Dragon Age 2 - Catch All

Redwing wrote:
NathanialG wrote:

Fenris is so Final Fantasy I wonder what he is doing in this game.

I never really considered it, but he really is isn't he?

I mostly avoided using him, the combination of his voice actor and personality constantly made me want to punch him.

Irony?

Anyway, I can see all that, but he reminded me more of a Rifts character--the magical tattooed men of Atlantis, slaves to the mighty Splurgorth /nerd. Apologies to Mz. Krigger, but he was my mage's squeeze because it seemed likely to be full of delicious torment, I thought it'd be a neat challenge to balance, and it just fit my magelady's need to redeem magic in they eyes of others and her strict discipline (she managed not to use blood magic, so no one else has an excuse).

Aw, dude though, Balthier is awesome <_>

Bioware really is becoming a joke. I miss the days of Baldur's Gate.

Man, I can't wait to replay DA 2 — been salivating for it lately...

I don't think it's Bioware becoming a joke, if you define "Bioware" as what it was pre merger (well, there's DA2, but what developer doesn't have an off day?) then I'd say the old core is still there, at least for the development side. In addition you've got modern trends that are affecting everyone, if they were still independent, they would still have to get their money from somewhere, and money talks.

Post-merger, I think the main problem is EA diluting the brand and pushing it's policies and strategies, and that Muzyka/Zeschuk have integrated themselves fairly deeply into EA. I think that's a long term thing starting from when Elevation partners (and by extension, Riccitiello) owned Bioware and then brought them under the umbrella when be came back as EA CEO.

You've not got a range of studios hanging the Bioware name above their door, a flash/facebook developer (San Francisco/EA2D), an MMO developer (Austin/Mythic) and a support centre in Ireland. Then you've also got the new game they teased at Spike (new studio) and whoever is doing DA multiplayer.

Yawn - I think we've heard this all before.

davet010 wrote:

Yawn - I think we've heard this all before.

A stunning contribution.

I'm now trying to piece together any clues about what their new game is, that's getting properly revealed on the 10th.

No, merely a statement of fact.

Scratched wrote:

You've not got a range of studios hanging the Bioware name above their door, a flash/facebook developer (San Francisco/EA2D), an MMO developer (Austin/Mythic) and a support centre in Ireland. Then you've also got the new game they teased at Spike (new studio) and whoever is doing DA multiplayer.

Well it wouldn't be the first time that EA pretty much gutted/restructured a studio for the brand label alone. Maxis is basically a shell of what it used to be once they pulled The Sims team out and gave them their own label. A chunk of the QA work on Darkspore was handeld by Bioware. Bullfrog was mostly bought for... what? The IP (which they didn't do much with) and the name? Same with Origin and Westwood.

My guess is that they plan on using Bioware as a label (similar to EA Sports) for branding all their RPG and Strategy games going forward, if the rumors about a new C&C game being unveiled at the VGAs are true.

I dislike EA's practice's as much the next guy, but I think I burned through my supply of angry internet man rage on them earlier this year. I just roll my eyes and go "oh you guys" and continue to ignore them these days.

shoptroll wrote:
Scratched wrote:

You've not got a range of studios hanging the Bioware name above their door, a flash/facebook developer (San Francisco/EA2D), an MMO developer (Austin/Mythic) and a support centre in Ireland. Then you've also got the new game they teased at Spike (new studio) and whoever is doing DA multiplayer.

Well it wouldn't be the first time that EA pretty much gutted/restructured a studio for the brand label alone. Maxis is basically a shell of what it used to be once they pulled The Sims team out and gave them their own label. A chunk of the QA work on Darkspore was handeld by Bioware. Bullfrog was mostly bought for... what? The IP (which they didn't do much with) and the name? Same with Origin and Westwood.

My guess is that they plan on using Bioware as a label (similar to EA Sports) for branding all their RPG and Strategy games going forward, if the rumors about a new C&C game being unveiled at the VGAs are true.

I dislike EA's practice's as much the next guy, but I think I burned through my supply of angry internet man rage on them earlier this year. I just roll my eyes and go "oh you guys" and continue to ignore them these days.

Totes McGotes. Ultimately I am not disappointed in EA - I kind of expect it of them. I am, however, a bit saddened by the Doctors.

shoptroll wrote:

I dislike EA's practice's as much the next guy, but I think I burned through my supply of angry internet man rage on them earlier this year. I just roll my eyes and go "oh you guys" and continue to ignore them these days.

That's the thing with so many games these days under old names (X-com, rainbow6/ghost recon, etc). you've got to look at the game itself, not just blindly buy it because of the name/brand.

shoptroll wrote:

Well it wouldn't be the first time that EA pretty much gutted/restructured a studio for the brand label alone. Maxis is basically a shell of what it used to be once they pulled The Sims team out and gave them their own label. A chunk of the QA work on Darkspore was handeld by Bioware. Bullfrog was mostly bought for... what? The IP (which they didn't do much with) and the name? Same with Origin and Westwood.

Interestingly, they are all studios that are now dead or ruined. And Bioware is going down the same path. As far as I am concerned, Bioware is pretty much close to dead to me.

davet010 wrote:

No, merely a statement of fact.

And it is a fact. The Bitching Exhaustion referred to earlier stems directly from...well, sorry to say, but the circle we see drawn here. I understand the drive to comment, but, really: social games, pre-orders, consolizations, Bioware's dead, we've been here, we've done that, ad nauseum. Every leak or preview brings out some combo of of these comments, which, fair enough, live as you please, but when the same drum gets beaten for over a year, expect to get some eye-rolls eventually.

Blind_Evil wrote:

Aw, dude though, Balthier is awesome <_>

Werd. Mofo's a sky pirate--it's impossible for him to not be awesome.

Personally I was a fan of Bioware before they sold out and started making Dungeons and Dragons branded games. Shattered Steel is when Bioware was on top. I mean that game had like five separate worlds with twenty missions each, that's more worlds than both Mass Effect games put together. Baldur's Gate was just a money grab, I'm sure TSR wrote them a fat check to make that game.

Latrine wrote:

Personally I was a fan of Bioware before they sold out and started making Dungeons and Dragons branded games. Shattered Steel is when Bioware was on top. I mean that game had like five separate worlds with twenty missions each, that's more worlds than both Mass Effect games put together. Baldur's Gate was just a money grab, I'm sure TSR wrote them a fat check to make that game.

Hipster.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

Interestingly, they are all studios that are now dead or ruined. And Bioware is going down the same path. As far as I am concerned, Bioware is pretty much close to dead to me.

I think it is a bit early to say this, they haven't actually put out anything bad yet. Maybe stuff that you weren't into or didnt like, but nothing that has been poorly made.

NathanialG wrote:

I think it is a bit early to say this, they haven't actually put out anything bad yet. Maybe stuff that you weren't into or didnt like, but nothing that has been poorly made.

I'm with you. I have been up and down ehhh with them (Dragon Ages up, Mass Effects ehhh), but to claim they are a joke, dead, etc. is akin to saying Bioshock 2 is a sh*t game and an insult to the franchise, which has been said here, everywhere. It's a fine game. If you think it's terrible, what you're bringing into the game is most likely clouding the issue.

I've said this in the past with regards to Bioware: I'd rather an 8.5 or 9 game out of them every year than a 10 every five years.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I've said this in the past with regards to Bioware: I'd rather an 8.5 or 9 game out of them every year than a 10 every five years.

Given how big my pile is and how many great games are coming out every year I actually disagree.

gregrampage wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

I've said this in the past with regards to Bioware: I'd rather an 8.5 or 9 game out of them every year than a 10 every five years.

Given how big my pile is and how many great games are coming out every year I actually disagree.

I can see where pile issues would make you feel that way, totally. It doesn't apply to me, though. I just give up on games that I don't think I'll finish <,<

Pile-dumping, I call it. I wish I could call it pile-driving, but that'd make no sense.

Say hello to Bioware Sacremento.

NathanialG wrote:

I think it is a bit early to say this, they haven't actually put out anything bad yet. Maybe stuff that you weren't into or didnt like, but nothing that has been poorly made.

I'd put Jade Empire into the mediocre bin. I did end up finishing it, so it can't have been that terrible, but the fighting was weak and I can't remember anything else about it.

Scratched wrote:

Say hello to Bioware Sacremento.

Dear EA: When you buy a studio, you get their brand's reputation. If you work hard to uphold that reputation, people will continue to love games with that brand, and trust that brand to be associated with great stuff. If you water it down by naming every new acquisition you make with the brand, people very quickly notice--and at that point, not even the stuff that really *is* worthy of the brand is trusted any more. Good job.

Hypatian wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Say hello to Bioware Sacremento.

Dear EA: When you buy a studio, you get their brand's reputation. If you work hard to uphold that reputation, people will continue to love games with that brand, and trust that brand to be associated with great stuff. If you water it down by naming every new acquisition you make with the brand, people very quickly notice--and at that point, not even the stuff that really *is* worthy of the brand is trusted any more. Good job.

You think? I don't know. Me and you, we know better. We know BioWare Sacramento isn't responsible for Mass Effect.

Other companies do the same thing and still do alright. God of War games do well despite nearly everything SOE does being terrible. You get 50+ terrible Ubisoft games a year, but Assassin's Creed (mainly by Ubisoft Montreal) does gangbusters so far.

Point is, the people that pay attention to the developer on the box and not the publisher most likely know the difference between development studios in the same company. I didn't hold the ridiculous facebook/flash games against Dragon Age, the reportedly terrible iPhone thing against Mass Effect, etc.

I can't say this for sure because I have never viewed the game industry from anything but a serious enthusiast standpoint: at 10 I knew that Secret of Evermore was American made nonsense, not associated with Secret of Mana like Squaresoft would have liked me to believe.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I didn't hold the ridiculous facebook/flash games against Dragon Age, the reportedly terrible iPhone thing against Mass Effect, etc.

Hey now, DA: Journeys was a good bit of fun and actually interesting to play unlike Legends.

I played through Journeys once or twice, but was only doing so for the sake of rewards. I wouldn't have played the game more than half an hour or so without the hooks to the real DA:O.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Hypatian wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Say hello to Bioware Sacremento.

Dear EA: When you buy a studio, you get their brand's reputation. If you work hard to uphold that reputation, people will continue to love games with that brand, and trust that brand to be associated with great stuff. If you water it down by naming every new acquisition you make with the brand, people very quickly notice--and at that point, not even the stuff that really *is* worthy of the brand is trusted any more. Good job.

You think? I don't know. Me and you, we know better. We know BioWare Sacramento isn't responsible for Mass Effect.

Other companies do the same thing and still do alright. God of War games do well despite nearly everything SOE does being terrible. You get 50+ terrible Ubisoft games a year, but Assassin's Creed (mainly by Ubisoft Montreal) does gangbusters so far.

Point is, the people that pay attention to the developer on the box and not the publisher most likely know the difference between development studios in the same company. I didn't hold the ridiculous facebook/flash games against Dragon Age, the reportedly terrible iPhone thing against Mass Effect, etc.

I can't say this for sure because I have never viewed the game industry from anything but a serious enthusiast standpoint: at 10 I knew that Secret of Evermore was American made nonsense, not associated with Secret of Mana like Squaresoft would have liked me to believe.

Your examples are all publishers (sort of), so in this case the relevant party would be EA not Bioware.

I do think Bioware is one of the few developers that actually have a reasonable reputation/brand and I completely agree that they are watering it down. That said, I don't think it will be that bad though, it will be like the Final Fantasy series. There's the main games (i.e. Mass Effect/Dragon Age) and then there's the spin off crap and most people have a decent understanding of the differences.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Redwing wrote:
NathanialG wrote:

Fenris is so Final Fantasy I wonder what he is doing in this game.

I never really considered it, but he really is isn't he?

I mostly avoided using him, the combination of his voice actor and personality constantly made me want to punch him.

Irony?

Whoa. I just played these games pretty much back to back and I didn't even realize this was the same guy.

Speaking of Dragon Age related videos, check this one out!

I have to say, of all the complaints people are having from the trailers for the Dragon Age anime... the music has become my biggest turn off has become the music.

Mantid wrote:

I have to say, of all the complaints people are having from the trailers for the Dragon Age anime... the music has become my biggest turn off has become the music.

I didn't even know they were making a DA anime. Looks pretty rad to me, but I'm not shocked. Nerds don't like when other sorts of nerds horn in on their turf.

Blood on all the faces? Check.

It's Dragon Age alright. I like the style they're going for.