Shogun: Total War 2 Catch All thread

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Looks like Creative Assembly is going to the well once again. Or in this case the sacred watering hole of Amaterasu.

Shogun: Total War 2 more here.

Sorry if this has already been set up. But if not, well, thoughts future Daimyos?

Budo wrote:

But if not, well, thoughts future Daimyos?

I try to have thoughts about this news, but they keep getting drowned out by my brain going "awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome" over and over again at the thought of this game. I can't wait for it.

Nope, I think I only mentioned it in the random thing I love thread - and I'm really looking forward to it. I haven't had a computer that's been up to date for a while, so the last TW game I played was Rome, but Shogun was amazing for its time. Once I get a new device, I'm jumping on this!

The other thread of conversation was that it would be amazing if there was a TW game set in China during one or more of the really war-y periods of history.

All right! I was waiting for someone to make a catch-all. Shogun was my favorite in the Total War series. I think this was because it was a bit simpler and quicker than the later titles. It sounds like they are going to keep this part of it for Shogun 2 from what I read on IGN. Empire and Napoleon can get a bit overwhelming to the point where I don't have the time to invest in the game.

Oh yeah, I can't wait for more Ninja/Geisha assassination videos.

I don't know. The Total War brand has gotten a little stale and overdone, so unless they really, really improve on the AI or do something to shake-up the combat in Shogun 2, I'm not going to get too excited about it.

Rat Boy wrote:

I don't know. The Total War brand has gotten a little stale and overdone, so unless they really, really improve on the AI or do something to shake-up the combat in Shogun 2, I'm not going to get too excited about it.

IGN's article had some really interesting tidbits about the AI. It's going to be completely modeled after Sun Tzu's Art of War. I dunno if they did that before. I rarely ever read preview articles, but this one grabbed me and I read the whole thing.

Honestly, though, I could just go for a re-skinned version of the first game... it's been a long time since I've played it.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

I don't know. The Total War brand has gotten a little stale and overdone, so unless they really, really improve on the AI or do something to shake-up the combat in Shogun 2, I'm not going to get too excited about it.

IGN's article had some really interesting tidbits about the AI. It's going to be completely modeled after Sun Tzu's Art of War. I dunno if they did that before. I rarely ever read preview articles, but this one grabbed me and I read the whole thing.

Honestly, though, I could just go for a re-skinned version of the first game... it's been a long time since I've played it.

I wonder how one turns a line like "Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley" into computer programming.

Edit: Snarkiness aside, after reading the IGN preview I'm not totally cold on this anymore. Another problem I've had with the Total War series post Rome is that the scale kept growing and growing in terms of the "global" situation. Sounds like Shogun 2 is a return to the series' roots beyond the setting. Still, if AI units still get stuck trying to attack a settlement, forget it.

I never played Shogun, so this is interesting. But I won't do the day one thing for a Total War game until they work out the bugs.

I do hope that they have decent combat AI.

Hopefully they do Rome 2 next.

I don't know. The Total War brand has gotten a little stale and overdone, so unless they really, really improve on the AI or do something to shake-up the combat in Shogun 2, I'm not going to get too excited about it.

I don't know about *stale*, but unless they start putting some serious effort into QA I'm going to be waiting on this one.

Of course, I say that about every TW game and buy them anyway.

The scariest part from the article:

The unique nature of Asian architecture has a profound impact on sieges. The stacked pagoda structures of Japan allow sieges to play out in stages, with attackers and defenders moving from wall to wall and from tower to tower. This gives both sides of a battle more options than simply waiting for a hole to appear in the outer defenses and then just cramming as many men as possible around it. Each castle will have five levels of construction as well, so there's an increasing level of choice and sophistication as you advance. What's even more intriguing is the team's suggestion that castles will have unique qualities based on whether they're built in the mountains, on the plains, or by the sea.

CA has never had wall pathfinding right. NEVER. So they decide to multiply it by 5?

<-- cynic here.

Minase wrote:

Of course, I say that about every TW game and buy them anyway.

I finally started to resist them. I managed to skip Napoleon. And this one will have to work really hard to get me to change my mind. I felt swindled by CA one too many times to fall for it, yet again.

I finally started to resist them. I managed to skip Napoleon. And this one will have to work really hard to get me to change my mind. I felt swindled by CA one too many times to fall for it, yet again.

I haven't bought Napoleon yet either - still waiting for a $5 steam sale or something similar. If nothing else, my PC's rapid obsolescence may save me from this one.

Squee! Shogun was the game that got me hooked on the TW series (although I didn't get into Medieval 1 that much and still haven't bought Napoleon - something about the ages in which gunpowder is widespread doesn't appeal to me as much).

I love the Sengoku-era Japan setting, but as previously mentioned, I hope that one day we'll see a Three Kingdoms-era China or perhaps a Total War remake of Bandit Kings of Ancient China (aka The Water Margin), since it doesn't seem to be coming from Koei.

In Shogun 1, although I loved dominating my opponents by simply placing rows of gunpowder units up a hill and having them mow down the approaching divisions, I really pray CA fixes that particular AI weakness to make battles a bit more challenging.

I've been hoping for a return to Shogun, although I can't say I'm excited about CA's recent track record.

Yeah, it's not exactly Rome 2 (which you have to be a plebian not to expect at some point), but this one had to happen eventually. I always thought Shogun 2 was more likely than a China/3 Kingdoms version.

So, it looks like CA has pretty much decided they will stick to what works for them (like Firaxis with the Civilization model), and I'm totally cool with that. Hey, in the end CA is a business, so I understand their need to develop a title more likely to produce income. I also like that this will pull the scale back from the good-but-overinflated Empire: TW to something much more manageable.

Also, just watching the awesome calligraphy preview, I forgot how incredibly atmospheric the music from the original Shogun was. That is definitely a strong point of all the Total War games, that hypnotic background soundtrack on the strategy screen.

I think that they did get a bit ambitious with scale in Empire. I do want to get to it one day, but the patching it needs, ugh. Apparently Napoleon fixes most of the Empire issues.

I like that they are going to smaller scale conflicts again. After some patching I will get this, and when Rome 2 comes I will likely be all over it. That's my favourite period in history.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

I think that they did get a bit ambitious with scale in Empire. I do want to get to it one day, but the patching it needs, ugh. Apparently Napoleon fixes most of the Empire issues.

I like that they are going to smaller scale conflicts again. After some patching I will get this, and when Rome 2 comes I will likely be all over it. That's my favourite period in history.

Napoleon was much better than Empire from a buggy standpoint. It was also a tighter, less-overwhelming game.

Anybody know of a good place to pick up Shogun Total War 1? Steam doesn't have it for some silly reason, and who knows where my discs went. I think I'll be in the mood for a bit of that game... or maybe I'll just play some more Napoleon.

I'm interested. I think Shogun was the first TW game I played, and definitely the one I've spent the most time with. I didn't purchase of the latest TW games until they were on sale for ~10$. Good thing too, because I've barely played any of them.

Shogun 2 might be a completely different story for me though...

Rat Boy wrote:

I don't know. The Total War brand has gotten a little stale and overdone, so unless they really, really improve on the AI or do something to shake-up the combat in Shogun 2, I'm not going to get too excited about it.

This is exactly what I was thinking. They also need to make buildings more useful instead of your group of guys glitching out as they try to climb up a wall on a fort, etc. There's no sense of control once the battle gets to a building.

Loved the first Shogun so really looking forward to the sequel! More varied battle landscapes, tiered castle warfare etc.

Every game released by CA has promised better AI, and none delivered it. The upside with the new version of Shogun is that they (should) be including the campaign multiplayer option from Empire Total War, where you can have a friend play the AI in the battles.

Having had the opportunity to LAN it with a couple of people, the quality of the game changes dramatically when the field battles become an equal fight.

Also, be prepared for bugs, lots of bugs. Every new feature promised will likely be buggy.

(wasn't too pleased with the IGN article. It's basically a publicity piece written by CA.)

I'll buy it.... I always do...

Jupiter's c*ck! I was really hoping Rome 2 would be the next one, but I guess it makes sense to go back to their older one first. I managed to resist Empire and Napolean and I'm happy firing up Rome or Medival2 to get my TW fix when the itch needs to be scratched. Unless this one exceeds all expectations and everyone is gushing about it, I'll probably just wait a bit longer. I mean, Rome 2 has got to be next, right? Riiight?

Vega wrote:

Jupiter's c*ck! I was really hoping Rome 2 would be the next one, but I guess it makes sense to go back to their older one first. I managed to resist Empire and Napolean and I'm happy firing up Rome or Medival2 to get my TW fix when the itch needs to be scratched. Unless this one exceeds all expectations and everyone is gushing about it, I'll probably just wait a bit longer. I mean, Rome 2 has got to be next, right? Riiight?

Don't you know the pattern since Rome? First, new setting with new engine. Next, old setting with new engine. See:

Rome
Medieval 2
Empire
Shogun 2

Next we'll get a new setting with a new engine thing and then Rome 2.

Each TW release has thrown better graphics and even more content than the last at us. Compared to all competitors, Empire is head and shoulders and waist and ankles above everyone else for sheer stuff crammed into one game. But CA never did figure out AI or Siege pathfinding.

If they go back to a smaller-scale Shogun and spend that development time on the AI and pathfinding, I will be very very happy.

Doug wrote:

Compared to all competitors, Empire is head and shoulders and waist and ankles above everyone else for sheer stuff crammed into one game. But CA never did figure out AI or Siege pathfinding.

If a restaurant can't figure out how to cook the main dish properly, then it should stop burying the customers under side orders.

Empire killed my TW love. I think Rome was probably where they peaked for me, although I still enjoyed the remake of Medieval.

The French were my Boron in Medieval II and Empire. I do not remember enough from my Japanese history class to pick a group to hate with any passion.

Why couldn't this have been set in China?!

Grubber788 wrote:

Why couldn't this have been set in China?!

Look on the bright side: ninjas!

Vega wrote:

Jupiter's c*ck!

I love that series, I must buy it. I could watch it every week.

Rat Boy wrote:
Doug wrote:

Compared to all competitors, Empire is head and shoulders and waist and ankles above everyone else for sheer stuff crammed into one game. But CA never did figure out AI or Siege pathfinding.

If a restaurant can't figure out how to cook the main dish properly, then it should stop burying the customers under side orders.

They can screw up my steak provided they throw unlimited yam fries at me, any day.

But that was my point, I'd like it if they put their assets towards their core AI and pathfinding. I seem to remember the old 2D Shogun and Medieval being cleverer than the modern versions (nostalgia?). Rome is when the series hit awesome yet stupid simultaneously.

Flash of Steel has some great points of view on whether this sequel will be a good or bad thing. I'll probably buy it and slap it on the pile, but since Empire cooled my jets a bit on CA, it will be a day 1 purchase that I'm finally aware may lead to some disappointment.
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