League Of Legends Catch All

Jow wrote:

As for the choice of champs, he's already a bit constrained because in the group we play with, one of the guys mains Annie and I main Ashe. He prefers to try someone different just for that reason. I think I might recommend he try Soraka.

Well, that's another problem right there. It's one thing to have a handful of champs you really like/prefer, but you shouldn't be "maining" anyone. There is no persistence on the champ level a la WoW so you don't need to "main".

There are a myriad different "crucial elements" to LoL, but one of the most crucial is learning all the champs. This means you need to be playing all the champs or else you don't know how they really work and how to counter them. Play a few games with Jax and you'll learn how to counter him...b/c you'll get countered!

This is a big reason why Riot switches up the free champs every week. They want to a. make money by exposing people to as many champs as possible and thus drive purchases and b. allow everyone to try every single champ over time without forcing them to spend money.

Let him play Annie, maining be damned. Force him to play a different champ every single game. Force him to play different archetypes too (tank/ad carry/melee/ranged, etc.). Eventually he'll settle on some that he likes and he'll probably be attracted to an archetype or two. Personally, I love ranged AD/AP and support. However, I'm always up to tank or melee DPS, but it's not my strength. I try and play all the champs I've never played every week when they're available for free.

Jow wrote:

Multiple people mentioned coop bot games. We've actually done a lot of these. Basic and beginner difficulty bots are a snoozefest for all of us now (including him) but as a group (with 2 guys even newer than the friend I've been talking about) we were 0-for-5 or so against the intermediates.

PvP. PvP. PvP. It's just so much more fun to play real people and you'll actually get better at the real game - the PvP game - over time. I know it's not all about "getting better" but winning a game against real people is way more satisfying than beating up on the computer. And hopefully your friend will let that satisfaction increase his desire to play.

Someone convince me that Shen isn't utter garbage. Go!

Dude is a ninja.

carrotpanic wrote:

Someone convince me that Shen isn't utter garbage. Go!

Shen is really quite good in high-level play. He has a global ultimate that can turn a fight around. He's really good in that he can split push extremely well.

I don't play him, so I can't really say too much about the specifics of how to play him better.

I don't see him often in normals, and don't like when I do see him. He's really good when played by someone really good, but most people aren't really good.

carrotpanic wrote:

Someone convince me that Shen isn't utter garbage. Go!

He needs a 1v1 top lane in order to farm properly. He is mediocre without a large amount of farm, like most bruisers.

Shen has pretty good AP ratios. Try building a Rylais Crystal Scepter early on.

Keep aware of your teammates, use your ult to counter gank.

Split push a lane away from your team. If a fight breaks out use your ult to get to your team. This allows you to keep a lane pushing without abandoning your team. For example, have your team set up near baron while pushing the bottom lane. The enemy has two options: 1) they contest baron which allows you to ult to your team with bottom lane pushing hard and likely taking a tower OR 2) they send 1 or more people bottom which gives your team free baron

necroyeti wrote:

Dude is a ninja.

with one post and four words, Necroyeti wins the discussion.

Yeah there shouldn't be "maining." When you play without a pre-set group of friends someone else is going to pick your champ. Or when you start playing draft mode someone is going to ban them. Gotta learn some different things.

I feel comfortable with Ashe, Annie, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, Morgana, Singed, Teemo, and Tristana, off the top of my head. I've played at least 7-10 (or for some more like 20+) games with each of them, and could load them up and choose powers and builds without having to check a guide anymore. There's probably 5-10 more champions that I've played 3-5 games with and am trying to learn. You need a variety.

And I still haven't touched jungling, but I'm only summoner 17 or so. Runes are another thing that seem to be strongly recommended for junglers, to take the bite off those first few levels, so I'm waiting until I have runes to try to learn that facet of the game.

_Free_ wrote:

Well, that's another problem right there. It's one thing to have a handful of champs you really like/prefer, but you shouldn't be "maining" anyone. There is no persistence on the champ level a la WoW so you don't need to "main".

I agree with this, but my statement about maining needs to be qualified a little. I think "maining" a character has been an excellent way for me as a new player (only been playing for about a month) to learn a champ and be competent enough to play with other people so I'm not "that guy" who feeds the hell out of the opposing team. The LOL community in general is not very tolerant of new players and honestly, "maining" got me with the program enough that I've never had to deal with that. YMMV.

That said, I am VERY aware of the need to know and understand as many champs as possible. i've started looking forward to my own little "Tryout Tuesdays", where I create custom games on my own and experiment with all of the free champions that I have not had the opportunity to check out. As a result, I've tried a significant number of champs and bought quite a few (17 or 18 now) so that I have a lot of options. Even still, when I hop into games I care about winning, I've chosen Ashe every time. Morgana has now been added to that list, though, and as I get more experience with others I'm sure they'll end up there too.

_Free_ wrote:

PvP. PvP. PvP. It's just so much more fun to play real people and you'll actually get better at the real game - the PvP game - over time. I know it's not all about "getting better" but winning a game against real people is way more satisfying than beating up on the computer. And hopefully your friend will let that satisfaction increase his desire to play.

As a group we are nowhere near ready for PvP. During our last play, one of the guys got really frustrated playing the intermediate bots because of their gold advantage and decided he wanted us to try PvP instead. Bad call I thought but he insisted. This started a 7 or 8 game losing streak over a couple of SR matches and a handful of Dominion matches that was just not even remotely fun. Our games of TT were significantly more fun, however because the new players were able to experience a real PvP atmosphere without being completely outclassed. Until we can at least be competitive against intermediate bots as a group there's no way I'm recommending these guys PvP in randoms.

Jow wrote:

As a group we are nowhere near ready for PvP.

You'll never be ready for pvp if you only play against bots. They are predictable, exploitable, and they'll teach you bad habits if you play against them exclusively. Play bot games until you learn the basic abilities and item builds of a hero, then jump into a regular game and get your ass kicked in pvp until you learn from your mistakes. Just mute everyone if they're giving you a hard time for not doing well.

Or play with us and get some friendly pointers and encouragement

Dyni wrote:

Or play with us and get some friendly pointers and encouragement :)

done. just have to figure out when y'all are on.

Jow wrote:

As a group we are nowhere near ready for PvP. During our last play, one of the guys got really frustrated playing the intermediate bots because of their gold advantage and decided he wanted us to try PvP instead. Bad call I thought but he insisted. This started a 7 or 8 game losing streak over a couple of SR matches and a handful of Dominion matches that was just not even remotely fun. Our games of TT were significantly more fun, however because the new players were able to experience a real PvP atmosphere without being completely outclassed. Until we can at least be competitive against intermediate bots as a group there's no way I'm recommending these guys PvP in randoms.

Is everyone on your team in the same general range of level? if so, this was prob just a strange streak. Matchmaking should pit you against opponents of similar experience, giving you a ~50% win/loss ratio over the longterm.

Also, are you guys communicating using Skype or Vent? If so, I don't how you'd lose 8 in a row unless you're facing really good competition. If you have a team of 4 or 5 in Normal Blind Pick and you're all low level (under 10 or so), you're gonna be facing teams mostly composed of 5 strangers of similar level. Communication will win you a LOT of games against stranger noobs.

I mean, I started PvPing almost right away and had a 50% win/loss ratio. And I was getting worked by Intermediate bots back then too. It was just that the matchmaking found me other noobs who couldn't beat Intermediate bots.

Dyni wrote:

You'll never be ready for pvp if you only play against bots. They are predictable, exploitable, and they'll teach you bad habits if you play against them exclusively.

This. A thousand times this.

Play PvP and take your lumps. You'll get better and better. And so will the competition. Eventually you'll settle into a nice 50% W/L ratio.

_Free_ wrote:

Is everyone on your team in the same general range of level? if so, this was prob just a strange streak. Matchmaking should pit you against opponents of similar experience, giving you a ~50% win/loss ratio over the longterm.

Not remotely. One guy had started playing the night before and one three days before. Another was level 8, one was level 15 or so, and I was level 17 or so. Because of how the matchmaking works we got matched with a bunch of level 17s. It's certainly easy to see why things went so badly. In our first PvP on SR we had a K:D ratio of around 1 to 5 or 6. Subsequent games were not much better. I suspect they would have a better chance if I wasn't in the mix skewing the matchmaking.

_Free_ wrote:

Also, are you guys communicating using Skype or Vent? If so, I don't how you'd lose 8 in a row unless you're facing really good competition. If you have a team of 4 or 5 in Normal Blind Pick and you're all low level (under 10 or so), you're gonna be facing teams mostly composed of 5 strangers of similar level. Communication will win you a LOT of games against stranger noobs.

We were lanning, so four of the five of us were in the same room. We were communicating to some extent, but much of it was me giving the new guys pointers, especially trying to get them to reliably make MIA calls when their opposing laners left the lane.

_Free_ wrote:

I mean, I started PvPing almost right away and had a 50% win/loss ratio. And I was getting worked by Intermediate bots back then too. It was just that the matchmaking found me other noobs who couldn't beat Intermediate bots.

The vast level differences are likely the problem here. As much growth as one might experience from playing in that kind of situation, my desire to be a glutton for such punishment has its limits.

Jow wrote:

Not remotely. One guy had started playing the night before and one three days before. Another was level 8, one was level 15 or so, and I was level 17 or so. Because of how the matchmaking works we got matched with a bunch of level 17s. It's certainly easy to see why things went so badly. In our first PvP on SR we had a K:D ratio of around 1 to 5 or 6. Subsequent games were not much better. I suspect they would have a better chance if I wasn't in the mix skewing the matchmaking.

Ah, OK. Makes much more sense now. Maybe have the 8 and below guys play some games on their own. Then once they get some games under their belt, have them join you. You might lose more games than you win, but it will probably accelerate the development of their skill.

When carrotpanic and I started play LoL, we played with a lot of level 30s in PvP. This was very difficult early on, but it made us a LOT better in a hurry. It was like a sprinter training in the mountains.

Now at level 18, I can hang in most games with guys level 20-30 and sometimes even do well. And that's without runes! /bragging

Huge shout out to the level 30s who dragged around my carcass until I got better. jollyeskimo, Cyranix, NathanielG, and many more!

Jow wrote:
Dyni wrote:

Or play with us and get some friendly pointers and encouragement :)

done. just have to figure out when y'all are on.

We are on all the time. Seriously. All the time. But mostly anytime after work.

makes sense. with some of you having 1,500+ games under your belt I can't imagine it being any other way.

Jow wrote:

makes sense. with some of you having 1,500+ games under your belt I can't imagine it being any other way.

And yet, they still die constantly.

_Free_ wrote:

Huge shout out to the level 30s who dragged around my carcass until I got better. jollyeskimo, Cyranix, NathanielG, and many more!

I can't speak for everyone, but it's as much a learning experience for 30's like myself as it is for others. I've found myself at times having to coordinate team movement/pick up split pushing, and these are things that I've never really had to do before since my team mates usually did it for me.

Oh, and one thing, if anyone notices me getting noticeably grumpy as a game goes on, just ignore me. My play style is super conservative, so I do get irritated extremely easily by very little things like poor positioning.

Also, buy wards.

jollyeskimo wrote:

Also, buy wards.

Needs to be repeated.

I was watching a 5v5 game from Fnatic the other day and they were winning pretty handily, and one of the guys pipes up, "Where are the wards? We need wards here, here, here, and here" (with pings). Then everyone based, bought a ward and placed it in their designated spot. 5 minutes later, 3/4 of the wards had been replaced and they gave the 4th guy sh*t for not having his ward up (this in a game they were also 17/1, 14/1, etc). Wards are ALWAYS important. Every game, you should be buying wards (and, in my case, actually watching the map to make use of the wards).

NathanialG wrote:

I know we have a bunch of new people playing and I just thought I would let them know how to win:

That is soo August 2010.

Nunu Bot will teach you how to win.

He's not just a ninja, he's a flippin' ninja

Definitely agree with the anti-bot folks. Bots are fine for a couple of games to learn the mechanics, or to try out a new hero's abilities, but trying to use them to make you "ready for PvP" probably does more harm than good. Bots encourage the development of bad, greedy habits that will be difficult to break once you take the training wheels off.

I'm having a hell of a time teaching my friend, who played lots of intermediate bot games, that he needs to back out of an exposed position before the danger comes out of the jungle. He always wants to stay and finish farming the wave, because the bots have always been diplomatic enough to come at him from head on rather than behind. Hence he gets ganked regularly and always expresses amazement at how it happened so fast and he couldn't do anything about it. Sure you could have! Pay attention to the minimap and develop your spider sense so you won't be taken by surprise.

pushpushpushpushpush

See, it took me a single "normal" game to glean that, played from back when I was < level 5. I'd had a great time vs. bots with Lux so I decided to take her on the big stage. Early game actually went really well but somewhere along the way I started getting ganked hard by Master Yi. It took me completely by surprise and no amount of ability usage or skill at that level could get me away from it. I ended the round 1/9/8 or so, which isn't bad, all things considered.

I've never forgotten that game. My situational awareness and positioning were improved significantly as a result of that and no number of bot games is going to take that away.

kaostheory wrote:
jollyeskimo wrote:

Also, buy wards.

Needs to be repeated.

I was watching a 5v5 game from Fnatic the other day and they were winning pretty handily, and one of the guys pipes up, "Where are the wards? We need wards here, here, here, and here" (with pings). Then everyone based, bought a ward and placed it in their designated spot. 5 minutes later, 3/4 of the wards had been replaced and they gave the 4th guy sh*t for not having his ward up (this in a game they were also 17/1, 14/1, etc). Wards are ALWAYS important. Every game, you should be buying wards (and, in my case, actually watching the map to make use of the wards).

Needs to be repeated again. Make a habit of buying at least one ward every time you base to shop, or if you die. Got ganked? Put a ward where they came from so next time you'll see them. Lost all your forward turrets? Ward the front of your own jungle so you know when the enemy is entering it. Ward dragon, ward baron, ward, ward, ward. Kaos is right, wards are always important, they can turn a very bad game into a very good game rapidly.

Need to know where are good places to put wards? Read this guide on general warding strategies. Read it, internalize it, make it one with your DNA.

Appreciating the discussion on wards, as a novice player I tend to avoid consumables entirely and stick to a very conservative play style to compensate.

Man played Vayne as Cayne for the first time yesterday SO MUCH FUN!!!

i out dodged Shen on his dash taunt 3-4 times and made him pay the price. And it is awesome tumble > auto attack in air > Big bolt with push effect > Auto attack hit and kill half screen away.

Cayne wrote:

Man played Vayne as Cayne for the first time yesterday SO MUCH FUN!!!

i out dodged Shen on his dash taunt 3-4 times and made him pay the price. And it is awesome tumble > auto attack in air > Big bolt with push effect > Auto attack hit and kill half screen away.

That's why Vayne's my main, Cayne.

oilypenguin wrote:
Cayne wrote:

Man played Vayne as Cayne for the first time yesterday SO MUCH FUN!!!

i out dodged Shen on his dash taunt 3-4 times and made him pay the price. And it is awesome tumble > auto attack in air > Big bolt with push effect > Auto attack hit and kill half screen away.

That's why Vayne's my main, Cayne.

You're so vain when you lane.

carrotpanic wrote:
oilypenguin wrote:
Cayne wrote:

Man played Vayne as Cayne for the first time yesterday SO MUCH FUN!!!

i out dodged Shen on his dash taunt 3-4 times and made him pay the price. And it is awesome tumble > auto attack in air > Big bolt with push effect > Auto attack hit and kill half screen away.

That's why Vayne's my main, Cayne.

You're so vain when you lane.

Ain't no shame in your game.