firmly planted on their 18 yard box not the near circle at the half line.

Get your marking right, then. You really have to keep your eye on formations screen and make sure that CPU doesn't switch to four strikers or try playing lone pacey striker. Tick tight marking, get closing down to low (when defending you want to keep your formation tight) and set creative freedom for defenders as low as possible. D-line slider should be set as low as possible, but remember: if it's really low, then you're inviting trouble, cause you let them come at you by creating space.
And of course turn time wasting as high as possible.

jowner wrote:

Started my new game and got bored clicking continue unemployed so I eventually started applying to jobs in Brazil that were popping up although they were maybe 1-2 leagues too high from where I wanted to start. Ended up at Cruzeiro even which sounded amazing but its a strange situation being Brazil theres just an insane amount of great prospects but the money is all limited.

Well, most Brazilian clubs are selling clubs in real life, FM allows you the fantasy ability to make them solvent rather than the cash-strapped near-disasters they are in real life. Also, Cruziero? Good lord, I just started anew and i'm at Worcester City (Blue Square North, lowest in England you can go).

Prederick wrote:
jowner wrote:

Started my new game and got bored clicking continue unemployed so I eventually started applying to jobs in Brazil that were popping up although they were maybe 1-2 leagues too high from where I wanted to start. Ended up at Cruzeiro even which sounded amazing but its a strange situation being Brazil theres just an insane amount of great prospects but the money is all limited.

Well, most Brazilian clubs are selling clubs in real life, FM allows you the fantasy ability to make them solvent rather than the cash-strapped near-disasters they are in real life. Also, Cruziero? Good lord, I just started anew and i'm at Worcester City (Blue Square North, lowest in England you can go).

Yea the game is a tad ridiculous on the jobs it will let you get when you start unemployed. Maybe it was the experience set to former International player hahahhaha.

UCRC I signed the Brazilian you linked... Not so great for the Brazilian league level only 2 stars :/ but 60k whatever.

Starting my 2nd season and half my team is wanted by teams in Europe. Between first team, reserves, loaned players, and u20 I had like 60+ players which I've been busy selling off to cut the wage bill and make some funds. Lots of money to be made selling off players but also hard to bring any good ones in as the other clubs are looking to make huge money from Europe.

jowner wrote:

UCRC I signed the Brazilian you linked... Not so great for the Brazilian league level only 2 stars :/ but 60k whatever.

Still, he's seven or eight stars in Championship I guess Assistants are crap.

http://www.footballmanager.net/en/
It's there. And no matter what direction they will go this year, I am already excited.

And by the way: I'm in middle of second season with my Cardiff side, hell of a game. I will make lengthy post about it sometime soon, cause I found case of managing debt-ridden club really fascinating challenge.

Signed up for a preorder of Football Manager Live, which starts in October.

There are 13 'gameworlds' at the moment (servers) - I'm in the Toms one, which I'm guessing is a nod to Kevin Toms, who was the author of the original Football Manager game on the ZX Spectrum, back in the mid-80s. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember buying this and having to expand the memory to a massive 48k in order to play it.

Color me impressed. It'll be buggy as hell when it drops (any game of that scope will be if it wants to be reasonably cutting-edge) but they're making a lot of noises that I like. Of course, i'm not nearly as hard on the series as the continual complainers I see on the SIGames forums (FM 07>FM 08, but 08 is still a pretty solid game) but what I saw made me smile. Here's hoping November comes soon and I can start sinking ridiculous amounts of time into this.

It may be a hell of a fall for Footy fans. FM Live, FM 09, FIFA 09 and PES 09. Looking at that lineup, at least two of which I will be buying near sight-unseen, I may skip watching the real thing to play the fantasy.

I'm not sold on 3D, cause I was a big fan of current game engine which had everything I really needed. I hoped that they will try something completely different, like really huge audio commentary component suplemential to 2D view and I'm surprised at this new direction. But hey, after all it's all running on exactly the same game engine, no matter in what view you try to play in, so we don't have to worry that they will screw it up.
Also, other additions look pretty tempting, especially overhauled transfer mechanics and media relations.
I'm not buying FM Live subscription as for now, cause it would be too expensive for me right now with pound -> Polish złoty conversion rate, but if game turns out to be good I might give it a shot for three or six months. Right now FM 09 seems to be my game of choice.

PS. Prederick, PES dvd got scratched pretty badly but I'm gettin PES 09 on PC and maybe FIFA 09 on X360 and they're out next month, so hopefully we will work something out and finally play some football.

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