NCAA Football 11 Catch-All

Grumpicus wrote:
Running back porn. ;)

Better, but I think this may be a case of something getting closer to looking real and then the mistakes are suddenly more glaring. Speaking from experience, when you're pulling from the guard position you're taking the first open defender in the gap. Period, full stop. You don't have time to figure out who you'd normally block and you don't care. So in this case he should have taken the outside linebacker.

However, the reality is that this play is off because the guard gets to the gap before the fullback. In reality the middle linebacker probably crashes the hole quicker, the fullback picks him up and the guard gets the outside linebacker. The middle linebacker waits to long. It looks weird. And the way the guard and fullback are side by side and the guard does a 45 degree left turn into the middle linebacker is strange.

I know that's knit picky, but I mention it more because I find it funny that while the blocking is improved it also highlights the things that are off. Kind of like how in Bioware RPGs the unblinking stare of characters is strange since the characters are so well characterized otherwise.

Given the category of bugs in NCAA, but how much closer it is gameplay-wise it will be interesting to see how Madden turns out.

EDIT: Now the last video, where the lineman chips the DT and then moves off the double-team is beautiful.

Funny you should mention that about the guard and fullback, as I was thinking pretty much the same thing (though my experience is on the other side of the ball) but nevertheless, it was still enough of an upgrade to merit linking.

ETA: As for the MLB moving too slow, who knows? Maybe Ray Lewis would have been in there but London Fletcher's AWR or ACC rating is too low. Of course, scheme can be a factor as well.

Grumpicus wrote:
Funny you should mention that about the guard and fullback, as I was thinking pretty much the same thing (though my experience is on the other side of the ball) but nevertheless, it was still enough of an upgrade to merit linking.

Indeed. Thanks for posting that. I wouldn't have found that as I don't frequent sites like that.


ETA: As for the MLB moving too slow, who knows? Maybe Ray Lewis would have been in there but London Fletcher's AWR or ACC rating is too low. Of course, scheme can be a factor as well.

Well, he makes his move so late. That's what's weird. I think he would make his move first, at least putting him in the gap before the MLB who would pause in case he had to contain outside, and thus the fullback would get the MLB and the guard would get the OLB. Either way, though, it only looks odd because it's so damn close.

DSGamer wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
Running back porn. ;)

EDIT: Now the last video, where the lineman chips the DT and then moves off the double-team is beautiful.

That's what I wanted to mention, the last two videos, where the linemen double team then move off for blocks... great stuff.

Interesting. The EA NCAA football blog has an extended post about their upcoming strategies for fixing some issues in the game. It's an interesting read in which he discuss the complexity of modern football video game code...he notes it's no excuse for getting some things obviously wrong, but just wants to lay out the scale of the problem.

The writer ("Roy") notes that the second update (after the launch day one) will fix the play action bug and make uniforms get dirty again. Yeah? He says the title update should come in mid-August.

He also notes that they have to ability to fine tune a lot of the variables in the game using their new "live tuning packages." It sounds like they're master software "sliders" that can be used through small downloads within the game to adjust the way the game plays without resorting to a full title update. This includes adjusting things like recruiting logic, LB interceptions, etc. "Roy" says to look for the first tuning package next week.

I've clipped a bit of the tuning package info out below. The rest of the blog entry is actually quite an interesting read, and relatively forthcoming. Whoever actually wrote it is a good writer. The way it is written certainly encourages one to give them some leeway and instills some confidence that we'll get some fixes not too far from now.


A number of you have already noticed that we do a check for "Online Gameplay Tuning" when connecting to our online servers. Some of you may also have found a new "Tuning" category in the Files menu. This is a new technology for NCAA Football 11 that allows us to not only live update and tune core gameplay parameters -- like fumbles, throw accuracy, and juke success ratings -- but it also allows us to rebalance certain core features such as recruiting logic, blocking, even control the intensity of shadows cast by the football on a sunny day!

These new Live Tuning Packages (LTPs) contain literally 1000's of key parameters which drive the heart of our game; parameters that live well below the level of specific player or team ratings. With our new LTPs we can often turn changes around in a few days. It can't solve everything, and some issues will still require a traditional client update, but for many items it's definitely a more powerful and faster strategy for tuning throughout the season.

Our first LTP should be arriving next week along with detailed notes on what the update contains. I can tell you that based on the collective feedback we've received, we will be carefully down-tuning the athleticism of defensive lineman and reduce the number of impressive picks by the big guys. We're also looking to address a few important dynasty progression and recruiting issues.

By the way, I loved this comment about the incoming adjustments on OperationSports:

In one glorious week, everything will be perfect... we'll have kickers that can kick it from the 30 again, and it will rain Big Macs and the air will smell like the cleavage of a 19 year old coed...

firesloth wrote:
By the way, I loved this comment about the incoming adjustments on OperationSports:
In one glorious week, everything will be perfect... we'll have kickers that can kick it from the 30 again, and it will rain Big Macs and the air will smell like the cleavage of a 19 year old coed...

I literally LOL'd. Nice.

Sounds to me like "live tuning packages." are glorified config files. Whee!

Grumpicus wrote:
Sounds to me like "live tuning packages." are glorified config files. Whee!

If they'd just make the games on PC, we could fix this sh*t ourselves.

Random internet guy #43294392 would have had a new config file out 2 weeks ago instead of 2 weeks from now.

Stele wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
Sounds to me like "live tuning packages." are glorified config files. Whee!

If they'd just make the games on PC, we could fix this sh*t ourselves.

Random internet guy #43294392 would have had a new config file out 2 weeks ago instead of 2 weeks from now. :shock:

No kidding! But, I've mostly given up on PC gaming in favor of my Xbox...

firesloth wrote:
Stele wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
Sounds to me like "live tuning packages." are glorified config files. Whee!

If they'd just make the games on PC, we could fix this sh*t ourselves.

Random internet guy #43294392 would have had a new config file out 2 weeks ago instead of 2 weeks from now. :shock:

No kidding! But, I've mostly given up on PC gaming in favor of my Xbox...


Heretic!

I'm kind of interested to know WHAT exactly qualifies as "roughing the passer" in this game. Because my QB's been hit so long after passing he's nearly heading to the showers and there's no flag.

And I have been called on the inverse -- pretty phantom calls for roughing the passer. What I like about this game compared with the last Madden is that it doesn't go overboard on some things, notably late hits. I thought Madden 10 was very overly sensitive with respect to late hits.

Man, though, the player switching is not right all the time. I'm controlling a D-lineman, and another one breaks free. I push the button, expecting to switch to him so I can dive for the QB. Instead, it switches to the SS before the QB lets go of the ball. Subsequently I dive him to the ground, and the QB launches the ball long for a score. Ugh.

firesloth wrote:
Man, though, the player switching is not right all the time. I'm controlling a D-lineman, and another one breaks free. I push the button, expecting to switch to him so I can dive for the QB. Instead, it switches to the SS before the QB lets go of the ball. Subsequently I dive him to the ground, and the QB launches the ball long for a score. Ugh.

Really, i'm noticing a healthy bit of QB-ESP. When the AI quaterback gets rid of the ball just as you hit him. And despite the fact that you're hitting him as he's releasing the ball, still manages to throw a 50 mph pass 25 yards downfield, across his body exactly where only the wideout can catch it.

Mind you, I can do essentially the same thing. Would it really be so terrible for EA to really mean it when they say "set your feet before passing for the best accuracy", or are they totally committed to this semi-arcade style of play?

Man, the coaches in the coaches poll are a hard bunch. Season 2 of my dynasty with ND: I lost the 1st game and then went on an 11 game run including the GMAC bowl (yeah?). Ended up ranked #11. Okay; I lost a game. My schedule was okay, but not as strong as some others.

Graduate some good players, mostly on offense. Keep my 91 rated QB, stud sophomore RB, 95+ ranked kicker, 97 rated OLB. WRs are all excellent; LBs are pretty good. CBs are weak. Lines could be better, but they're not bad.

Third year. Schedule is an A- with USC, Michigan, MSU, Pitt, Baylor, Utah, Stanford on the schedule. The only real easy games are likely to be Purdue, Navy, Army.

Start the season ranked #15. Beat Purdue handily week 1. Week 2 I'm ranked #14 going up against #2 Michigan (who hasn't played a game yet). Crush them 37-7 (threw an INT to a DL on my first offensive play...otherwise a shutout).

So, going into week 3 against #7 Michigan State, I'm ranked #11 and Michigan is #10. WTF?? I could see not giving me a huge bump, but at least put me higher than Michigan!! Hopefully things will improve significantly if I beat MSU.

Prederick wrote:
Mind you, I can do essentially the same thing. Would it really be so terrible for EA to really mean it when they say "set your feet before passing for the best accuracy", or are they totally committed to this semi-arcade style of play?

Yeah; you can usually get away with just flinging it as you're going to the ground. I have seen some of these plays, certainly. But, I've also seen a number of plays where the D-lineman is close to the QB, and he rushes the throw, tossing it over the receiver's head (or to my CB!). It certainly does give you a lot of leeway to throw before getting sacked. Usually if you do it late, it will just fall short. As I mentioned above, though, I tossed a ball while in a defensive player's arms earlier, and an opposing D-lineman caught it and rumbled for a score. Nice! (Well, except for my virtual QB...)

What difficulty are you playing on?

I think it largely depends on the QB, as well. My two scrubs at QB certainly do better if I stop and plant before throwing. I find that often the ball sails in the direction I am scrambling. But between the two, Kale Pick is the scrambler with more speed and agility. I can get away with far more scrambling than if I go with back-up Jordan Webb, who is more of a pocket passer.

EA doesn't model the differences between the QB's nearly as well as we saw in 2K8, but I think their ratings do have some effect on how well they can pull off throws. there are many, many games where I fail to complete 50%. But it would be cool if the QB's felt more significantly different to control.

I will have to look at my sliders. I am using some AA sliders from OS. Maybe I have QB Accuracy really low. Have you guys tried adjusting sliders when not getting good results. I have found them to be pretty darn responsive this year.

Here is what I am using. All I modified from what Silent Nature posted is the FG and Punting, which he had ridiculously low. But otherwise, I'm getting some great games with these sets. The penalties seem to be pretty close in number, even if some things still don't get called often enough. I've have two PI calls in the entire season.

I'm planning to try these out with some better teams to see how well they feel. Kansas is probably gong to be bad this season, so my brutal season may have been appropriate. If I take Alabama and struggle, then I will have to some adjusting.

v4.3 brings a hybrid of v1.3 and v3.1 together! Speed Threshold is now at 25. Hopefully, this will be the best base set to use. This is now considered as a base slider set, which basically means that it is fine for permanent use, but still open to possible tweaks, if needed to meet your skill level. We have to consider that EA Sports may adjust the Tuner Sets, which could cause changes with this slider set.

Personal Preferences
Auto Sprint: Off
Auto Strafe: Off

Gameplay Options
Skill.........................All American
Injuries.....................On
Fatigue.....................On
Quarter Length...........7 minutes
Play Clock..................On
Game Speed...............Normal
Speed Threshold..........25
HFA Effect..................On
Ice the Kicker..............On

Game Rules
Offsides........................95 - (Not much offsides, but with Gameplan on Aggressive, you should have more!)
False Start....................95 - (Not much false starts, but with Gameplan on Aggressive, you should have more!)
Holding.........................50 - (Not much holding, but with Gameplan on Aggressive, you should have more!)
Facemask......................50 - (Occasionally called, but Aggressive will get more for trying to strip the ball.)
O Pass Interference........100 - (Should always be called, if it happens)
D Pass Interference........100 - (Should always be called, if it happens)
KR/PR Interference..........100 - (Should always be called, if it happens)
Clipping.........................55 - (Occasionally called, but Aggressive Blocking will get more clipping.)
Intentional Grounding.......100 - (Should always be called, if it happens)
Roughing the Passer.........100 - (Possible to get away with it, but can be easily called, if it happens)
Roughing the Kicker.........100 - (Should always be called, if it happens)

Custom AI (HUM/CPU)

QB Accuracy...................30-30
Pass Blocking..................50-60
WR Catching...................50-50
RB Ability.......................50-50
Run Blocking...................25-85
Pass Coverage................45-75
Pass Rush......................45-55
Interceptions..................15-30
Rush Defense..................25-70
Tackling.........................40-45 - (Look for more gang tackles rather than big hits!)
FG Power........................50-20
FG Accuracy...................50-55
Punt Power......................50-45
Punt Accuracy.................50-75
KO Power........................25-45

That's always what has bothered me about the option plays in the college games.

The QB runs to the right, in between three defenders and gets hit, but somehow manages to flip the ball over to the RB, perfectly in stride from 25 feet away.

I have seen that toss be picked off, but not as often as it should be. That sort of play should probably result in an errant toss at the very least, if not an out right fumble. But instead it actually seems to work at unusually high percentages.

I agree, but I'm willing to suspend my belief enough to accept it. I have had enough fumbles and intercepted pitches that I can live with the game giving me a bit of a break.

It's interesting how this latest gen of sports games have ushered in another form of the uncanny valley. When the graphics were much less realistic it was so much easier to accept that we had to fill in the gaps with what we see on the screen.

I'm on AA as well. I gave SN's sliders a try a while ago, and got awfully frustrated, not because SU was bad, just the feel of the play. Perhaps it's APF spoiling/biasing me, but in recent years i'm feeling like, despite all the ratings-stretch promises, EA games aren't doing enough to delineate the cream of the crop from everyone else. I'd actually argue that NCAA should be more APF-like in terms of ratings, because the best of the best are that much better in college, and on their day, can be all but unstoppable.

I mean, last year, Ndamukong Suh was a defensive line all by himself. I feel like I could create a DT, make him 99 at everything, and he wouldn't be half that dominant when he (arguably) should be and then some.

Also, the "Impact Player" thing needs to die. Now. It should've died with NFL Blitz. That's what the ratings are for, all it really seems to serve to do is to make that 76-rated HB suddenly have a MONSTER game against A-rated defenses.

Prederick wrote:

I mean, last year, Ndamukong Suh was a defensive line all by himself.

Holy sh*t:

Alabama D-Line
98 Tkl, 23.5 TFL, 9.5 Sk, 20 QBH, 5 PBU, 0 Int, 1 FF, 3 Blk
Florida D-Line
112 Tkl, 33 TFL, 14 Sk, 48 QBH, 5 PBU, 0 Int, 1 FF, 0 Blk
Texas D-Line
116 Tkl, 25.5 TFL, 15.5 Sk, 10 QBH, 7 PBU, 0 Int, 2 FF, 0 Blk
Ndamukong Suh
82 Tkl, 23 TFL, 12 Sk, 24 QBH, 10 PBU, 1 Int, 1 FF, 3 Blk

I'm on AA as well. I gave SN's sliders a try a while ago, and got awfully frustrated, not because SU was bad, just the feel of the play. Perhaps it's APF spoiling/biasing me, but in recent years i'm feeling like, despite all the ratings-stretch promises, EA games aren't doing enough to delineate the cream of the crop from everyone else. I'd actually argue that NCAA should be more APF-like in terms of ratings, because the best of the best are that much better in college, and on their day, can be all but unstoppable.

Well, agreed. Isn't there something of a fix for this with speed? Does the min speed slider do what I think it does, allowing for greater separation between the various speed ratings? That still doesn't help the skill that one has to have to be a Suh.

firesloth wrote:
Well, agreed. Isn't there something of a fix for this with speed? Does the min speed slider do what I think it does, allowing for greater separation between the various speed ratings? That still doesn't help the skill that one has to have to be a Suh.

That's ostensibly what more ratings stretch in every category would cover.

I don't think EA's had any trouble representing the marquee, OSU v. Alabama kind of matchups, they do that fine. The problem becomes when you're playing OSU v. Middle Tennessee State and it still feels like you're playing Iowa or Wisconsin, et cetera.

Prederick wrote:
I'm on AA as well. I gave SN's sliders a try a while ago, and got awfully frustrated, not because SU was bad, just the feel of the play. Perhaps it's APF spoiling/biasing me, but in recent years i'm feeling like, despite all the ratings-stretch promises, EA games aren't doing enough to delineate the cream of the crop from everyone else. I'd actually argue that NCAA should be more APF-like in terms of ratings, because the best of the best are that much better in college, and on their day, can be all but unstoppable.

I've been trying SN's sliders as well, but things haven't been going well. I can't seem to get any pressure with my DLine while the CPU is getting to much pressure with theirs. Playing through my UW dynasty I've won a tight game at BYU and then lost in OT to the 'Cuse at home. Both games I've had to come back in the 2nd half after being completely dominated in the 1st half.

I'm in the process of working through some testing using the 4.3 sliders with a boost to HUM FG and Punt accuracy. I'm using E. Michigan (60 OVR), Kansas State (78 OVR) and Bama (99 OVR) with KSU as the home team. I will be playing as the visiting team with each team and then will play as the host team against the three different visiting teams. So far I've been dominated as KSU 0 @ KSU 26 and won a close one as Bama 14 @ KSU 10 so I think I definitely need some slider adjustments.

Prederick wrote:
Also, the "Impact Player" thing needs to die. Now. It should've died with NFL Blitz. That's what the ratings are for, all it really seems to serve to do is to make that 76-rated HB suddenly have a MONSTER game against A-rated defenses.

So true, but I think they have made gains though from the defensive side of things. I no longer wince each time a CPU IP defensive player makes a tackle, you know which animation I'm talking about too. In years past it would be a coin flip, sometimes a weighted coin at that, as to whether the IP def player would rip out a fumble.

Apparently the live tuning pack has been released. A blog detailing the changes...

Redhwk wrote:
I've been trying SN's sliders as well, but things haven't been going well. I can't seem to get any pressure with my DLine while the CPU is getting to much pressure with theirs. Playing through my UW dynasty I've won a tight game at BYU and then lost in OT to the 'Cuse at home. Both games I've had to come back in the 2nd half after being completely dominated in the 1st half.

Same. I'll check my settings later tonight, but I know I had to tweak that because not only wasn't I getting enough (any) pressure on the AI, but with QB accuracy above a certain point, it seems to enable the QB-ESP I loathe so much, where he'll constantly throw lasers for a 1st just as he's getting hit.

Redhwk wrote:
Prederick wrote:
Also, the "Impact Player" thing needs to die. Now. It should've died with NFL Blitz. That's what the ratings are for, all it really seems to serve to do is to make that 76-rated HB suddenly have a MONSTER game against A-rated defenses.

So true, but I think they have made gains though from the defensive side of things. I no longer wince each time a CPU IP defensive player makes a tackle, you know which animation I'm talking about too. In years past it would be a coin flip, sometimes a weighted coin at that, as to whether the IP def player would rip out a fumble.

Oh god, I remember two years ago, when if you even ran anywhere near an Impact MLB, he would strip the ball. This year seems really odd, I just resarted my SU Dynasty, and beat Akron 35-7, but we fumbled four times. It can be a little wonky.

A sidenote - has anyone else noticed the incredibly lazy method EA uses sometimes to lower a player's overall rating? Where all of his physical attributes will be fine, but Awareness (still a nebulous and indefinite rating in my book) is at 47? I kind of hate that.

Running a Double post to the corner of the end zone.

Well, it certainly looks like they made some serious improvements. Looking forward to giving this a spin. The tuning files actually worked pretty well for NHL 10, so I'm pretty hopeful that this will be a nice way for the team to get improvements out to the customers without having to wait for patches.

But you have to wonder if they actually understand the issue.
IMAGE(http://ll-100.ea.com/cem/u/f/GPO/easports.com/NCAA_Football_11/LiveTune/2.jpg)

So the results are improved from before. But if you look at this table, every single team is still worse six years later. They are not as bad as before, but the slide is still there. They do mention that the slide should not continue, because at this point, all of the teams are purely based on created prospects, so the average should remain consistent. It definitely looks improved according to this table:
IMAGE(http://ll-100.ea.com/cem/u/f/GPO/easports.com/NCAA_Football_11/LiveTune/3.jpg)

They don't say what year they are taking this from, but I will assume it's 2017, since that is the last year in the previous table. If that holds, I can live with and overall decline, as long as we still see a nice distribution of good and bad schools.

I am a bit confused by this statement:

The Awareness of a player does NOT affect his ability to Run Routes, Play Defense, or Block. Each of those have their own ratings that drive how good the player is:
- Route Running (RTE)
-Defense: Zone Coverage (ZCV), Man Coverage (MCV), Play Recognition (PRC) and Pursuit (PUR)
-Blocking: Run/Pass Block Footwork (RBF, PBF), Run/Pass Block Strength (RBS, PBS). And the assignment each player gets is based on the offensive play vs. the defensive play.

What exactly does Awareness affect, then? It would have been nice to finish this thought. In fact, I wish more developers would put more time into explaining how ratings work and interact with other players for all games.